Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[smokes]

8 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Misleading stats. Very few players can generate those type of stats in their first few years anymore. Its a completely different game and completely different goalie equipment. How many 50 goal scorers do we have in the league now compared to back then?

 

McDavid is possibly as good as Gretzky, but he'll never reach the same numbers. Players just don't score at the same rate as they used to. Unless the proposed changes to the goalie equipment really do what everyone is hoping.

 

The scoring pace may not be the same but that doesn't take away Linden leading the roster in scoring meaning he took it upon himself to make a difference every night. Take away the points and Linden still accomplished more as a player. At this stage of thier careers, Horvat is a good player and I think he will have a good future but not Linden good.

[VegasCanuck]

7 minutes ago, Alflives said:

And then McCabe got traded by Burke for the second Twin (Henrik). The Linden trade actually set up this team for its best series of seasons.  

There are times when you need to do something really bold to set the stage for future success. The problem is, its getting harder and harder to do that in the league.

 

With the Salary cap, it would be really difficult to make these trades happen. In today's market, Linden would be a 6 - 7 million per year guy. Most teams can't fit that into their space with just sending out a couple of Entry Level Contract guys and a draft pick. You'd have to take back a significant amount of salary as well.

 

I don't think we should move Daniel and Henrik unless they come to Benning next year and ask for one last chance to compete, but if we do, even at the deadline, fitting 12 million prorated into any competing teams space will be challenging. Even if we absorb 50% of remaining contract, it would still likely mean a contract dump or two coming back this way. Doable, but not easily.

 

Now, let's get back to talking about Virtanen, since this is really his thread!

 

6 Shots last night, looks like they hit a hot goalie and that was the big difference in the game. Good to see him getting the top minutes though and building his confidence. Really looking forward to his return to Vancouver with his game rounded out a little more.

 

[VegasCanuck]

1 minute ago, smokes said:

The scoring pace may not be the same but that doesn't take away Linden leading the roster in scoring meaning he took it upon himself to make a difference every night. Take away the points and Linden still accomplished more as a player. At this stage of thier careers, Horvat is a good player and I think he will have a good future but not Linden good.

Linden was also a winger and given more freedom to score and, because of a lack of depth at the top of the team at that time, was given a lot more minutes that Horvat was in his first year here.

 

Horvat was only playing 10 minutes a night in his first year, running the 4th line. Linden was quickly moved up to the 2nd line winger position and then 1st line, without as much focus on the defensive part of the game.

 

Linden was an incredible player, but look more closely at his numbers in the late 90's when he was still in his prime, but the goalie equipment was really beginning to change and he had been moved to center and given more defensive responsibility. Although they are different ages, Linden was mid 20's and Horvat is only 21 now, it more represents what was being asked of them at similar points in their careers.

 

 

[Darius]

44 minutes ago, smokes said:

First Three years of Linden

1988–89	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	80	30	29	59	41	7	3	4	7	8
1989–90	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	73	21	30	51	43	—	—	—	—	—
1990–91	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	80	33	37	70	65	6	0	7	7	2

 

 

First three years of Horvat

2014–15	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	68	13	12	25	16	6	1	3	4	2
2015–16	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	82	16	24	40	18	—	—	—	—	—

 

 

Linden was the youngest Captain of the Canucks. Linden went second overall, Horvat went 9th. Horvat doesn't come close.

Lol.

 

Come on.  When Linden played there were 5 foot 8 goalies that could be scored on with wooden sticks that produced slap shots from the blue line.  In today's NHL one could argue that a 50-55 pt player is a first line player.  You cant compare players by contrasting stats from those two eras.  im not saying Bo is better than Linden was, just saying its laughable to make the comparison based on stats.

 

Also the fact that you state, in a different post, that Bo is just an average player should be end of the discussion.  21 years old with no first unit PP time and not as many favourable o zone starts like those cream puff young guns in Calgary get, and hes on pace for 50+ points on a bad team. All while playing with a fossil on one wing and a project on the other wing.  Yeah, im sure there are 29 other teams that would love an average player like that.

 

Now back to the Jake discussions....if you want average Jake is a guy that has shown us nothing that willl make us believe he will be above average.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Darius71

[Ronaldoescobar]

35 minutes ago, smokes said:

First Three years of Linden

1988–89	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	80	30	29	59	41	7	3	4	7	8
1989–90	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	73	21	30	51	43	—	—	—	—	—
1990–91	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	80	33	37	70	65	6	0	7	7	2

 

 

First three years of Horvat

2014–15	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	68	13	12	25	16	6	1	3	4	2
2015–16	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	82	16	24	40	18	—	—	—	—	—

 

 

Linden was the youngest Captain of the Canucks. Linden went second overall, Horvat went 9th. Horvat doesn't come close.

Different era as scoring in this day is far far more difficult and those numbers back then would have been considered maybe a little above average. We dont see multiple 50-70 goal scorers anymore and goaltenders get as many shutouts in year as some would have had in a career back then.

 

Again, I am a fan of Linden's when he was a player and he was the heart and soul of the team no doubt about it.

[Ronaldoescobar]

46 minutes ago, Alflives said:

When Iron Mike Keenan traded Linden he got Bertuzzi and McCabe in return.  I love Bo, but don't see him returning that in trade.

We also have to remember that the NYI were run by a bunch of clowns back then who almost destroyed that franchise.

[dpn1]

I watched the highlights of Utica's game last night against the Bruins and even though Jake didn't score in the 3-1 loss he was skating real well.  I saw 3 good chance to score and some good physical play.  Good to see!!!  I hope the Canucks don't call him up yet.  Let him stay and have success.  Maybe bring him back after making some trades at the deadline.

[Phat Fingers]

13 hours ago, Alflives said:

When Iron Mike Keenan traded Linden he got Bertuzzi and McCabe in return.  I love Bo, but don't see him returning that in trade.

 

Wait a few more years when Bo starts putting up better numbers. I can see him being a 70 pt player or better, playing center, team Capt and a monster clutch playoff player.  He could get a better return. 

Edited December 23, 2016 by Eastcoast meets Westcoast

[Alflives]

17 minutes ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

 

Leaky a few more years when Bo starts putting up better numbers. I can see him being a 70 pt player or better, playing center, team Capt and a monster clutch playoff player.  He could get a better return. 

I love Bo too.  And if he becomes the player you describe, we will be a .Cup competitor.  

[SamJamIam]

8 hours ago, smokes said:

First Three years of Linden

1988–89	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	80	30	29	59	41	7	3	4	7	8
1989–90	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	73	21	30	51	43	—	—	—	—	—
1990–91	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	80	33	37	70	65	6	0	7	7	2

 

 

First three years of Horvat

2014–15	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	68	13	12	25	16	6	1	3	4	2
2015–16	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	82	16	24	40	18	—	—	—	—	—

 

 

Linden was the youngest Captain of the Canucks. Linden went second overall, Horvat went 9th. Horvat doesn't come close.

 

Look at Henrik Sedin's first 3 years vs Horvat and you'll see just how good Bo is.

[hlinkas wrister]

wrong thread lol

Edited December 23, 2016 by hlinkas wrister

[Rollieo Del Fuego]

9 hours ago, smokes said:

Linden was the first Canucks rookie to score thirty goals. Horvat? 10. First Canucks rookie to win the Cyclone Taylor award for Canuck MVP. Linden took over Captaincy at 21.  Led the Canucks to thier first Divisional title since 74. Led the Canucks in points from rookie until Bure. What did Horvat do?

 

....just watch....

[smokes]

4 minutes ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said:

 

....just watch....

That's what they said about Cody.

[Jonald]

3 hours ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

 

Leaky a few more years when Bo starts putting up better numbers. I can see him being a 70 pt player or better, playing center, team Capt and a monster clutch playoff player.  He could get a better return. 

Of course, If Bo becomes the next gen toews/bergeron he could be just as valuable as Mcdavid.

[TheSnipeshow91]

1 hour ago, smokes said:

That's what they said about Cody.

That's just an absolute terrible comparison. Bo has the maturity and character that cody never had.

[Where'd Luongo?]

Soooo... How about that Virtanen?

[Green Goblin]

2 hours ago, Where'd Luongo? said:

Soooo... How about that Virtanen?

He's gonna evolve into Blake Wheeler next season.

[TheGuardian_]

So......what about Jake? Is he so bad the talk has to be about BO and Linden?

[coryberg]

11 hours ago, TheSnipeshow91 said:

That's just an absolute terrible comparison. Bo has the maturity and character that cody never had.

Not to mention size, speed and 2 way play.

[Ronaldoescobar]

52 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

So......what about Jake? Is he so bad the talk has to be about BO and Linden?

Its a scary thought for sure....