Bissurnette Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 1 hour ago, DeNiro said: He should be there the rest of the season and then reassess at next years training camp. He's not going to get anything out of the NHL this year. Exactly. Give him time to hone his craft under Travis Green. He's got nowhere else to go in the meantime. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bissurnette Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 On 2016-11-10 at 3:14 AM, The 5th Line said: It's not like I just come in here and post something like "Jake sucks" and then leave. This thread doesn't get bumped it has been one of, if not the most popular page on this forum the last two years. We are rabid hockey fans, our 6th overall pick will be discussed for years to come and if you don't like it then maybe you should get off a hockey message board that has what? 10 different threads relating to Jake Virtanen(none of which were created by me) I am still rooting for this kid, I still collect all of his hockey cards and I still cheer for him on t.v and at the 1 or 2 games I go to a year. I was at the game against the capitals and he picked up his first point of the season! Maybe it's a sign!? And he should be discussed. But to keep saying we should have drafted so and so 2.5 years after the fact is a living in the past a little no? He has not been good this year, and he should have been sent down to Utica a long time ago. That's on management, do you not agree? You make it sound sometimes like his ceiling is a 4th line grinder. I'm just saying a little optimism might do you good. I don't mind you as a poster and I find some of your rhetoric entertaining (in a good way), but we don't seem to see eye to eye on this topic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bissurnette Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 On 2016-11-10 at 8:30 AM, ghjffbali said: You make it sound like the 5thline just sits on his computer all day and spams JV's twitter and instagram with hate messages. He is a god damn adult in a professional sports league. The problem isn't patience, it's the fact he flat out does not belong in this league and if he weren't a 20 year old 6th overall pick you would not praise him any more than a plug like Skille. People recognize this and is why they are saying to send him down and keep him there. Prove it. This myth was drummed up by rabid supporters on CDC who wanna pretend this is the same thing as Draisaitl and Prince Albert or the gongshow going on in Flint. It's fundamentally not true. Why didn't Philly demand Sanheim be moved? Why is Carolina not doing the same in the interest of their prized prospect Jake Bean? This team was a playoff team last year WITHOUT JV and had no problem developing those guys + others in the past like Victor Rask (also Carolina) and Martin Jones (SJ). It isn't the coach's job to reward a player playing no better than a plug who has a "last on, first off" mentality. Tryamkin sat in the pressbox for a month, worked his ass off in practice and got back in shape. He's now a regular. Jake goes to the media and whines about how he doesn't get to ride shotgun with Bo and Sven. Healthy scratch and AHL demotion. Jake's play in the defensive zone is Timbits hockey. The try isn't really there. It wasn't about Nylander and Marner being 2-way players or their overall effectiveness in their own zone, it's the fact even players like them put in more effort than Jake does overall. Funny how you don't talk about Tkachuk and Bennett. This kid's intensity isn't anywhere near theirs. It's why the coach makes him ride the pine and it's not because he can't score. I never said he should not be sent down. Since he's not being given minutes here, I agree that him spending the rest of the year in Utica is best for his development. He's 20 years old, he's barely an adult and he still can't order a drink in the US. Relax, he's not going to make or break a team. He's going to make mistakes on and off the ice, because that's how most 20 year olds not named Horvat are like. I don't have to prove jack to you or anybody else on these boards. If you need proof go seek it out yourself. So why didn't the coach do something about it then? Why did he keep putting him in the same position over and over again? If he's not contributing to the team, scratch him and get him to work his ass off in the gym, and hope management takes the hint and sends him down. If you think he has a lot more to offer on this team, then give him some leeway, and see where he takes it. His defensive play is not ideal but he's positionally decent, and you sometimes see him going hard on the back check if he's the high forward in the offensive zone. That said, his defensive play is nothing to brag about and he definitely should not be killing any penalties anytime soon. Jake is a different kind of animal. Players like him don't learn how to consistently carry out their intensity and lug their body weight around the ice for a full 60 mins until they're in their mid 20s. That's why I'm preaching patience. And I'm sorry, how many players must I compare him to? Who else around the league do you feel I must bring up in this discussion? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blömqvist Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 2 hours ago, duc_evo said: I think that Jake has a lot of flaws but he biggest strengths are his shot, powerful skating and his physical presence. Once he can put all of that in his NHL self. He will be a force. IMO I think Jake should focus on his skating. He has good top speed and powerfu strides but needs some agility, like how Horvat can skate one direction and then adjust his speed, change his direction, and thn explode out of his turn all in one motion. That'll help him on the forecheck, where he'll be quicker to get in a position where he can take the body, and offensively, where he can use that speed, agility, and strength to power his way to the net. He's a big strong guy so it'll be hard containing him down low and if he can get to the net and be patient and stay there he'll pot in a lot of goals. Oh and it'd be nice if he could be used on the powerplay in the Ovechkin/Stamkos spot and just get him to rip one timers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush17 Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 (edited) sounds like Jake may need some ahl seasoning. they could bring him up for 2 games then send him back. In fact I hope they do or keep him down. he isn't engaged he's playing it too safe. trust your instincts Jake! Edited November 12, 2016 by Rush17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where'd Luongo? Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Did anyone see the game last night? how did he look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Just now, Where'd Luongo? said: Did anyone see the game last night? how did he look? Didn't really stood out that much I felt. Didn't record any shots, or points, and was floating during some shifts waiting for the puck to get to him rather than him going for it. He was physical though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBoGo53 Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Where'd Luongo? said: Did anyone see the game last night? how did he look? Didn't really do much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiffyPB Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 12 hours ago, meh_wassup said: I never said he should not be sent down. Since he's not being given minutes here, I agree that him spending the rest of the year in Utica is best for his development. He's 20 years old, he's barely an adult and he still can't order a drink in the US. Relax, he's not going to make or break a team. He's going to make mistakes on and off the ice, because that's how most 20 year olds not named Horvat are like. Agreed then. We share common ground here. 12 hours ago, meh_wassup said: I don't have to prove jack to you or anybody else on these boards. If you need proof go seek it out yourself. Because you don't have proof. The only thing you can cite is something imagined by a poster on CDC. 12 hours ago, meh_wassup said: So why didn't the coach do something about it then? Why did he keep putting him in the same position over and over again? If he's not contributing to the team, scratch him and get him to work his ass off in the gym, and hope management takes the hint and sends him down. If you think he has a lot more to offer on this team, then give him some leeway, and see where he takes it. He did and they finally did send him down. The coach doesn't owe a guy with a "last on, first off" mentality a "chance" to play 18 minutes a night. I blame this on management for gifting him a spot 2 years in a row. Heck, they send him down the AHL and announce to the world it's only 2 games. Then they made some poor chap change his number just so Jake can keep his in the AHL for those 2 freaking games. What kind of message does that send? What has Jake done to earn this privilege other than riding a sky high shooting percentage in juniors 3 years ago off into the sunset. 12 hours ago, meh_wassup said: His defensive play is not ideal but he's positionally decent, and you sometimes see him going hard on the back check if he's the high forward in the offensive zone. That said, his defensive play is nothing to brag about and he definitely should not be killing any penalties anytime soon. Jake is a different kind of animal. Players like him don't learn how to consistently carry out their intensity and lug their body weight around the ice for a full 60 mins until they're in their mid 20s. That's why I'm preaching patience. It's not about the overall effectiveness, it's about if the player is trying enough. Jake's work ethic isn't good enough for this league. Not only has he struggled with his conditioning, many have already reported how he barely makes it to practice on time and is one of the first to get off. If his work ethic was like Hansen's, I wouldn't be complaining. I'd be screaming at the coach to play him more. 12 hours ago, meh_wassup said: And I'm sorry, how many players must I compare him to? Who else around the league do you feel I must bring up in this discussion? All I'm saying is look at other young players comparable of his age and see what kind of work they put in to get in here. Then look at Jake. It's pretty clear which kinds of players were gifted an NHL roster spot and which ones weren't. The ones that made it out of merit are either all producing (Laine, Matthews, Werenski, Nylander, etc) or are providing enough effort in other aspects of the game that makes them worth keeping around (Tkachuk, Forsling, Tryamkin, etc). Jake doesn't do this. Even a guy like Gaunce who has flat-lined at this level provides something in the sense that he can play center and can win over 50% of his draws. Overall this isn't a chicken or the egg dichotomy. It's pretty damn simple. Jake needs to go to the AHL because (1) he isn't ready for the NHL, (2) he needs to work on stuff like positioning, effort level and cycling, and (3) he needs to build up his confidence. He won't fix these at the NHL level and he won't receive that kind of coaching at the NHL level either. The NHL is a results based league and Jake doesn't get results in any aspect of the game (even his physicality has disappeared). The AHL is a developmental league and as a player who needs development that is exactly where he needs to be. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salmonberries Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 VIRTANEN PROVIDES CAUTIONARY TALE ON DEALING WITH TEENAGERS http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/virtanen-provides-cautionary-tale-on-dealing-with-teenagers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklehead80 Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 4 shots for Jake through 1st period. Comets down 1-0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJDDawg Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Kenny Holland showing how it's done. JB and Trev have botched both Jakes and Jared's development. For a management team that was going to focus on drafting and development, they're not off to a roaring start. Mind boggling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post CRAZY_4_NAZZY Posted November 13, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted November 13, 2016 (edited) Virtanen led team with 6 shots tonight I think He is getting more comfy with himself, but I think he needs more time to be there and hone his game. 2 games just doesn't do enough for him. With the trainwreck we have up here, he is better served in an environment that will let him grow. Edited November 13, 2016 by CRAZY_4_NAZZY 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorevat Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 I really hope he doesn't get called back up tomorrow, let him develop down there until at least january if not the whole year. Nothing good can come from playing sub-par 4th line minutes on a bottom feeder. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush17 Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 I hope they throw him into a 3rd game in 3 days. Give him a chance to prove himself when hes exhausted. Game is rather early though with the 1 pm start so maybe not lol:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickie Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 0 points in 2 games in the AHL? Bust. Real talk though, Benning telling him he was only going down for 2 games... How does that send a message? Send him down until he forces you to call him up. I get there aren't any players down there for him to work with besides Subban, but him getting 20 minutes a night is better than getting 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Dickie said: 0 points in 2 games in the AHL? Bust. Real talk though, Benning telling him he was only going down for 2 games... How does that send a message? Send him down until he forces you to call him up. I get there aren't any players down there for him to work with besides Subban, but him getting 20 minutes a night is better than getting 8. I watched last night's game, and JV looked really good. He had a lot of shots, and looked really big and super fast. Edited November 13, 2016 by Alflives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickie Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 13 minutes ago, Alflives said: I watched last night's game, and JV looked really good. He had a lot of shots, and looked really big and super fast. I was sarcastic, but regardless he belongs in the AHL this year. Not just for him, but for the comets. Maybe give them and Demko a chance at winning some games having a legitimate prospect on the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, Dickie said: I was sarcastic, but regardless he belongs in the AHL this year. Not just for him, but for the comets. Maybe give them and Demko a chance at winning some games having a legitimate prospect on the team I would like to see him get a year there too. It was a fun game to watch. Our guys were skating, hitting, and fighting for ice. It was fast paced too. Jake is really big. His size really shows down there. And his speed is off the charts. If I had one criticism, it would be his net front work. He needs to get dirty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroCanuck Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 There is a chance that Jake asked to go down for a couple games just so he could get his game going, not likely but you never know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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