Popular Post Toews Posted July 16, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted July 16, 2016 2 hours ago, J-Dizzle said: The Sedins were also spoon fed offensive zone starts and power play time. On a completely different note (and not pertaining to the above quoted) the negativity some people insist on directing Jakes way is almost unbelievable. If he sucks in two or three years fine go for it, but for the love of donuts give him some time before you throw him under the bus. This isn't a knee jerk reaction. Virtanen's play has been for the most part underwhelming for two years now. He hasn't shown enough progress compared to some of his peers. This doesn't mean that he won't be a useful player but the expectations need to be tempered. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Dizzle Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 30 minutes ago, Toews said: This isn't a knee jerk reaction. Virtanen's play has been for the most part underwhelming for two years now. He hasn't shown enough progress compared to some of his peers. This doesn't mean that he won't be a useful player but the expectations need to be tempered. I'd say I'm interested in which players you're referring to but Id be lying as I have no interest in rehashing the same 'Nylander' and 'Ehlers' arguments we've seen over the past two years. It's way to early in the game to write Jake off or exult a number of the other players in his draft year. Yeah his development hasn't Been off the charts but it's been far from terrible as well. I stand by my earlier statement. Give it another couple years. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 8 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said: I'd say I'm interested in which players you're referring to but Id be lying as I have no interest in rehashing the same 'Nylander' and 'Ehlers' arguments we've seen over the past two years. It's way to early in the game to write Jake off or exult a number of the other players in his draft year. Yeah his development hasn't Been off the charts but it's been far from terrible as well. I stand by my earlier statement. Give it another couple years. I am not referring just to Nylander and Ehlers but the way other players in the same draft year have progressed. I always see this being said every time there is a discussion about Virtanen, "It's too early". It was the same thing said about Kassian as well. I don't think it's ever too early to evaluate progress. You look at the progress that Demko and Boeser have made and anything that Jake has done pales in comparison. If I had to rank the youngsters in terms of value moving forward, I would have Jake behind the above names as well as Bo, Juolevi and Hutton. The only one he would be above is Baertschi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 (edited) 52 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said: I'd say I'm interested in which players you're referring to but Id be lying as I have no interest in rehashing the same 'Nylander' and 'Ehlers' arguments we've seen over the past two years. It's way to early in the game to write Jake off or exult a number of the other players in his draft year. Yeah his development hasn't Been off the charts but it's been far from terrible as well. I stand by my earlier statement. Give it another couple years. Nobody on these boards are writing Jake off. I think the general consensus here is that Virtanen hasn't been the greatest for the past 2 years as a 6th overall pick. Last year, many of us, including me, let him off the books cause he was coming off a shoulder injury which required surgery. He didn't even play bad considering what he had to work with and him getting bounced all over the line-up. Virtanen never had quality 1st line time even during his draft year where he potted 45 goals playing on the 2nd/3rd line with little 1st line time and getting different sets of teammates as well as lacking quality players where he could have easily gotten more than 26 assists. He was the goal scorer on that team and everyone relied on him for goal scoring hence came the one-dimensional/lack of hockey IQ comments when he didn't have as many assists. I agree with that assessment though. And hopefully nobody is actually basing any of their hate towards Virtanen because of the WJC. This past WJC featured the most selfish, one-dimensional Canadian team I've ever seen. Virtanen had a lot of pressure to preform and while I hated his perfomance, I never questioned what kind of player he'll be in the future and nobody should be doing that too. Basing someone's career projection off a tournament full of kids is dumb. As for Virtanen's rookie season, It's not bad, certainly not the greatest, but we got to look at the circumstances. We had the most crappiest season since 1999, our team was practically killed, and Virtanen played with guys like Prust, Dorsett, Vey, Burrows, guys that aren't necessarily quality players. I think the only time he played with Baertschi/Horvat was when Willie figured we weren't gonna make the playoffs and put them together. They were good for 1 game and then never to be seen. When Virtanen has quality linemates, he'll produce. He's going to be a player that'll need someone to set him up since his game isn't the setup kind. I'll evaluate Jake when his contract year is up. That's when we'll know what kind of a player he is or is going to be in the future. But then again, everyone on these boards have put super high expectations on Virtanen and became disappointed when he didn't reach those super high expectations. If Virtanen becomes a 50-60 point player in his prime, that's absolutely a successful career. And the type of player he is, he's the kind of player to easily be doing that. Edited July 16, 2016 by Odd. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Dizzle Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Toews said: I am not referring just to Nylander and Ehlers but the way other players in the same draft year have progressed. I always see this being said every time there is a discussion about Virtanen, "It's too early". It was the same thing said about Kassian as well. I don't think it's ever too early to evaluate progress. You look at the progress that Demko and Boeser have made and anything that Jake has done pales in comparison. If I had to rank the youngsters in terms of value moving forward, I would have Jake behind the above names as well as Bo, Juolevi and Hutton. The only one he would be above is Baertschi. I actually agree with your ranking. I disagree comparing Virt to Kassian. Kass was older and had some significant issues. I also agree that it's never to early to evaluate progress, I just don't think Jake's is all that bad. Great? No. But definitely far from terrible. Edited July 16, 2016 by J-Dizzle sentence structure :D 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 10 hours ago, canuckledraggin said: So you're saying he's going to improve to pee-wee level then? I'm going to stop responding to you and the 5th line and the other of Jake's over the top critics, before this thread devolves into another 700 pages of bashing and defending a still 19 year old kid. lol go right ahead. If we're critics, you're as homer as it gets bud. 9 hours ago, Alflives said: A 19 year old kid who dominated almost every game for a 20 game stretch after his return from the WJC's too. I firmly believe we will see JV dominate more and more, for longer stretches this coming season. lmao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 1 hour ago, guntrix said: lol go right ahead. If we're critics, you're as homer as it gets bud. lmao. Do frogs have a$$es to laugh off? are you a Canuck's fan? Why the dislike of the best (young) power forward in hockey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salacious Crumb Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 5 hours ago, Alflives said: Do frogs have a$$es to laugh off? are you a Canuck's fan? Why the dislike of the best (young) power forward in hockey? Welcome back from your sabatacle at the cat rescue. Jake is so young and so raw. It would be wrong to put a limit on his growth. If you can remember Burrows or Keslers 1st season you should know not to say checking 3rd liner that hits and doesn't score. In 3-4 years we could very well have the type of power forward that few teams have. There is another thread where someone was bemoaning that players like Yzerman and Sakic never wanted to come back home and play due to the fishbowl. Look what the local newspaper did to an 18 year old after the Jrs? Probably a good call by a couple of HOF players. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 12 hours ago, Toews said: I am not referring just to Nylander and Ehlers but the way other players in the same draft year have progressed. I always see this being said every time there is a discussion about Virtanen, "It's too early". It was the same thing said about Kassian as well. I don't think it's ever too early to evaluate progress. You look at the progress that Demko and Boeser have made and anything that Jake has done pales in comparison. If I had to rank the youngsters in terms of value moving forward, I would have Jake behind the above names as well as Bo, Juolevi and Hutton. The only one he would be above is Baertschi. What progress are we talking about? Jake Virtanen made the NHL at 19. If his problems are the same as "Kassian's" it has not surfaced. And making the NHL at 19 is an accomplishment. One that suggests he is very capable of being an impact player. More so than a washout. Although admittedly that is also a possibility. Yeah he may have stuff to learn? I won't panic if at 20 he gets sent to Utica to ingest some reality. Let it play out... I'd still bet on him! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 16 hours ago, Salacious Crumb said: Welcome back from your sabatacle at the cat rescue. Jake is so young and so raw. It would be wrong to put a limit on his growth. If you can remember Burrows or Keslers 1st season you should know not to say checking 3rd liner that hits and doesn't score. In 3-4 years we could very well have the type of power forward that few teams have. There is another thread where someone was bemoaning that players like Yzerman and Sakic never wanted to come back home and play due to the fishbowl. Look what the local newspaper did to an 18 year old after the Jrs? Probably a good call by a couple of HOF players. I do believe Scotty Bowman said the best trade he ever made was one he didn't make. He had arranged to trade Yzerman, but it collapsed. Some players take time to find their game at the NHL level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedblue2017 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Virtanen will be much better this year, not that he was terrible last year, the thjng to remember is that he is just a kid who is not Gretzke, or Lemeux, or McDavid, most young guys like Virtanen take a few years to gain the experience, so i am not to sure why after one season a 19 year old kid is getting tossed under the bus, Jake is big, fast, and skilled, the best is yet to come. So lets be patient and watchhim prove all the nay sayers wrong. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bissurnette Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Guess some things never change, like CDC putting outrageous expectations on a 19 year old and sharpening their pitchforks ready in the case that he doesn't dominate the pros as a 20 year old next year. Settle down, he's a teenager making millions of dollars playing for his hometown team which he grew up idealizing btw. Even if he goes to Utica next year, if he can put up 0.4-0.5ppg you all should be happy. I wouldn't mind giving him 2 years in Utica before bringing him slowly back up to the NHL. He'll be worth it. He's never going to be an offensive dynamo. Just accept it and move on. He's going to be a player that compliments his line with his speed and size and ability to create room. He'll make his line better that way. Like Kreider. Everyone is wishing we would trade for him, but he's not an offensive juggernaut either. He's the beneficiary. If Virtanen can produce 50 points in his prime he's a helluva a draft pick. By the way, in case y'all didn't know, his prime years are his mid 20s to early 30s. Which means he's about 5 years away so aim your anger and frustration elsewhere instead of contributing to the negativity that follows all these prospects everywhere. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vancan2233 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 The more I look back at Bertuzzi's progressing in the NHL, I see Virtanen's progressing in a similar trajectory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintPatrick33 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 2 hours ago, vancan2233 said: The more I look back at Bertuzzi's progressing in the NHL, I see Virtanen's progressing in a similar trajectory. I really liken his tool kit to a young Iginla's. Iggy was known for plowing down the wing with speed and strength and being able to roof one home. Most of Jakes junior highlights were of this variety. Bert was great at protecting the puck and could get in close and had much softer hands. Either way, right now Jake is the hardest hitting teenager I have seen, he makes the boards rumble with his hits. Hopefully he can find his own niche offensively. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 5 hours ago, Alflives said: I do believe Scotty Bowman said the best trade he ever made was one he didn't make. He had arranged to trade Yzerman, but it collapsed. Some players take time to find their game at the NHL level. Yzerman was over a point per game in his first season... But yes, players develop at different rates. The hope would be for a top pick to develop quickly, but we only have to look at the Sedins for an example of top draft picks who took a little bit of time to develop but still became elite players. I think we're still very much in the "wait and see" category with Jake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nave Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Virtanen is one of the biggest hitters I ever have seen at this age. If he progresses well he has a high ceiling as a disruptive player who puts up 20+ goals a season. Going to Utica may be the best way for him to reach that potential, and that's fine. His first NHL season was a mixed bag, but most rookies make rookie mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Balboa Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 13 hours ago, bleedblue2017 said: Virtanen will be much better this year, not that he was terrible last year, the thjng to remember is that he is just a kid who is not Gretzke, or Lemeux, or McDavid, most young guys like Virtanen take a few years to gain the experience, so i am not to sure why after one season a 19 year old kid is getting tossed under the bus, Jake is big, fast, and skilled, the best is yet to come. So lets be patient and watchhim prove all the nay sayers wrong. You couldn't even bother to look up how to spell two of the greatest NHL players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Balboa Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 6 hours ago, NaveJoseph said: Virtanen is one of the biggest hitters I ever have seen at this age. If he progresses well he has a high ceiling as a disruptive player who puts up 20+ goals a season. Going to Utica may be the best way for him to reach that potential, and that's fine. His first NHL season was a mixed bag, but most rookies make rookie mistakes. Can watch this all day. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 1 hour ago, Rocky Balboa said: Can watch this all day. Where Virtanen starts the season will depend on coaching and Benning who have the best read on his development. I trust in Benning. I can remember few games last year where Virtanen did not stand out during his TOI. His physical play without doubt makes him standout but I admired his puck possession and ability to throw a pass. Most of those passes were not converted but that had as much to do with his line mates as Virtanen. Time in Utica might teach him how to pace his physical play and his pro puck possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Rocky Balboa said: Can watch this all day. Did Bieksa accidentally kick Virtanen with his skates? edit: Realized Bieksa was waiting for a change but as he was putting his leg back in it hit Virtanen unintentionally Edited July 18, 2016 by Odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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