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Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW


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Jake played his best game of the tournament.  He elevated his compete level and was very effective on the fore-check and with the puck.  He was a victim of the European style of reffing. Only one of his penalties even comes close to getting called in the NHL where he has been playing all year.  Not an excuse as he was not as disciplined as he should have been but Jake was picked because he fits Benning's model of what it takes to be successful in the NHL not the WJC.

I am sure Jake is feeling very low right now and Benning made the right call in announcing he would return to the big club right away.  I am not sure if JB intends to keep Jake up but sending him to juniors immediately after that last game could destroy the kids confidence for the rest of the year at least. 

 

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You can't just send him down, you will literally crush his confidence. The best way to do it is let him screw up in a game and then send him down. I would give him a chance to redeem himself, and think of his mental mind-set, at-least guys like Burrows, Higgins or Prust can tell him, "its okay kid" whereas, in the juniors he might be hearing it, since they are kids. 

I think Benning shouldn't send him down directly, but wait and see what he brings. Who knows and yes this is my inner homer speaking, maybe he rips it up and overcomes adversity.

Also, a guy like Willie can help him out at a time like this, sending him down directly won't be smart. Let him mess up and then send him down. edit, and one more thing those two penalties which one of those are actually called in the NHL? first one was a puck battle and second was a slash were the player just dropped his stick give me a break.

Edited by desiboynux4lifee*******
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The thing that bodes well for Jake, and Canucks fans, is that he can still be an affective player in the NHL when he isn't scoring. He is a agitating, fast and heavy hitting player. He can easily become a Chris Kreider.

In a tightly officiated IIHF tournament, doesn't work so well. He probably would of gotten away with 75% of his penalties in the NHL. Support and patience is going to go a long way with him. 

No excuses for this tournament for him tho, needs to be better. But the roof definitely isn't caving in for him. 

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5 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

Armchair scouting, much like the armchair Gm thread.   I like trying to identify what I see in a player and maybe Im right and maybe im wrong.   Watching Jake the last year and a half I have seen nothing from him that leads me to believe he will be anything more than a 4th line winger at best.  Yep sure I'm probably wrong and for the sake of the Canucks I hope I am too.

If I am breaking any rules please let me know.  

That's ok....not breaking any rules at all (which is why I responded vs taking "action" of any sort...wasn't warranted).  We're here to discuss and there is no right/wrong in this.

It's just that making decisions on a 19 year old after a year and a half of surveying him may not be considering that, in overall development, he's still got some time to prove what he is/isn't.  Those saying "all his fault" and labelling him a bust probably should consider that it's a team game and coaching very much comes in to play with young players.  That's all.  Carry on...nothing wrong with presenting all of our ideas.

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7 minutes ago, Dutch_Canuck said:

The thing that bodes well for Jake, and Canucks fans, is that he can still be an affective player in the NHL when he isn't scoring. He is a agitating, fast and heavy hitting player. He can easily become a Chris Kreider.

In a tightly officiated IIHF tournament, doesn't work so well. He probably would of gotten away with 75% of his penalties in the NHL. Support and patience is going to go a long way with him. 

No excuses for this tournament for him tho, needs to be better. But the roof definitely isn't caving in for him. 

Well said and a great observation.

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Or perhaps a trade.Hes a quality kid with good upside.Maybe a conversation with Columbus about Johansen.A package of some sort.Im not getting into what that entails but quality for quality should be the start of the conversation.We've watched the shell that this team has become and they need more than Jake to help this rebuild.Especially at 1st line center.The pressure on Virtanen basically playing in his hometown and with his struggles right now(especially after a brutal WJC) aren't going to help him improve much in Vancouver.Eventualy,probably.I believe Columbus will at least listen to the Canucks if they start with him.For  the tank crowd,with the way the NHL brass really doesn't like the Canucks,if you think the team finishes in a place to get the first  or second overall they will get it, you are delusional.There is no way in hell that its a random draw for who gets what.I'll always believe that the league has input for the draft order.Otherwise why not make it  public draw?But I digress.

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3 minutes ago, cowboy644 said:

Or perhaps a trade.Hes a quality kid with good upside.Maybe a conversation with Columbus about Johansen.A package of some sort.Im not getting into what that entails but quality for quality should be the start of the conversation.We've watched the shell that this team has become and they need more than Jake to help this rebuild.Especially at 1st line center.The pressure on Virtanen basically playing in his hometown and with his struggles right now(especially after a brutal WJC) aren't going to help him improve much in Vancouver.Eventualy,probably.I believe Columbus will at least listen to the Canucks if they start with him.For  the tank crowd,with the way the NHL brass really doesn't like the Canucks,if you think the team finishes in a place to get the first  or second overall they will get it, you are delusional.There is no way in hell that its a random draw for who gets what.I'll always believe that the league has input for the draft order.Otherwise why not make it  public draw?But I digress.

I think McCann is showing he has the ability to be a strong 1c. He may not be Henrik but he clearly has the talent. I think people are overestimating our need at C now. With McCann as a 1c and Bo 2c, we really aren't hurting there anymore.

In fact, if we drafted Matthews (if we were so lucky and bad lol) or traded for Johanssen (who clearly has work ethic issues- dont think I;d want him), we'd actually have a bit of an issue in my view. Bo is going to be too good to be a 3c and McCann is a 1 or 2c regardless as well. None of those players you want on the wing.

We really need a great/ franchise level #1 dman (doughty type) before a C in my view. I'd rather see us move him to Philly (if we ever entertain the idea for someone like Provorov).

Edited by McCannon
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A world Junior tournament does NOT define what a player will become in the NHL. That's all I'm saying. 

 

Instead of bashing the kid when his confidence is at an all time low I would assume. Us Canucks fans should support him. You haters a re ridiculous.

Edited by CANUCK-EXPRESS
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34 minutes ago, cowboy644 said:

Or perhaps a trade.Hes a quality kid with good upside.Maybe a conversation with Columbus about Johansen.A package of some sort.Im not getting into what that entails but quality for quality should be the start of the conversation.We've watched the shell that this team has become and they need more than Jake to help this rebuild.Especially at 1st line center.The pressure on Virtanen basically playing in his hometown and with his struggles right now(especially after a brutal WJC) aren't going to help him improve much in Vancouver.Eventualy,probably.I believe Columbus will at least listen to the Canucks if they start with him.For  the tank crowd,with the way the NHL brass really doesn't like the Canucks,if you think the team finishes in a place to get the first  or second overall they will get it, you are delusional.There is no way in hell that its a random draw for who gets what.I'll always believe that the league has input for the draft order.Otherwise why not make it  public draw?But I digress.

I think this is an issue.  People want "a saviour" and it's not as simple as [Insert Player].

But we also have to allow for players to "unfold" one way or another without thinking we have to exchange them without time to adequately assess things.  There will be pressure on any players who come here....the bar was set fairly high (we have been a top team) and to get back there won't be easy.

What we need is players who are completely invested and play hard.  Motivated and passionate about playing.  That's step number one....to have the overall mindset that coasting will not be accepted.  That every single guy needs to bring it every shift every game.  Doesn't matter where you're ranked.

That mistakes can be worked around if the effort is there.  And learning from them happens.  So basically, if there is talent there that it isn't enough...the work ethic has to still be there. 

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Before some you guys get too wound up about Jake's performance keep this in mind : Trevor Linden had 1 pt in 7 games  in his WJC in 1988 and Cody Hodgson had 16 points in 6 games back in 2009. Who would you say has had a bigger impact in the NHL?

Im going to panic if Jake is 23 or 24 and he is putting up 4th liner points.  Thats like 4 or 5 years from now. Kid clearly needs some development, but lets not write him off please.  Look at Baertschi, hes 23 and lots are still willing to give him a mile of rope.

 

 

Edited by Darius71
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I remember hearing Benning say somewhere (probably on tsn 1040) that they expect Jake to be a Chris Kreider-like player in the future. I rarely watch the rangers and I think I have only seen Kreider play twice. 

How accurate is this comparison? How similar was Jake to Kreider at the same age, in terms of development, skill, and etc.? 

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 I am a fan of  the  playing in  the the NHL as a 19 year old then go down for a year in the AHL at 20 development path, it worked absolute wonders for Bergeron, I also expect Virtanen to have a very solid offensive campaign in the AHL as he will have more timing and be used to a higher level of competition.

Do not worry to much this year, give it 2 or 3 before you worry.

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1 minute ago, logic said:

 I am a fan of  the  playing in  the the NHL as a 19 year old then go down for a year in the AHL at 20 development path, it worked absolute wonders for Bergeron, I also expect Virtanen to have a very solid offensive campaign in the AHL as he will have more timing and be used to a higher level of competition.

Do not worry to much this year, give it 2 or 3 before you worry.

Bergeron only went to the AHL because of a lockout. He was already a proven NHLer with 39 points in 71 games.

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8 minutes ago, Darius71 said:

Before some you guys get too wound up about Jake's performance keep this in mind : Trevor Linden had 1 pt in 7 games  in his WJC in 1988 and Cody Hodgson had 16 points in 6 games back in 2009. Who would you say has had a bigger impact in the NHL?

Im going to panic if Jake is 23 or 24 and he is putting up 4th liner points.  Thats like 4 or 5 years from now. Kid clearly needs some development, but lets not write him off please.  Look at Baertschi, hes 23 and lots are still willing to give him a mile of rope.

 

 

Exactly!! As I mentioned in a post above Kesler was supposed to be at best a 3c when drafted (and don't forget he played in the AHL), Burr never supposed to make the AHL, when he got here, never supposed to be more than a checker, so many examples.

With Jake, we can honestly all say he's got better tools than both of those names (Burr probably had better game sense but not Kes other than the defensive side), so the point is, players D-E-V-E-L-O-P over time. The nucks have a gem, they just need to develop him properly, but he wants to learn, wants to be a difference maker, and when you have the tools, if you have the desire usually you can make it happen.

I too will evaluate what we have when he's had 3-4 years in the NHL - that's when we can say well he's likely only this or that, and what his ceiling really is.

Part of what people don't realize either is JB is building a TEAM. Jake even if he tops out as a 20 goal guy, can still be a HUGE factor on a second line. Fast, powerful, hitter, forechecker, gets in on top of dman, creates fear and panic that a truck is coming = turnovers - remember what Ferland did? Is Jake better than Ferland, yes he will be. I see no issue with a second line of Baer Horvat and Jake in the future, in fact I quite like that.

Add in Milan Lucic next year to teach this kid how to play his role (which I am betting we do), and he'll be fine

Edited by McCannon
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3 minutes ago, Darius71 said:

Before some you guys get too wound up about Jake's performance keep this in mind : Trevor Linden had 1 pt in 7 games  in his WJC in 1988 and Cody Hodgson had 16 points in 6 games back in 2009. Who would you say has had a bigger impact in the NHL?

Im going to panic if Jake is 23 or 24 and he is putting up 4th liner points.  Thats like 4 or 5 years from now. Kid clearly needs some development, but lets not write him off please.  Look at Baertschi, hes 23 and lots are still willing to give him a mile of rope.

 

 

I feel most of CDC (myself included) expected Virtanen to excel in phyisicity and add in timely offence.. The only thing that worries me right now about Virtanen is his hockey IQ, the only way to improve that is to play a lot of hockey at a higher level than junior.. Utica should be his home right now, because he is strong enough and can develop offensively in a hard gritty game. 

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