Alflives Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 48 minutes ago, Gooseberries said: I meant to put in recent memory but I must have missed it. That's my fault. But my point still stands. Playing 5-7 mins a night is no way to learn how to contribute in the NHL. Aaaaand you seem to forget the burrows and Kesler developed with the moose first... kinda like virtanen is doing now.... Do we agree then? Players often begin their learning in the AHL, then continue developing on the big clubs. Why would teams, like ours, have mentors, if not to guide (help develop) the younger guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gameburn2 Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 On 11/18/2016 at 4:51 PM, Alflives said: Watching Comets game. They are losing 2-0, but JV looks really good. He's so bloody big and fast he creates every time on the ice. He's defensively the first forward back too. He's WAY TOO GOOD for that league. This demotion must be a fitness thing. I haven't seem him play much. Is he looking like that now, almost a month later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 19 minutes ago, DIBdaQUIB said: It certainly sounds like Jake was confused under WD as to what was expected and that TG has done a very good job of getting inside his head and motivating him. WD was also known for getting the most out of his players when he was in junior but since coming to the NHL, he has made it clear that he is not into development and makes decisions regarding deployment based on winning now. That could be based on management's mandate but seems to conflict somewhat with what Trevor and JB have said about bringing the youngsters along. You cannot expect to add rookies and not develop them. Even McDavid and Matthews are learning at the NHL level. Still, Senior management seems to send conflicting messages about getting younger and faster yet still signing older vets (Eriksson, Miller) and refusing to move NTC players. Perhaps with such a contradictory approach to things, it is no surprise Jake - and likely a number of our players - are somewhat confused as to roles and the direction the team is heading. Jake's comments sound very positive but they could also be construed as a knock on WD"s coaching as Jake makes it clear that it is refreshing to have clear communication and to have everyone buying into the system...the Nucks certainly play like a team where that is not the case. Louie and Guddy's struggles to adapt to the systems (Guddy has stated as much and Eriksson is clearly struggling) could confirm that WD really is struggling with his approach at the NHL level. I have not been happy with WD's deployment nor with how so many of our young guys are playing only because of injuries or because they "surprised" him with their play. Many of our kids have succeeded despite being put in difficult positions or not being given the chance to really showcase themselves. IF TG gets a chance to come the Vancouver as the head coach, I hope he will provide a better balance between playing the right way and in better utilizing the kids for their future development. People need to keep in mind coaches have FAR, FAR more opportunity to teach at the AHL level. There's a WAY more practice time. That's one of the biggest reasons he was sent down. The amount of teaching and practice time he was getting at this level wasn't enough. That's not a 'fault' of WD's, it's a 'fault' of being at the NHL level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 2 hours ago, J.R. said: This has been explained before but it's not that there's no 'development' happening in the NHL. Clearly players continue to improve and 'develop' in the NHL. But they have to meet a certain minimal threshold for development. They have to have been developed in to bonafide NHL players to play at this level. Not all players develop at the same pace. Jake's not there yet. Most of the kids on ARZ/TOR are. And even then, you've got Nylander demoted to 4th line and Tippett pissed in ARZ as Goose mentioned. It's not all roses and lollipops. And neither team's's record is exactly a shining beacon of light on 'how to do things'. So again, what exactly is your question? Unfortunately some NHL orgs bring their kids to the NHL to attract fans. Their prospect depth is so thin they have no one else. Sounds Oily to me. Canucks did it for years. It is inevitable that these kids hit a wall and some do not recover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Red Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gooseberries said: Other than horvat name 1 high end prospect that developed into a top 6 forward from playing on the 4th line in the NHL... How's mccann doing? What's that? They don't want him rotting on the 4th line so theyou sent him to develop in a top 6 role in the ahl? Interesting... Even your precious leafs font use the 4th line to develop players. It's reserved for players like Matt martin and Ben smith. I'm not really disagreeing with you, but Frick n Frack come to mind. It's more about team philosophy. EDIT: I see you meant to say in the uber modern NHL. To that, gotta have a 2-3 year cushion there to see who actually comes out of it and sticks. Again not disagreeing with you, but maybe zoom out a little. Edited December 13, 2016 by Western Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 53 minutes ago, Alflives said: Do we agree then? Players often begin their learning in the AHL, then continue developing on the big clubs. Why would teams, like ours, have mentors, if not to guide (help develop) the younger guys? 1 hour ago, J.R. said: This has been explained before but it's not that there's no 'development' happening in the NHL. Clearly players continue to improve and 'develop' in the NHL. But they have to meet a certain minimal threshold for development. They have to have been developed in to bonafide NHL players to play at this level. Not all players develop at the same pace. Jake's not there yet. Most of the kids on ARZ/TOR are. And even then, you've got Nylander demoted to 4th line and Tippett pissed in ARZ as Goose mentioned. It's not all roses and lollipops. And neither team's's record is exactly a shining beacon of light on 'how to do things'. So again, what exactly is your question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 3 hours ago, b3. said: This just fuels my suspicions about WD's tactics with JV. Unless the the plan was to have a stern task master make him suffer to have the 'next' coach come in and build his confidence up and earn loyalty. Green could become Jakes Guru and their combined success could see both in the NHL next season. Ala AV coming up with Kesler, Beiska, Burrows and Edler. LOL... Master plan... EW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 He's saying the right things, let's hope it's for real and not just coached talking points. Getting him away from home may just have been the exact thing he needed, and maybe he's finally realized that at 20 it's time to get serious about his career. Jake is absolutely loaded with talent and potential, and seems to be a genuinely good kid with good parents. Hopefully they've finally got through to him and he's bought in. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB5 Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 17 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said: He's saying the right things, let's hope it's for real and not just coached talking points. Getting him away from home may just have been the exact thing he needed, and maybe he's finally realized that at 20 it's time to get serious about his career. Jake is absolutely loaded with talent and potential, and seems to be a genuinely good kid with good parents. Hopefully they've finally got through to him and he's bought in. Very true, the best thing for Jake is to be far away from this team right now and just play. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 10 hours ago, Hutton Wink said: He's saying the right things, let's hope it's for real and not just coached talking points. Getting him away from home may just have been the exact thing he needed, and maybe he's finally realized that at 20 it's time to get serious about his career. Jake is absolutely loaded with talent and potential, and seems to be a genuinely good kid with good parents. Hopefully they've finally got through to him and he's bought in. 10 hours ago, GarthButcher5 said: Very true, the best thing for Jake is to be far away from this team right now and just play. Yup, away from the fish bowl media, away from an NHL salary and notoriety and the temptation to the ego those things can fuel. Just playing hockey and actually having time to learn and practice. I wish we could have sent him to Utica last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 13 hours ago, Hutton Wink said: He's saying the right things, let's hope it's for real and not just coached talking points. Getting him away from home may just have been the exact thing he needed, and maybe he's finally realized that at 20 it's time to get serious about his career. Jake is absolutely loaded with talent and potential, and seems to be a genuinely good kid with good parents. Hopefully they've finally got through to him and he's bought in. One of my biggest concerns about Jake is the possibility that he 'talks the talk' well as he has been exposed to media from a young age. I am glad he is in Utica as much of that type of BS is muted. He has to compete for TOI and please a no BS coach like Green who has played the game at a high level. It is ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlinkas wrister Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 22 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said: Those quotes are extremely encouraging. Even though he wasn't my first choice, I definitely think Virtanen has the talent/ability to play in the NHL right now in a meaningful role and help us, but he needs to learn how to be a pro first, and it sounds like Travis is showing how to do that just like he has for others. Very encouraging. Exactly the cookie cutter kind of comments you want to hear from a pro, but I have no doubt that if it had been one of the "A-list" reporters from TSN or SN asking the questions that they would have been skewed to brew controversy. He's in a good place to develop both on and off the ice imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Building Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 5 minutes ago, hlinkas wrister said: Exactly the cookie cutter kind of comments you want to hear from a pro, but I have no doubt that if it had been one of the "A-list" reporters from TSN or SN asking the questions that they would have been skewed to brew controversy. He's in a good place to develop both on and off the ice imo. Agreed, I don't want to see him in a Nucks jersey until pre-season next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, Green Building said: Agreed, I don't want to see him in a Nucks jersey until pre-season next year. So right. Keep him away from the disaster here for sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlinkas wrister Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 8 minutes ago, Green Building said: Agreed, I don't want to see him in a Nucks jersey until pre-season next year. There really is nothing to be gained (other than for Jake financially). Let him be top dog for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, hlinkas wrister said: Exactly the cookie cutter kind of comments you want to hear from a pro, but I have no doubt that if it had been one of the "A-list" reporters from TSN or SN asking the questions that they would have been skewed to brew controversy. He's in a good place to develop both on and off the ice imo. I agree but at the same time I don't think he will spend the rest of the year down there, if he continues this for a good period of games while our team continues to not score or whatever may happen he will obviously be the next guy up if they need a call at that point. Although with Rodin coming back, its hard to say, you never know. I say keep him there until later in the year unless we need him up here for any reason, but only if he continues his consistency and shows he's getting it, if not he needs to stay down until he's proven that. Edited December 14, 2016 by Smashian Kassian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Another good game, another goal, looks like Virtanen is finally turning a corner so lets not rush him back to the NHL and ruin all this good work any time soon. Travis Green is doing a fantastic job building up this kid's confidence from zero. Hopefully he can do the same to Rodin and get him in the NHL. We may see Virtanen back with the Canucks when they need a hand but I'd rather we keep him in Utica all season long. Go from 15 minutes a night to slowly but surely top line 20 mins a night as their #1 guy which he almost is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Virtanen looking good so far. Had a partial breakaway and just missed the net. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 5 hours ago, Boudrias said: One of my biggest concerns about Jake is the possibility that he 'talks the talk' well as he has been exposed to media from a young age. Clearly you haven't seen/heard any of his recent Vancouver interviews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 43 minutes ago, Odd. said: Virtanen looking good so far. Had a partial breakaway and just missed the net. His confidence is high now, I could see him scoring again today. Whatever they do don't rush him back to the Canucks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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