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Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW


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I think a good comparable to Virtanen right now would be Andrew Ladd

 

Ladd also started off his career very slow. Much slower than Virtanen's and he was a former 4th overall pick. Never dominated in junior, in fact, had a terrible post draft year. Didn't start producing until his +5 draft year after being traded and even still continued to struggle with consistency. It wasn't until his mid 20's did Ladd start producing consistently. 

 

 

 

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I doubt Jake can be fixed.  Very low hockey IQ can't be fixed.

Maybe he can modify his game to be able to be a third liner who pots a goal once in awhile, and plays physical.

I could be wrong of course.  But the fact he can't score in the AHL says I am not.

 

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3 hours ago, Odd. said:

I think a good comparable to Virtanen right now would be Andrew Ladd

 

Ladd also started off his career very slow. Much slower than Virtanen's and he was a former 4th overall pick. Never dominated in junior, in fact, had a terrible post draft year. Didn't start producing until his +5 draft year after being traded and even still continued to struggle with consistency. It wasn't until his mid 20's did Ladd start producing consistently. 

 

 

 

um why look at ladd

he was never part of this organization

review bertuzzi's history . he is a power forward as well

and was traded before he hit his stride

 

it is a fairly common suggestion

that dmen take longer to develop

power forwards take longer to develop

and goalies take even longer to develop

 

so what describes virt best?

mmmmmm?

 

so give him time

patience people

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8 hours ago, Alflives said:

The point is a lot of the best players actually show signs of being special before 20.  Jake had that 20 games last season, right about now, where he did show he could dominate shifts.  He's regressed since then, which is a real shame.  

More of  a product of his environment Alf...just like you...You were slaying pussy when you first got to Earth and then you moved in with that family and got soft.

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17 hours ago, Drakrami said:

Some guys are late bloomers? List some names. 

Not sure if this is a serious question. But here some names of classic late bloomers (forwards only, D's in general develop later):

 

1. Dustin Penner -- had a good year in the AHL at age 23 followed by five years scoring at a solid second line level. And he came up big in LA's 2012 Cup victory.

2. Matt Moulsen -- had good years in the AHL in his draft+4 and draft+5 and draft +6 years, then had three 30-goal seasons in a row in the NHL. 

3. Martin St. Louis -- did not break through until age 25 with Tampa, then had a great career.

4. We all know about Alex Burrows.

 

Of course Penner, Moulsen and Burrows were not real "stars", but they were valuable players and we would be delighted to get that level of performance from Virtanen.

 

8 hours ago, Alflives said:

The point is a lot of the best players actually show signs of being special before 20.  Jake had that 20 games last season, right about now, where he did show he could dominate shifts.  He's regressed since then, which is a real shame.  

Alf is right. Despite the fact that some guys are late bloomers (as with the examples listed above), genuine future stars almost always show something significant by their draft+3 year, at least at the AHL level. A few make the NHL in their draft+1 year and put up decent numbers. The others usually put up big numbers in Junior or college. Quite a few do well in the NHL in their  draft+2 years. And these real stars almost always make good progress in the draft+1, draft+2 and draft+3 years and can play well at the NHL level by their draft+3 years. We can think of players in this category from the last few drafts: Mathews, Laine, McDavid, Draisaitl, Ehlers, Nylander, Bennett, Reinhart, Larkin, MacKinnon, Barkov, Drouin, Monahan, etc.  Those guys are mostly higher picks than Virtanen of course. The point is that future stars usually do show something early in their careers.

 

The chances of Virtanen being a future star or even a future legitimate first liner are low based on his development so far. But he could still become a very useful player at the NHL level. 

 

 

5 hours ago, The 5th Line said:

At least now he is consistently getting a few shots on goal each game.  That's a start

I noticed the same thing, VIrtanen is getting shots on goals. He is also not getting many goals scored against him. He just needs to keep his head down, stay out of the limelight, work hard, and we will see what happens. I am not all that optimistic but he could still develop into a legitimate top 6 NHL forward. I think it is fairly likely that he can at least develop into a useful bottom 6 player at the NHL level.

 

4 hours ago, Odd. said:

I think a good comparable to Virtanen right now would be Andrew Ladd

 

Ladd also started off his career very slow. Much slower than Virtanen's and he was a former 4th overall pick. Never dominated in junior, in fact, had a terrible post draft year. Didn't start producing until his +5 draft year after being traded and even still continued to struggle with consistency. It wasn't until his mid 20's did Ladd start producing consistently. 

 

 

 

I agree that Ladd is another late bloomer who might be a good comparison.

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14 hours ago, Odd. said:

I think a good comparable to Virtanen right now would be Andrew Ladd

 

Ladd also started off his career very slow. Much slower than Virtanen's and he was a former 4th overall pick. Never dominated in junior, in fact, had a terrible post draft year. Didn't start producing until his +5 draft year after being traded and even still continued to struggle with consistency. It wasn't until his mid 20's did Ladd start producing consistently. 

 

 

 

Hmm... Played for the Hitman as well. Won a CUP with the Hawks. Sounds good.

I see Virtanen as a solid 3rd liner if Green can reground his game into a solid defender with a physical side. Jake's much vaunted physical game is not a regular part of his play from what I can see. Some have questioned his shoulder and I am doing the same. He has great speed and if his defensive game is solid he could be a real threat off his wing. I have complete confidence that Green can coach him in this direction.

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10 hours ago, JamesB said:

The chances of Virtanen being a future star or even a future legitimate first liner are low based on his development so far.

I'm not sure why people are so obsessed with this being the case? Who was honestly expecting that from a 6th overall? !

 

At 6th overall you hope for a solid top 9 player. If you manage a legit 'star', it's considered pretty damn lucky. 

 

I'd say anyone expecting something like an 'Ovie' says a lot more about this fanbase's out of whack expectations than it does about Virtanen or his somewhat rocky development path so far. 

 

There's nothing wrong with him eventually developing in to a big, fast, tough and complimentary offense guy which is still easily within reach with some good development the next 2-3 years. 

 

It may not be as 'sexy' as a smaller, slick sniper but those guys can and do help win cups. 

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1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

I have complete confidence that Green can coach him in this direction.

HFBoards poster "Bad Goalie" wrote an excellent piece on Green's methodology and the results this approach has had with Utica's young players: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showpost.php?p=126866373&postcount=689

 

Green starts out pretty hands off. Gives the player lots of rope to succeed or fail on their own. And lets these experiences of success and failure really sink in with the player before he starts making corrections and pulling back on the rope. 

 

So you see Jake getting used in several different roles and with various linemates, and these conditions all offer different potentials to expose strengths and weaknesses and offer learning experiences.

 

You also see Green throwing Jake back out after he's made a mistake or had a really lacklustre shift. Gives the player the opportunity to erase his mistake, or show whether or not he even recognizes he did something wrong.

 

Ideally this creates a point where the player is extremely receptive to criticism. The player recognizes that he needs help. He sees that he has difficiencies in his game and is eager to learn how to correct them. At that point, the really hands on coaching starts to happen. And the results tend to be dramatic and often can come rather quickly.

 

The player becomes very ready, almost itching, to learn. And the coach has a ton of game observed data to work with. This approach requires a lot of patience from the coach and a development focus from the team. 

 

Utica and Green can provide this for Virtanen, whereas Vancouver and Desjardins could not. Hopefully Jake will become another one of Green's success stories (the other are laid out rather well in the Bad Goalie post linked earlier).

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19 hours ago, DontMessMe said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/canucks/comments/5nwrw6/in_the_last_six_games_demko_has_more_points_than/

 

LOL 

 

Demko has more points than Virt in the last 6 games

Is this not a testament to how good Demko is, not how bad Jake is?

Demko may actually be our top prospect, and likely has been since we drafted him. He's a star in the making.

Him leapfrogging Jake in terms of being a fan favourite is likely a very good thing for this organization.

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1 minute ago, nergish said:

Is this not a testament to how good Demko is, not how bad Jake is?

Demko may actually be our top prospect, and likely has been since we drafted him. He's a star in the making.

Him leapfrogging Jake in terms of being a fan favourite is likely a very good thing for this organization.

Demko also has more points than Boeser in the AHL, clearly Boeser is a bust too, right? 

 

Am I CDC'ing right now? 

 

:bigblush:

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  • -Vintage Canuck- changed the title to Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW
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