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Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW


avelanch

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either he breaks out or he goes to the farm for a year or two to develop. Right now his numbers in the whl are not as impressive.

I've watched a couple hitmen games. Virtanen has been pretty unimpressive imo. Wasn't creating any chances, was losing puck battles a lot to smaller players and was overall not that noticable until he made a big hit.

Hopefully it's rust but he has definitely not impressed me in the games I've seen myself.

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I think it goes by age rather than seasons because in the OHL some are given the "exceptional player status".

For example, John Tavares had already played 4 season in the CHL going into his draft, but it's not like he would have been eligible for the AHL if he didn't make the NHL right away that year.

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I think it goes by age rather than seasons because in the OHL some are given the "exceptional player status".

For example, John Tavares had already played 4 season in the CHL going into his draft, but it's not like he would have been eligible for the AHL if he didn't make the NHL right away that year.

its both. the earlier of age 20 on dec 31st of that season, or 4 years in the chl, but kids who get the exceptional status are typically in the nhl already before the 4 years are up.

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I know im going to get flamed for this. Especially by deniro.

While I'm not panicking. And I won't go into a rant on who we should have picked because I'm not a professional, and iI flip flopped my favored pick numerous times. I will say that so far virtanens lack of production has been alarming.

Many will come to virtanens aid with "he's learning both sides of the game" (which i dont buy into at all) and "hes coming off a major surgery (many players come off injury and production immediately, especially in junior where he should be dominating).

He has 3 goals since coming back. 4 if you wish to include the super series. Out of those 4, I know 2 were gimmes (superseries and garbage triple deflection rebound goal).

Does anyone else share this feeling right now? Can anyone provide me with more insight asto why his production is lacking (other than the excuses I mentioned above).

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I know im going to get flamed for this. Especially by deniro.

While I'm not panicking. And I won't go into a rant on who we should have picked because I'm not a professional, and iI flip flopped my favored pick numerous times. I will say that so far virtanens lack of production has been alarming.

Many will come to virtanens aid with "he's learning both sides of the game" (which i dont buy into at all) and "hes coming off a major surgery (many players come off injury and production immediately, especially in junior where he should be dominating).

He has 3 goals since coming back. 4 if you wish to include the super series. Out of those 4, I know 2 were gimmes (superseries and garbage triple deflection rebound goal).

Does anyone else share this feeling right now? Can anyone provide me with more insight asto why his production is lacking (other than the excuses I mentioned above).

For me I don't think it's the injury per say, but the lack of training it cause. Most high profile players like him had a summer of training to get ready for NHL camps, NHL training camps, junior camps and the start of the season.

Virtanen missed all that, so while the whole league is cruising to their peak (usually teams/players gets well oiled in December/January) Virtanen is basically still in training camp mode.

He had a few good performances at the starts because of the adrenaline, but now once that's gone you start to notice the difference (out of sync, cardio not optimal, team system is not as automatic as for other players).

If he doesn't pick it up after Christmas, then it might be a concern but for now not really (other than a slow start might cost him a spot at the WJC).

Edited by timberz21
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For me I don't think it's the injury per say, but the lack of training it cause. Most high profile players like him had a summer of training to get ready for NHL camps, NHL training camps, junior camps and the start of the season.

Virtanen missed all that, so while the whole league is cruising to their peak (usually teams/players gets well oiled in December/January) Virtanen is basically still in training camp mode.

He had a few good performances at the starts because of the adrenaline, but now once that's gone you start to notice the difference (out of sync, cardio not optimal, team system is not as automatic as for other players).

If he doesn't pick it up after Christmas, then it might be a concern but for now not really (other than a slow start might cost him a spot at the WJC).

do you watch many hitmen games? Could you provide insight on his ice time? Pk1? Pk2? No pk? Pp1? Pp2? Linemates?
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its both. the earlier of age 20 on dec 31st of that season, or 4 years in the chl, but kids who get the exceptional status are typically in the nhl already before the 4 years are up.

Ah I see.

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I know im going to get flamed for this. Especially by deniro.

While I'm not panicking. And I won't go into a rant on who we should have picked because I'm not a professional, and iI flip flopped my favored pick numerous times. I will say that so far virtanens lack of production has been alarming.

Many will come to virtanens aid with "he's learning both sides of the game" (which i dont buy into at all) and "hes coming off a major surgery (many players come off injury and production immediately, especially in junior where he should be dominating).

He has 3 goals since coming back. 4 if you wish to include the super series. Out of those 4, I know 2 were gimmes (superseries and garbage triple deflection rebound goal).

Does anyone else share this feeling right now? Can anyone provide me with more insight asto why his production is lacking (other than the excuses I mentioned above).

For me I don't think it's the injury per say, but the lack of training it cause. Most high profile players like him had a summer of training to get ready for NHL camps, NHL training camps, junior camps and the start of the season.

Virtanen missed all that, so while the whole league is cruising to their peak (usually teams/players gets well oiled in December/January) Virtanen is basically still in training camp mode.

He had a few good performances at the starts because of the adrenaline, but now once that's gone you start to notice the difference (out of sync, cardio not optimal, team system is not as automatic as for other players).

If he doesn't pick it up after Christmas, then it might be a concern but for now not really (other than a slow start might cost him a spot at the WJC).

I'm not going to flame you, Gooseberries. Your concerns are very valid. It's frustrating when you check a top prospect's team, only to discover that he had 0 to 1 point while his team had at least 5 goals in the game. We saw this same movie with Shinkaruk last year, only Shinks was struggling before his hip surgery and not after. Both were 40-goal guys in the WHL.

However, I'm not surprised by JV's lack of production. Like timberz21 said, JV lost a good summer of training. I haven't seen him play but it may appear that his timing is off due to rust. He is doing other things to contribute, though.

I would hope that next season, he is back with the Hitmen so he can dominate.

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I too am concerned Virtanen might not turn out that the way we hope. Full disclosure, I was a big fan of Virtanen going into the draft and wanted the Canucks to draft him. The one concern I had last year was his assist totals. He played with good linemates last year, mostly Brassart and Chase. The fact that he had relatively low assist totals led me to believe perhaps his linemates were driving his production not the other way around.

I know it is early and he is recovering from surgery but it is relatively easy to be over a PPG player in the CHL, especially if you are a first round draft pick. His relatively poor start isn't the reason for my concern, it's more that his numbers last year may have been inflated by his linemates.

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For me I don't think it's the injury per say, but the lack of training it cause. Most high profile players like him had a summer of training to get ready for NHL camps, NHL training camps, junior camps and the start of the season.

Virtanen missed all that, so while the whole league is cruising to their peak (usually teams/players gets well oiled in December/January) Virtanen is basically still in training camp mode.

He had a few good performances at the starts because of the adrenaline, but now once that's gone you start to notice the difference (out of sync, cardio not optimal, team system is not as automatic as for other players).

If he doesn't pick it up after Christmas, then it might be a concern but for now not really (other than a slow start might cost him a spot at the WJC).

Don't be concerned people, this explanation is the reality.

Reevaluate after Christmas.

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We're not "stuck with" anyone.

You say that like you already know what each players ceiling will be.

Everyone complains that we can't compete with LA, but then want us to draft Ehlers or Nylander? That doesn't add up.

We can't compete with LA because we don't have as many good players as them. Thus, I wanted us to draft the player with the most potential to be a good player, which was Nylander. That would increase our chances of having good players, and therefore help us compete against LA and other good teams.

It adds up pretty well!

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Having said that, I think it's (obviously) too early to be really discouraged by Virtanen's performance. One, it's a super small sample size, and two, he's coming off of injury.

On the other hand, if he DOES stagnate in production this year, it would definitely validate some of the pre-draft criticisms of Virtanen, specifically that his linemates were driving his production, and that his goal scoring was the result on an unsustainably high shooting percentage. So those storylines definitely bear watching.

The good thing is that Virtanen is still so young, so a poor post-draft season wouldn't be nearly as discouraging for him as for a lot of prospects. His 2015-16 CHL season will be really interesting.

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We can't compete with LA because we don't have as many good players as them. Thus, I wanted us to draft the player with the most potential to be a good player, which was Nylander. That would increase our chances of having good players, and therefore help us compete against LA and other good teams.

It adds up pretty well!

LA has good players that are big, fast, and play with an edge.

Nylander is neither big, nor plays with an edge.

It's not just about taking the player that has the most skill. It's a package of a bunch of different qualities.

LA gets that, and that's why they're as good as they are now.

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LA has good players that are big, fast, and play with an edge.

Nylander is neither big, nor plays with an edge.

It's not just about taking the player that has the most skill. It's a package of a bunch of different qualities.

LA gets that, and that's why they're as good as they are now.

In a perfect world, the BPA for us would be have an enticing package of skill, size, and tenacity.

However, that wasn't the case in the last draft. The first 5 picks were obvious and the 6th could have realistically gone to a number of different prospects, all of which lacked and offered something.

Nylander offers a whole other level of skill. While his size is an area of concern, I feel like that is being overstated, especially when he's doing well in Modo against full grown men.

I'm also cautious about criticizing JV this early in the season but I find it completely clueless to resort to criticizing Nylander in JV's defence when he's ripping it up in a better league.

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I too am concerned Virtanen might not turn out that the way we hope. Full disclosure, I was a big fan of Virtanen going into the draft and wanted the Canucks to draft him. The one concern I had last year was his assist totals. He played with good linemates last year, mostly Brassart and Chase. The fact that he had relatively low assist totals led me to believe perhaps his linemates were driving his production not the other way around.

I know it is early and he is recovering from surgery but it is relatively easy to be over a PPG player in the CHL, especially if you are a first round draft pick. His relatively poor start isn't the reason for my concern, it's more that his numbers last year may have been inflated by his linemates.

I read a similar sentiment quite a few pages back -- albeit about him playing with overagers, which is still related -- and replied with the following. These are some excerpts from my stupidly long post that day:

I heard this somewhere before, but another person had come and rebutted this. I was really curious about this, so I went and looked at EVERY goal that Virtanen scored last year to check the assists. From the player who assisted on MOST of the goals to LEAST. I have included their ages (entering the season) and position in brackets next to the players' names. Sorry it's a little difficult to read. Also, I've left asterisks next to the overagers.

-[19/D] Helgesen - 13

*[20/C] Brassart - 9

-[19/D] Rissling - 9

-[17/LW] Fazleev - 6

-[18/C] Tambellini - 6

-[19/RW] Padakin - 5

-[17/D] Sanheim - 4

-[19/LW] Jones - 4

-[18/LW] Rankin - 3

*[20/D] Roach - 2

*[20/D] Zgraggen - 1

-[17/D] Thrower - 1

-[19/LW] Brooks - 1

-[18/D] Harmsworth - 1

-[19/RW] Mahon - 1

-[16/RW] Lang - 1

-[18/C] Chase - 1

-[18/LW] Peterson - 1

Unassisted - 4

Brassart and Chase played together -- they were involved in many goals together -- but the latter player only assisted on 1 of VIrtanen's 45 goals all season. Sort of leads me to believe that they weren't a line like people may think is the case.

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