Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[alfstonker]

21 hours ago, Where'd Luongo? said:

It's not Jake, it's the style of play that they are trying to make him play. Let him play his strengths, stop trying to change him.

 

So you're a coach now. Congratulations.

Are his strengths mooning about, not getting involved and sliding off checks? He is actually taking the p-ss out of Willie and the fan base.

[Where'd Luongo?]

Just now, alfstonker said:

 

So you're a coach now. Congratulations.

Are his strengths mooning about, not getting involved and sliding off checks? He is actually taking the p-ss out of Willie and the fan base.

Get over it bud.

[alfstonker]

21 hours ago, Alflives said:

This hanging back and waiting in the neutral zone, rather than going in hard on the fore-check is not at all JV's game.  You are 100% correct.  Excellent point!

 

Since when did a team model it's systems on one player? Is sliding off checks now JV's game? 

[alfstonker]

On 11/8/2016 at 2:03 AM, canuckledraggin said:

I said pretty much this in the Tryamkin thread. Willie D must be wondering what he has to do to get this kid sent down to the AHL. As others have theorized, he's either hurt or too scared as you say. I think he needs a new coach for a while. It seems as though there's a disconnect between Jake and WD. Somebody needs to tell him to keep his stick on the ice and skate like the wind. That's all he needs to do. Stop playing like a positional robot and go after the puck every once in a while.

 

His coach was Willie last season after the WJC was it not? - when he played some of his best hockey. I'm sure Willie and the other coaches are telling him all these things but it is starting to look like a "character thing" with Jake. If he is hurt ffs tell the coach and take a conditioning stint in Utica, 

[Alflives]

33 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

 

Since when did a team model it's systems on one player? Is sliding off checks now JV's game? 

Ya, the system is awesome!  

 

On a serious note: Pratt and Bro Jake this morning were hinting JV has off ice issues that are affecting his on ice play.  The Canucks are keeping JV up, so they can keep a closer eye on his off ice habbits.  Why does stuff like this happen to our players? 

[MJDDawg]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Ya, the system is awesome!  

 

On a serious note: Pratt and Bro Jake this morning were hinting JV has off ice issues that are affecting his on ice play.  The Canucks are keeping JV up, so they can keep a closer eye on his off ice habbits.  Why does stuff like this happen to our players? 

 

I question this because it's coming from Pratt and the old geezer and as it sounds like a cheap ratings and click bait grab.

 

But if true, oh boy. It wouldn't necessarily shock me that some issue is there. I've always believed that drafting the home town kid is more of a curse than a blessing from the player. Just too much pressure to not let anyone down. The team, the teammates, the family, the friends...etc. Plus he can't get away from all of the crap generated by the local hacks.

 

I truly feel for the kid. But if the team is keeping him up here just so they can keep an eye on his off ice activities, that's quite disconcerting and not a good sign.  The longer this goes, the more appropriate the Kassian 2 label becomes, which only increases the pressure on him.

 

 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, MJDDawg said:

 

I question this because it's coming from Pratt and the old geezer and as it sounds like a cheap ratings and click bait grab.

 

But if true, oh boy. It wouldn't necessarily shock me that some issue is there. I've always believed that drafting the home town kid is more of a curse than a blessing from the player. Just too much pressure to not let anyone down. The team, the teammates, the family, the friends...etc. Plus he can't get away from all of the crap generated by the local hacks.

 

I truly feel for the kid. But if the team is keeping him up here just so they can keep an eye on his off ice activities, that's quite disconcerting and not a good sign.  The longer this goes, the more appropriate the Kassian 2 label becomes, which only increases the pressure on him.

 

 

Tony Gallagher said the JV off ice is more about his commitment to training and being a professional than Kassian stuff.  

[MJDDawg]

7 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Tony Gallagher said the JV off ice is more about his commitment to training and being a professional than Kassian stuff.  

 

Ah, that's comforting, I guess?

 

Still, troubling that this issue wasn't identified by our scouts with all their research leading into that draft. This potential misfire could be huge for this team for years.

[alfstonker]

4 hours ago, MJDDawg said:

 

Ah, that's comforting, I guess?

 

Still, troubling that this issue wasn't identified by our scouts with all their research leading into that draft. This potential misfire could be huge for this team for years.

 

Well it makes more sense of the "pudgy" photos. 

[JiffyPB]

41 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

Why are we letting Jake know that he will be back as soon as next week?  He should be sent down and then force us to call him back up by showing his hard work and commitment.  

 

I have never seen a player so not ready to play in the NHL as this kid but yet he still continues to wear a jersey.  I just don't get it

 

 

Benning logic.

[skategal]

9 hours ago, Alflives said:

Tony Gallagher said the JV off ice is more about his commitment to training and being a professional than Kassian stuff.  

There was another Van reporter last week who commented on Jake being the last one on the ice for an optional skate and one of the first ones off.  Not likely to demonstrate a passion for your performance if you're a young player not getting much ice time from the coach if that's what is demonstrated.  Especially when your team isn't successful, wouldn't you want to be busting your hump to try and do whatever you could to improve so you could try and help the team.  Combine that with the night before a game here in Van when he was out at a concert....might be some commitment issues.  All that being said, it's all rumour since I can't find the original article where it was mentioned.  

[higgyfan]

10 minutes ago, skategal said:

There was another Van reporter last week who commented on Jake being the last one on the ice for an optional skate and one of the first ones off.  Not likely to demonstrate a passion for your performance if you're a young player not getting much ice time from the coach if that's what is demonstrated.  Especially when your team isn't successful, wouldn't you want to be busting your hump to try and do whatever you could to improve so you could try and help the team.  Combine that with the night before a game here in Van when he was out at a concert....might be some commitment issues.  All that being said, it's all rumour since I can't find the original article where it was mentioned.  

Sadly, passion can't be taught; either ya got it or ya don't.  Just look at Horvat.  Or on 2nd thought...Jake!   Look at Horvat!

[Bissurnette]

On 2016-11-07 at 9:12 PM, ghjffbali said:

He's an adult in a professional sports league, not your child in kindergarten and it's not like he's sifting through CDC getting the feels reading through this thread.

 

He was gifted a spot last year despite being outplayed by numerous players. He didn't do a good job justifying it other than a span of 3 weeks when it was garbage time.

 

He played an average camp this year and still made the team despite having no more NHL/CHL dilemma. Just because Benning shoved a kid who's not NHL ready down WD's throat doesn't mean WD has to make Benning look good by playing him a lot. He's painfully not NHL ready and the funny thing is that it's not his hockey IQ or defensive play that's the root cause of the problem, it's his surprising lack of intensity. He plays the game with a 6/10 intensity. The funny thing is everyone calls guys like Nylander or Marner girls and suggest they aren't any good because they think those players are above putting in the work because they'll chip a nail while not realizing JV puts in even less in both ends of the ice.

 

You know why Tkachuk and Bennett are such good players. Those kids put in the work. Both are incredibly talented, but their motor is top notch and they play with the same kind of intensity grinders like Burrows and Hansen do. It's why they're gonna be successful in this league even if they don't end up reaching their full potentials.

 

Negativity breeds negativity. It's not about what people say on CDC, it's about the negativity by the fans that seeps into the locker room through the media. No he doesn't read CDC, but he can't ignore the media and tweets etc. I thought with all of us being fed up with the team and hoping for a rebuild for years now, we would be kinder and more patient with our younger players. Little did I know y'all are rabid dogs feasting on this 20 year old kid like he's single-handedly taking this team down.

 

He was given a spot last year because the Calgary Hitmen were a team with lots of issues (on the ice, and behind the bench), and they weren't going to risk him being mistreated on that team. Plus, with his size and physicality management thought he might learn some bad habits in junior that he might find tough to shake off. They wanted to avoid that, and he was physically mature to compete in the NHL so they kept him. At the time, with us desperately needing youth in our lineup, that was a good enough justification to keep him with the big club. This year he shouldn't have been up with the big club, but JB kept him here. There were many rumours at the start of the year that Jake was asked to play with less physicality so that he doesn't take himself out of position and focus more on scoring. The coach should have given him more mins to evaluate him properly, and if he was not playing well management should have sent him down a few weeks ago. Very few of us would have disagreed with him spending time in Utica, but keeping him in limbo is not doing anybody any favours. That's not his fault, that's on coaching/management getting their signals crossed.

 

Please don't lecture me on Marner's and Nylander's play in their zone. I had to move to the east coast this year so I catch a lot of Laughs games unfortunately, and if you think their defensive play is better than Jake's then I'll know you haven't watched a Laughs game. The reason Nylander is doing well offensively is because he's playing on a purely offensive line with heavy talent, some might say generational talent. Put him in the west and play him with Burrows, Granlund and the likes and see how many points he gets.

 

On 2016-11-08 at 2:25 AM, Toews said:

What does that have to do with what he posted? @The 5th Line has been one of the most vocal of Jake's critics since he was drafted, and I remember him being flamed hard for his opinion. With the passage of time he has been proven right and I am sure that gives him no satisfaction as a Canucks fan but its hard to fault him for feeling vindicated considering how much criticism and personal attacks he took for expressing a mere opinion. I can say that if I were in his position I would be throwing it in the face of the people who threw insults but he has refrained from doing that.

 

 

Jake is running himself out of town, right down to Utica. Showed up to camp not in shape then criticized the coach publicly for not giving him minutes. I don't know if you heard Tomlinson on the pre-game show a few days ago talking about Jake's lack of commitment, basically he is the last guy to get on the ice and the first to get off. He is lucky Willie is on thin ice, otherwise any other coach would have ripped him a new one one in the media for not showing enough on or off the ice to deserve any more playing time.

 

Is your argument really that @The 5th Line was moaning about Jake since the start so it's ok for him to keep doing it? Do folks still complain about us not drafting Perry in '03, or Eberle in '08? Every time this thread gets bumped, it's him complaining about Jake. We get it, you don't like the pick. You think he's garbage and he doesn't belong in the NHL. There are some of us who are still actually hopeful about the pick, and we don't need to have your unwavering pessimism shoved down our throats. Most people agree that Jake should have been playing in Utica this year, especially if those rumours are true. Management should have sent him down weeks ago but they didn't, did you expect him to go and tell them he's not ready to play in the NHL? How well do you think that conversation would go?

 

Nylander is playing in the east where it's a completely different style of play, while Ehlers is playing on a huge, heavy team with plenty of skill to back it up. They can create room for him, he's not expected to be a physical deterrent on his team like Virtanen is as a 20 year old. Do you really think Ehlers or Nylander would be on the same trajectory that they are on now if they were playing on this team? Different circumstances, different teammates, different systems, different cities and atmospheres. Who knows what would have happened here if we drafted one of them instead? Y'all still have your panties in a bunch about the 2014 draft, we drafted VIRTANEN. Accept it and move on.

[Toews]

22 minutes ago, meh_wassup said:

Please don't lecture me on Marner's and Nylander's play in their zone. I had to move to the east coast this year so I catch a lot of Laughs games unfortunately, and if you think their defensive play is better than Jake's then I'll know you haven't watched a Laughs game. The reason Nylander is doing well offensively is because he's playing on a purely offensive line with heavy talent, some might say generational talent. Put him in the west and play him with Burrows, Granlund and the likes and see how many points he gets.

 

 

Is your argument really that @The 5th Line was moaning about Jake since the start so it's ok for him to keep doing it? Do folks still complain about us not drafting Perry in '03, or Eberle in '08? Every time this thread gets bumped, it's him complaining about Jake. We get it, you don't like the pick. You think he's garbage and he doesn't belong in the NHL. There are some of us who are still actually hopeful about the pick, and we don't need to have your unwavering pessimism shoved down our throats. Most people agree that Jake should have been playing in Utica this year, especially if those rumours are true. Management should have sent him down weeks ago but they didn't, did you expect him to go and tell them he's not ready to play in the NHL? How well do you think that conversation would go?

 

Nylander is playing in the east where it's a completely different style of play, while Ehlers is playing on a huge, heavy team with plenty of skill to back it up. They can create room for him, he's not expected to be a physical deterrent on his team like Virtanen is as a 20 year old. Do you really think Ehlers or Nylander would be on the same trajectory that they are on now if they were playing on this team? Different circumstances, different teammates, different systems, different cities and atmospheres. Who knows what would have happened here if we drafted one of them instead? Y'all still have your panties in a bunch about the 2014 draft, we drafted VIRTANEN. Accept it and move on.

Firstly Marner's play in his own zone is better than Jake's. I watched him for years with the Knights and he was consistently one of the best players on the Knights defensively. Having watched a few games of him in the NHL, that hasn't changed. He is easily one of the better forwards for Toronto defensively. At the moment Jake isn't exceptional defensively, his underlying stats looked good last year because he was sheltered as a rookie. But that's fine, most players develop their defensive games as they grow older.

 

This is a forum is it not? Then you should expect to see some dissension. If we all agreed on everything there would be no point coming here at all. If you can't deal with one person's opinion there are other remedies you can take, like blocking that person's posts. Flaming them so that they will stop though is against board rules and accomplishes nothing.

 

Ehlers and Nylander are far better players than Jake is currently. It is unlikely that changes in the future. Is there a chance? Sure. Would they be doing better here than Jake is? I would bet my house on it. This organization has screwed with the development of Virtanen, that doesn't mean the same would have occurred with either Nylander or Ehlers. Both of them were far more ready to play in the NHL last year than Virtanen was.

 

Actually it seems like the opposite to me, whenever anyone decides to compare Jake with one his peers whether it be Nylander, Ehlers, Larkin, Ritchie etc, people get their panties in a bunch and start flipping $&!# because they can't handle any criticism towards the local kid. But how exactly do we judge Virtanen's performances without some form of benchmark?

[SaintPatrick33]

Lets be realistic, if this kid is blowing off practices with his teammates who work hard, why would any teammate go to battle with this punk so he can go to a concert? 

 

He should take his job seriously because at this point he will get his coach and maybe GM fired. 

 

Maybe he should learn off Horvat, Bo had a long scoring drought in his first two seasons, yet fans were willing to stick with him because of his WORK ETHIC. Guess what? He turned it around the 2nd half of the season even with limited ice time. Never complained once and towed the company line. 

 

Jake has been petulant since he started playing pro. One great season in junior and we draft him 6th ovr. After that he has done nothing but regress. What else do we need to know about him? He lacks the drive and determination to be a true pro. At this point, he is a bust of a pick unless the switch suddenly comes on (doubtful). 

 

If reports are true, Jake has progressed in his partying skills, maybe he can meet Shane O'Brien at the roxy and show us all his true potential. Yea lets blame the media, because Bo during his slumps sure didnt pop off about the coach etc. What a weak excuse. 

[JiffyPB]

8 hours ago, meh_wassup said:

Negativity breeds negativity. It's not about what people say on CDC, it's about the negativity by the fans that seeps into the locker room through the media. No he doesn't read CDC, but he can't ignore the media and tweets etc. I thought with all of us being fed up with the team and hoping for a rebuild for years now, we would be kinder and more patient with our younger players. Little did I know y'all are rabid dogs feasting on this 20 year old kid like he's single-handedly taking this team down.

You make it sound like the 5thline just sits on his computer all day and spams JV's twitter and instagram with hate messages. He is a god damn adult in a professional sports league. The problem isn't patience, it's the fact he flat out does not belong in this league and if he weren't a 20 year old 6th overall pick you would not praise him any more than a plug like Skille. People recognize this and is why they are saying to send him down and keep him there.

 

8 hours ago, meh_wassup said:

He was given a spot last year because the Calgary Hitmen were a team with lots of issues (on the ice, and behind the bench), and they weren't going to risk him being mistreated on that team.

Prove it. This myth was drummed up by rabid supporters on CDC who wanna pretend this is the same thing as Draisaitl and Prince Albert or the gongshow going on in Flint. It's fundamentally not true. Why didn't Philly demand Sanheim be moved? Why is Carolina not doing the same in the interest of their prized prospect Jake Bean? This team was a playoff team last year WITHOUT JV and had no problem developing those guys + others in the past like Victor Rask (also Carolina) and Martin Jones (SJ).

 

8 hours ago, meh_wassup said:

Plus, with his size and physicality management thought he might learn some bad habits in junior that he might find tough to shake off. They wanted to avoid that, and he was physically mature to compete in the NHL so they kept him. At the time, with us desperately needing youth in our lineup, that was a good enough justification to keep him with the big club. This year he shouldn't have been up with the big club, but JB kept him here. There were many rumours at the start of the year that Jake was asked to play with less physicality so that he doesn't take himself out of position and focus more on scoring. The coach should have given him more mins to evaluate him properly, and if he was not playing well management should have sent him down a few weeks ago. Very few of us would have disagreed with him spending time in Utica, but keeping him in limbo is not doing anybody any favours. That's not his fault, that's on coaching/management getting their signals crossed.

It isn't the coach's job to reward a player playing no better than a plug who has a "last on, first off" mentality. Tryamkin sat in the pressbox for a month, worked his ass off in practice and got back in shape. He's now a regular. Jake goes to the media and whines about how he doesn't get to ride shotgun with Bo and Sven. Healthy scratch and AHL demotion.

 

8 hours ago, meh_wassup said:

Please don't lecture me on Marner's and Nylander's play in their zone. I had to move to the east coast this year so I catch a lot of Laughs games unfortunately, and if you think their defensive play is better than Jake's then I'll know you haven't watched a Laughs game. The reason Nylander is doing well offensively is because he's playing on a purely offensive line with heavy talent, some might say generational talent. Put him in the west and play him with Burrows, Granlund and the likes and see how many points he gets.

Jake's play in the defensive zone is Timbits hockey. The try isn't really there. It wasn't about Nylander and Marner being 2-way players or their overall effectiveness in their own zone, it's the fact even players like them put in more effort than Jake does overall. Funny how you don't talk about Tkachuk and Bennett. This kid's intensity isn't anywhere near theirs. It's why the coach makes him ride the pine and it's not because he can't score.

[Blömqvist]

On November 9, 2016 at 7:46 AM, alfstonker said:

 

Steve Yzerman has only taken one draft prospect and put him in the NHL since he arrived at TB. All but one has gone through the AHL first. He did the same thing at Detroit.

It's not Willie's fault he is asked/told to play some rookies who are blatantly not ready for the NHL.

 

Ya I agree. Jake -- like most players, needs time in the AHL. Nick Ritchie, another big powerforward taken just 4 spots later in the draft benefitted well from a season in the AHL. Some have even said that Puljujarvi needs time in the AHL. Willie Nylander had time in the AHL to develop too. This fanbase nees to calm down and be patient. Jake needs time there, and it should already be expected that powerforward type players generally take a bit longer to find their game when they turn pro.

[N4ZZY]

Jake needs a fire lit under his ass. 

I hope him being sent to the AHL does exactly that. 

 

[Toews]

8 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

Jake needs a fire lit under his ass. 

I hope him being sent to the AHL does exactly that. 

 

Considering they plan on bringing him back after 2 games regardless of performance I will say it undermines that effect.

[Rush17]

38 minutes ago, Toews said:

Considering they plan on bringing him back after 2 games regardless of performance I will say it undermines that effect.

sounds like linden changed their thought on that. instead on tsn1040 they said they will see where he is at after the weekend. if he stinks he might stay down or get one last chance at the nhl before being demoted for the year.