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Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW


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6 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

agreed. Jake is with the Canucks to stay for this year. next season. it depends on how he shows for training camp. might need to be sent to the AHL. and that would be an option for him to work on his game with Green. 

Yes, and not a horrible thing, with Gaunce and Shinkaruk nearing readiness and Rodin a strong possibility. Depth of yutes up front is looking good.

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7 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

agreed. Jake is with the Canucks to stay for this year. next season. it depends on how he shows for training camp. might need to be sent to the AHL. and that would be an option for him to work on his game with Green. 

Why would he be sent down to 'work on his game with Green"?  He isn't a liability on the ice, he is getting more and more chances each game, he has more and more shifts that he dominates possession in the offensive zone, and he brings something no other Canuck brings : size to go with his speed, and the power to go around guys.  He also hits a ton, and next year he will be bigger and stronger.

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I think Jake is eligable to play in Calder Cup Playoffs becuase of his conditioning stint. So if the Canucks miss and the Comets make it I would think he gets some games down there considering he has missed quite a few.

He may need to be papered down again, but that can only happen once the Hitmen are done too.

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2 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said:

Why would he be sent down to 'work on his game with Green"?  He isn't a liability on the ice, he is getting more and more chances each game, he has more and more shifts that he dominates possession in the offensive zone, and he brings something no other Canuck brings : size to go with his speed, and the power to go around guys.  He also hits a ton, and next year he will be bigger and stronger.

Possibly because he might get more minutes in Utica. If guys like Gaunce and Shinkaruk outplay him in camp, then it won't be a bad idea for him to spend some time in Utica.

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People keep bringing up his Corsi like he's suddenly the best Canuck on the ice. Right now, IMO, he doesn't bring enough to the table to deserve a roster spot. 

I'll admit his defensive game has improved since the WJC but he still doesn't do enough for this team. Generating the odd chance per game, scoring 2 goals in half a season and hitting is not enough in my books considering the guys we have in Utica who can do FAR more.

For example, Shinkaruk could easily out-produce him offensively, play just as well defensively and he can also kill penalties. 

Gaunce again could easily out-produce him offensively, he's an even bigger body so brings the element of a screen, is a great PKer as well and is showing his versatility and can play center too. 

What I just don't understand is why we would rush someone like Virtanen who is obviously going to be a later bloomer and needs more time to develop when we've got Shinkaruk and Gaunce who have done EXACTLY that. Why are we breaking the mould of the normal trend and progression of development? Because Jake was a #6 pick? Because management and coaching staff are being pressured to play the teenagers?

Whatever the reason, it's not the right one. Look at Detroit for how you develop young guys - grow them through junior, send them to the AHL, then slot them into the NHL. Right now we're taking the rushed path of the Oilers and are dangerously close to breaking Jake's development. 

Gaunce for one brings everything and more to the Canucks than Jake brings so don't dare say "Jake hits harder and is more suited to the 4th line role" because Gaunce can do exactly that, PLUS put up more offence and play on the penalty kill.

Don't kid yourselves - Jake isn't on the Canucks because he's the best player for the role. There are a LOT of other reasons and they're not for the best interest of this hockey club.

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9 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

 

Don't kid yourselves - Jake isn't on the Canucks because he's the best player for the role. There are a LOT of other reasons and they're not for the best interest of this hockey club.

You're right about there being other reasons for why Jake is playing in the NHL...His Jr. situation, his marketing appeal and because every prospect is different, he seems to need a little more attention.  

If he were able to play in the AHL that is where he would be...but he can't so He's on the big club.  I think TL and JB are managing this asset beautifully.

Your posts in this thread give me a reason to live.

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2 minutes ago, NEON.KNEE said:

You're right about there being other reasons for why Jake is playing in the NHL...His Jr. situation, his marketing appeal and because every prospect is different, he seems to need a little more attention.  

If he were able to play in the AHL that is where he would be...but he can't so He's on the big club.  I think TL and JB are managing this asset beautifully.

Your posts in this thread give me a reason to live.

Could the plan for Jake include a stint in Utica, once he's eligible? 

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Just now, Alflives said:

Could the plan for Jake include a stint in Utica, once he's eligible? 

That's what I said above...I think unless he's lights out in training camp he will start in the AHL...oh wait...I self edited my post...my lengthier thought was that he will start in the AHL.

I'm a huge fan of how this team is being managed right now.  Now if only the team could learn to do a clean line change with hustle, I'd be 100% happy.

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1 minute ago, NEON.KNEE said:

That's what I said above...I think unless he's lights out in training camp he will start in the AHL...oh wait...I self edited my post...my lengthier thought was that he will start in the AHL.

I'm a huge fan of how this team is being managed right now.  Now if only the team could learn to do a clean line change with hustle, I'd be 100% happy.

I wonder if McCann is in Utica next season too?  Or is the marketing of these young players on the big club too important to the bottom line?

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39 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I wonder if McCann is in Utica next season too?  Or is the marketing of these young players on the big club too important to the bottom line?

It all depends on how many players are ahead of them on the depth charts. McCann has a lot of competition right now, so I can see him being sent down for some time next year.

Jake does not have that problem right now. He already stole Prust's job. We'll see how much Benning spends on that RW position, because Prust and Vrbata are not staying here.

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1 minute ago, Canucks Prophet said:

It all depends on how many players are ahead of them on the depth charts. McCann has a lot of competition right now, so I can see him being sent down for some time next year.

Jake does not have that problem right now. He already stole Prust's job. We'll see how much Benning spends on that RW position, because Prust and Vrbata are not staying here.

I don't disagree at all, but I am wondering what other posters have pointed out might be influencing JB's decision on these guys too:  Are the young guys being on the big club part of selling tickets?

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14 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I don't disagree at all, but I am wondering what other posters have pointed out might be influencing JB's decision on these guys too:  Are the young guys being on the big club part of selling tickets?

has to be, no? Selling hope to the fanbase, after veterans play has been deteriorating for years now. 

Torts was right. This team has had a stale core. Some vets should stay with the club. Other veterans should be moved out, for prospects. There needs to be new blood on this team (which there is, slowly being introduced). 

More on the way next season, I am sure..

Shink and Gaunce? 

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6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I don't disagree at all, but I am wondering what other posters have pointed out might be influencing JB's decision on these guys too:  Are the young guys being on the big club part of selling tickets?

I think so but I think that both of them would have likely been sent to the AHL if they had been eligible.  I think that the bottom line is important to JB, but I think he sees the big picture and being able to control how his prized prospects are developed means more to him as he knows if he can turn the team into a real winner again soon money will be the last of there problems.

I would guess next year they will have to play there way onto and keep there jobs in the NHL much more then this year as JB will be able to control there development in Utica also. 

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19 minutes ago, Canucks Prophet said:

It all depends on how many players are ahead of them on the depth charts. McCann has a lot of competition right now, so I can see him being sent down for some time next year.

Jake does not have that problem right now. He already stole Prust's job. We'll see how much Benning spends on that RW position, because Prust and Vrbata are not staying here.

I could see McCann and Virtanen starting the year in the AHL, to be honest (next season). I think working with Green may be good for their progression, UNLESS, of course, they are lights out at training camp and in pre-season. Then management may be forced to keep them up. But management can send Jake and Jared down to the AHL next season anytime. So if they feel like it's better for their development to be down in the farm team, and get top six minutes in all situations - then they will be there. They can be (if I'm not mistakened) called up anytime after that during the season. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Could the plan for Jake include a stint in Utica, once he's eligible? 

Wouldn't surprise me, if they did, so that he could develop even more physically and what not (unless he does that in the off-season, and comes back beastmode). 

 

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Just now, thrago said:

I think so but I think that both of them would have likely been sent to the AHL if they had been eligible.  I think that the bottom line is important to JB, but I think he sees the big picture and being able to control how his prized prospects are developed means more to him as he knows if he can turn the team into a real winner again soon money will be the last of there problems.

I would guess next year they will have to play there way onto and keep there jobs in the NHL much more then this year as JB will be able to control there development in Utica also. 

That's what I think too, but I wonder if the balancing act of developing a Cup level team, and keeping the owner's pocket book satisfied keeps JB from really doing what HE KNOWS is best for the kids?

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1 minute ago, Alflives said:

That's what I think too, but I wonder if the balancing act of developing a Cup level team, and keeping the owner's pocket book satisfied keeps JB from really doing what HE KNOWS is best for the kids?

I don't think that the pocket book is effected next year because if Virt and McCaan don't make the team Shinkerak and Guance likely do and I'm personally just as excited about the later as I am the former.  For me watching the youth come up is the most exciting thing to happen since 2011.  I personally felt that after the loss in 2011 that the team needed more youth and after some pretty bad Playoff showings leading up to 2011 that that was probably our one kick at the can with that core so when we went 3 more years without really much changing I was losing interest in the team.

The youth movement has really sparked my interest in the team again.  I'm sure I'm not the only one and for me as long as I keep seeing that they are developing and giving the young guys an honest chance I'll keep watching.

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13 minutes ago, thrago said:

I don't think that the pocket book is effected next year because if Virt and McCaan don't make the team Shinkerak and Guance likely do and I'm personally just as excited about the later as I am the former.  For me watching the youth come up is the most exciting thing to happen since 2011.  I personally felt that after the loss in 2011 that the team needed more youth and after some pretty bad Playoff showings leading up to 2011 that that was probably our one kick at the can with that core so when we went 3 more years without really much changing I was losing interest in the team.

The youth movement has really sparked my interest in the team again.  I'm sure I'm not the only one and for me as long as I keep seeing that they are developing and giving the young guys an honest chance I'll keep watching.

I love seeing the young kids too.  I feel like the old group is done (their window closed) and I want to look forward to the future.  Is our future best developed in the AHL than here though?  Is JB playing these kids here simply as a marketing ploy to help offset the losses during a re-build?  

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3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I love seeing the young kids too.  I feel like the old group is done (their window closed) and I want to look forward to the future.  Is our future best developed in the AHL than here though?  Is JB playing these kids here simply as a marketing ploy to help offset the losses during a re-build?  

I think Both. I think that its a marketing ploy and I think he believes that they will develop better here.  If they are on the team next year pretty sure they earned it as there is other youth that can replace them and draw ticket sales. 

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16 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

People keep bringing up his Corsi like he's suddenly the best Canuck on the ice. Right now, IMO, he doesn't bring enough to the table to deserve a roster spot. 

I'll admit his defensive game has improved since the WJC but he still doesn't do enough for this team. Generating the odd chance per game, scoring 2 goals in half a season and hitting is not enough in my books considering the guys we have in Utica who can do FAR more.

For example, Shinkaruk could easily out-produce him offensively, play just as well defensively and he can also kill penalties. 

Gaunce again could easily out-produce him offensively, he's an even bigger body so brings the element of a screen, is a great PKer as well and is showing his versatility and can play center too. 

What I just don't understand is why we would rush someone like Virtanen who is obviously going to be a later bloomer and needs more time to develop when we've got Shinkaruk and Gaunce who have done EXACTLY that. Why are we breaking the mould of the normal trend and progression of development? Because Jake was a #6 pick? Because management and coaching staff are being pressured to play the teenagers?

Whatever the reason, it's not the right one. Look at Detroit for how you develop young guys - grow them through junior, send them to the AHL, then slot them into the NHL. Right now we're taking the rushed path of the Oilers and are dangerously close to breaking Jake's development. 

Gaunce for one brings everything and more to the Canucks than Jake brings so don't dare say "Jake hits harder and is more suited to the 4th line role" because Gaunce can do exactly that, PLUS put up more offence and play on the penalty kill.

Don't kid yourselves - Jake isn't on the Canucks because he's the best player for the role. There are a LOT of other reasons and they're not for the best interest of this hockey club.

 

Straight from the horses mouth here's Jim Benning explaining it. Starts at about 13:15

 

He's right it does sound strange. But what it does is speed up the rebuild by at least a year. Are you somehow unaware that we are rebuilding? The fact that McCann and Virtanen are able to compete in the NHL at 19 is impressive and they are continuing to improve. I just don't see how it hurts the long term development of the players or the team. The team will likely add 3 of Shinkaruk, Gaunce, Grenier and Pedan next year, and continue to build from within. It's amazing that you haven't put 2 and 2 together yet and continue to sing the same old song.

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  • -Vintage Canuck- changed the title to Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW
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