Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[aGENT]

Just now, SuitnTie said:

Ok can it be more clear? He hates WD and WD hates him, pretty simple. As long as WD is here, Jake's going to be in Utica or playing 4th line minutes and getting yelled at (I saw WD yelling at Jake multiple times off camera!)

 

38 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

People need to keep in mind coaches have FAR, FAR more opportunity to teach at the AHL level. There's a WAY more practice time. That's one of the biggest reasons he was sent down. 

 

The amount of teaching and practice time he was getting at this level wasn't enough. That's not a 'fault' of WD's, it's a 'fault' of being at the NHL level.

 

[Mathew Barzal]

2 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

I distinctly remember Willie saying something along the lines of 'The NHL isn't a development league'. He's there to put out a roster that can win him games on a night to night basis. Jake's got a ways to go before he can be an active contributor on all fronts at the NHL level.

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, Mathew Barzal said:

 

Exactly.

 

I distinctly remember Willie saying something along the lines of 'The NHL isn't a development league'. He's there to put out a roster that can win him games on a night to night basis. Jake's got a ways to go before he can be an active contributor on all fronts at the NHL level.

 

Well exactly, it's not a developmental league and the realities of modern NHL schedules are that there is simply VERY little practice time.  

 

Jake needed a LOT of practice time and a correspondingly, a LOT playing time to put what he's learned in those practices in to practical use, in game. Then repeat them over and over and OVER until it becomes second nature/instinctual on the ice. 

 

That requires practice time and ice time. He wasn't getting the practice time at this level to learn those things and hence wasn't going to receive the ice time to put them to use and repeat them over and over either. 

 

It's not a conspiracy and WD is not some evil Machiavellian character who 'hates' Virtanen and laughs maniacally while twisting his mustache.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, J.R. said:

 

Well exactly, it's not a developmental league and the realities of modern NHL schedules are that there is simply VERY little practice time.  

 

Jake needed a LOT of practice time and a correspondingly, a LOT playing time to put what he's learned in those practices in to practical use, in game. Then repeat them over and over and OVER until it becomes second nature/instinctual on the ice. 

 

That requires practice time and ice time. He wasn't getting the practice time at this level to learn those things and hence wasn't going to receive the ice time to put them to use and repeat them over and over either. 

 

It's not a conspiracy and WD is not some evil Machiavellian character who 'hates' Virtanen and laughs maniacally while twisting his mustache.

What's going on in TO, and Arizona these last couple seasons if the NHL is not a development league?  

[Alflives]

16 minutes ago, SuitnTie said:

Ok can it be more clear? He hates WD and WD hates him, pretty simple. As long as WD is here, Jake's going to be in Utica or playing 4th line minutes and getting yelled at (I saw WD yelling at Jake multiple times off camera!)

Coaches do yell at players, usually as a group though.  Are you sure WD wasn't directing his yelling at a group?  Plus, I don't think WD knows when he is or is not on camera.

[aGENT]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

What's going on in TO, and Arizona these last couple seasons if the NHL is not a development league?  

Is there a question in there somewhere or simply your usual nonsensical blathering?

[Dekey Pete]

BUST

 

 

/s

[Alflives]

Just now, J.R. said:

Is there a question in there somewhere or simply your usual nonsensical blathering?

There is a question mark, no?  TO and Arizona have coaches in place who will not be in fear of losing their jobs.  Has not Babcock, on several ocassions, publicly stated "there will be pain" as their team develops?  In some types of rebuilds (the tear it down TO kind) the NHL team does develop players, no?

[Smashian Kassian]

Those quotes are extremely encouraging. Even though he wasn't my first choice, I definitely think Virtanen has the talent/ability to play in the NHL right now in a meaningful role and help us, but he needs to learn how to be a pro first, and it sounds like Travis is showing how to do that just like he has for others. Very encouraging. 

Edited December 13, 2016 by Smashian Kassian

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Those quotes are extremely encouraging. Even though he wasn't my first choice, I definitely think Virtanen has the talent/ability to play in the NHL right now in a meaningful role and help us, but he needs to learn how to be a pro first, and it sounds like Travis is showing how to do that just like he has for others. Very encouraging. 

I wonder if TG is teaching Jake to master the cliche?

[73 Percent]

12 minutes ago, Alflives said:

There is a question mark, no?  TO and Arizona have coaches in place who will not be in fear of losing their jobs.  Has not Babcock, on several ocassions, publicly stated "there will be pain" as their team develops?  In some types of rebuilds (the tear it down TO kind) the NHL team does develop players, no?

Yeah... and how's the pain working for them. Last time I checked both teams still suck ass. I get this whole light at the end of the tunnel garbage but it's the second stuff everyone said about Edmonton.

 

Also I like how you quoted Babs from like 2 years ago. Why don't you quote what Tippett said only last night. He isn't happy. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Gooseberries said:

Yeah... and how's the pain working for them. Last time I checked both teams still suck ass. I get this whole light at the end of the tunnel garbage but it's the second stuff everyone said about Edmonton.

 

Also I like how you quoted Babs from like 2 years ago. Why don't you quote what Tippett said only last night. He isn't happy. 

I don't deny the Leafs still suck, and rather enjoy their sucking actually.  The point is, teams do develop players in the NHL.  Isn't the fourth line now often used for younger prospects?  

[73 Percent]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I don't deny the Leafs still suck, and rather enjoy their sucking actually.  The point is, teams do develop players in the NHL.  Isn't the fourth line now often used for younger prospects?  

Other than horvat name 1 high end prospect that developed into a top 6 forward from playing on the 4th line in the NHL...

 

How's mccann doing?

 

What's that? They don't want him rotting on the 4th line so theyou sent him to develop in a top 6 role in the ahl? Interesting...

 

 

Even your precious leafs font use the 4th line to develop players. It's reserved for players like Matt martin and Ben smith.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Gooseberries

[Rush17]

12 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Those quotes are extremely encouraging. Even though he wasn't my first choice, I definitely think Virtanen has the talent/ability to play in the NHL right now in a meaningful role and help us, but he needs to learn how to be a pro first, and it sounds like Travis is showing how to do that just like he has for others. Very encouraging. 

Yeah.  If Travis Green has good success with Jake I wouldn't be surprised if he gets the head gig next season.  Jake is an important player for the club.  Having a coach that gets along with him and can get him going could be a major asset.  It won't be the only reason for being hired for that gig.  But it certainly is a good portion of it. No club makes a coaching decision based on the potential relation of 1 player (unless your ovi).  The team played much better imo under Travis Green in the young stars.  Love his style :D

 

See what shakes ^^

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Gooseberries said:

Other than horvat name 1 high end prospect that developed into a top 6 forward from playing on the 4th line in the NHL...

 

How's mccann doing?

 

What's that? They don't want him rotting on the 4th line so theyou sent him to develop in a top 6 role in the ahl? Interesting...

Where did Kesler's and Burrows start?  Where did the Twins start?  Guys do develop into top six roles, while learning in the bottom six.  

[73 Percent]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Where did Kesler's and Burrows start?  Where did the Twins start?  Guys do develop into top six roles, while learning in the bottom six.  

I meant to put in recent memory but I must have missed it. That's my fault.  But my point still stands. Playing 5-7 mins a night is no way to learn how to contribute in the NHL.  Aaaaand you seem to forget the burrows and Kesler developed with the moose first... kinda like virtanen is doing now....

Edited December 13, 2016 by Gooseberries

[Smashian Kassian]

19 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I wonder if TG is teaching Jake to master the cliche?

 

Hahaha all within the realm of possibility. 

 

7 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

Yeah.  If Travis Green has good success with Jake I wouldn't be surprised if he gets the head gig next season.  Jake is an important player for the club.  Having a coach that gets along with him and can get him going could be a major asset.  It won't be the only reason for being hired for that gig.  But it certainly is a good portion of it. No club makes a coaching decision based on the potential relation of 1 player (unless your ovi).  The team played much better imo under Travis Green in the young stars.  Love his style :D

 

See what shakes ^^

 

Could definitely see this. And I also wouldn't be against it. U gotta think it will be tough for us to keep Travis through another Summer, and Wilie doesn't seem to be working. (Atleast I don't think Willie will be around when this team is at its best) So I'm with you, Travis seems to have a really good knack for getting the most out of his players, and thats what you need in the today's NHL with how hard it is to make transactions. 

Edited December 13, 2016 by Smashian Kassian

[gameburn2]

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 10:33 AM, stuman491 said:

I've coached volleyball at a high level for 10 years now. Every coach is different, some coaches are old school some are cutting edge.  I've worked with both.  In the end its really up to the player.  Every player can learn something from each coach they have.  However some players do not like a coach and choose not to take anything out of their experience with that coach.  Whether Benning or WD are old or new school guys Jake can learn from them if he decides to take their input to heart.

It can be handy if a team has more than one coach too.  I think a player who is not in the Matthews/McDavid range has a lot at risk: especially he/she doesn't really know if they are good enough or not.  Jake needs one or two people who "get" him.  I see him as physically-gifted player, with a surprisingly good read of the ice/vision.  Some of his passes have been terrific.  He shoots well and has a nose for the net.  He also seems to get along with his mates.  But his weaknesses are all mental: on ice and off.  He has gone from being a Torres type headhunter at times to a tentative perimeter player, with no defensive sense at all most of the time.  Obviously neither of these genuflections is good.  If he does well with Green, then everything changes.  Probably needs a full year in Utica, or most of the year and then a chance to return there for their playoffs if the Canucks finish where we all expect them to.  If a coach appreciates his game -- and just wants to add to it/complement it -- then this will work out.  He needs hours of ice time asap, practice time probably as well.  And lots and lots of video of other players (and himself) at their best.  He has shown too much already to be written off.

[aGENT]

51 minutes ago, Alflives said:

There is a question mark, no?  TO and Arizona have coaches in place who will not be in fear of losing their jobs.  Has not Babcock, on several ocassions, publicly stated "there will be pain" as their team develops?  In some types of rebuilds (the tear it down TO kind) the NHL team does develop players, no?

 

This has been explained before but it's not that there's no 'development' happening in the NHL. Clearly players continue to improve and 'develop' in the NHL. But they have to meet a certain minimal threshold for development. They have to have been developed in to bonafide NHL players to play at this level.

 

Not all players develop at the same pace. Jake's not there yet. Most of the kids on ARZ/TOR are. And even then, you've got Nylander demoted to 4th line and Tippett pissed in ARZ as Goose mentioned. It's not all roses and lollipops.

 

And neither team's's record is exactly a shining beacon of light on  'how to do things'. So again, what exactly is your question?

[DIBdaQUIB]

50 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Those quotes are extremely encouraging. Even though he wasn't my first choice, I definitely think Virtanen has the talent/ability to play in the NHL right now in a meaningful role and help us, but he needs to learn how to be a pro first, and it sounds like Travis is showing how to do that just like he has for others. Very encouraging. 

It certainly sounds like Jake was confused under WD as to what was expected and that TG has done a very good job of getting inside his head and motivating him. 

 

WD was also known for getting the most out of his players when he was in junior but since coming to the NHL, he has made it clear that he is not into development and makes decisions regarding deployment based on winning now.  That could be based on management's mandate but seems to conflict somewhat with what Trevor and JB have said about bringing the youngsters along.  You cannot expect to add rookies and not develop them.  Even McDavid and Matthews are learning at the NHL level. Still, Senior management seems to send conflicting messages about getting younger and faster yet still signing older vets (Eriksson, Miller) and refusing to move NTC players. 
Perhaps with such a contradictory approach to things, it is no surprise Jake - and likely a number of our players - are somewhat confused as to roles and the direction the team is heading.

Jake's comments sound very positive but they could also be construed as a knock on WD"s coaching as Jake makes it clear that it is refreshing to have clear communication and to have everyone buying into the system...the Nucks certainly play like a team where that is not the case.  Louie and Guddy's struggles to adapt to the systems (Guddy has stated as much and Eriksson is clearly struggling) could confirm that WD really is struggling with his approach at the NHL level.

 

I have not been happy with WD's deployment nor with how so many of our young guys are playing only because of injuries or because they "surprised" him with their play.  Many of our kids have succeeded despite being put in difficult positions or not being given the chance to really showcase themselves.

 

IF TG gets a chance to come the Vancouver as the head coach, I hope he will provide a better balance between playing the right way and in better utilizing the kids for their future development.