hatedkid666 Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Virtanen is very solid defensively, adds an amazing and much needed physical presence, plus he will be adding 50-60 points in his prime if you guys give the kid a break and let him develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 9 minutes ago, Alflives said: Shouldn't we have lofty expectations for a sixth overall pick. Look at what Calgary got with their two recent sixth overall picks: Monaghan and Tkatchuk. We got a friggin dud. you still calling him a dud???? how long have you watched hockey??? most first round draft picks take years to make the big club and guess what??That is exactly what Jake will need so he is a player that will help the future long as he gets lots of playing time. 2 examples Bertuzzi and Neely both the same tipe of player and like said over 100 times power forwards most like D men need time to grow so give him the time and judge him in two years after this one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, cripplereh said: you still calling him a dud???? how long have you watched hockey??? most first round draft picks take years to make the big club and guess what??That is exactly what Jake will need so he is a player that will help the future long as he gets lots of playing time. 2 examples Bertuzzi and Neely both the same tipe of player and like said over 100 times power forwards most like D men need time to grow so give him the time and judge him in two years after this one! And what if Jake shows up to his fourth training camp in a row fat and out of shape? Does he still get two more tries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, Alflives said: And what if Jake shows up to his fourth training camp in a row fat and out of shape? Does he still get two more tries? wow settle down some and think instead of asking useless questions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 21 minutes ago, Alflives said: Shouldn't we have lofty expectations for a sixth overall pick. Look at what Calgary got with their two recent sixth overall picks: Monaghan and Tkatchuk. We got a friggin dud. You're a dud. At least other poster on these forums use facts and logic to back unpopular opinions. You spout bull and "what ifs" due to what I can only assume is some child like hatred on some players. I wonder what percent of this forum has already done what I didn't want to do, but now have to, and utilize the ignore function. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 3 hours ago, stawns said: are you f'n serious with this post? Yup, I am right there with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 13 minutes ago, Alflives said: And what if Jake shows up to his fourth training camp in a row fat and out of shape? Does he still get two more tries? Wait and see if he does and then post that crap. Can we wait before condemning our second highest drafted player since the Sedins. The kid is just 20. As a fan base, we will rue the day we drive this guy out of town, only to see him flourish somewhere else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 32 minutes ago, cripplereh said: you still calling him a dud???? how long have you watched hockey??? most first round draft picks take years to make the big club and guess what??That is exactly what Jake will need so he is a player that will help the future long as he gets lots of playing time. 2 examples Bertuzzi and Neely both the same tipe of player and like said over 100 times power forwards most like D men need time to grow so give him the time and judge him in two years after this one! Why do people keep mentioning these guys when it's been proven time and again that they were on another level. Jesus. The least you could do is check their first two seasons' stats before posting this crap again. Neely: 31, 39 points. Bert: 39, 23 points. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Just now, guntrix said: Why do people keep mentioning these guys when it's been proven time and again that they were on another level. Jesus. The least you could do is check their first two seasons' stats before posting this crap again. Neely: 31, 39 points. Bert: 39, 23 points. same as you with these stats when they got older they got way better and more playing time made them better and that is what I am saying if you read so yes I can compare and justify it,if you have a problem with stats and comparing that is just great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, cripplereh said: same as you with these stats when they got older they got way better and more playing time made them better and that is what I am saying if you read so yes I can compare and justify it,if you have a problem with stats and comparing that is just great! Okay so your point is that they both got better as they got older.... lmao. Insightful af 10/10. You should apply to TSN. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 yes took them years before they became great players far as TSN your reply is like one of Bob's which are all laughable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 22 minutes ago, cripplereh said: yes took them years before they became great players far as TSN your reply is like one of Bob's which are all laughable Bob as in Bob Mackenzie? I am sure guntrix will take that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 from what I know Bob says what everyone already knows and brings nothing new so ok then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) 27 minutes ago, cripplereh said: from what I know Bob says what everyone already knows and brings nothing new so ok then But he knows more hockey than any of us. He's actually quite insightful. Edited February 10, 2017 by Odd. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLapierreAwesomeFace Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) http://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/ed-willes-virtanens-ahl-time-is-a-wake-up-call-says-benning?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter "In some respects, this story is as old as the red line. Hotshot prospect comes to team armed with press clippings and hotshot prospect experiences some early success, which only adds to the hype. But hotshot prospect soon finds out playing in the NHL is a lot more demanding than anyone let on. The game that was always so easy for him is suddenly a struggle. Everything, in fact, is a struggle. Eventually he’s sent to the minors, where he has to reassess his priorities. Sometimes he comes out the other side a better player. Sometimes he never reclaims that early promise. I mean, how many times have you read that story in connection with the Canucks? Does the name Cody Hodgson ring any bells? How about Jordan Schroeder? Josh Holden? No matter how good they look, you never know what you have because you’re never certain what’s inside the kid. Which brings us around to Jake Virtanen. The sixth-overall pick in the 2014 draft is currently playing for the Utica Comets and if his stint in the minors is helping develop his game, it doesn’t exactly show in his statistics: 34 games, 5-4-9 and minus seven. It’s a chilling set of numbers and it raises a number of uncomfortable questions for the player and the organization. Virtanen, after all, was supposed to be a cornerstone piece for a rebuilding organization. Now? Well, like we said, this story can go a couple of different ways. “The problem with Jake is he’s never had any adversity in his career,” Canucks general manager Jim Benning said over the phone from Sweden, where he’s scouting the Five Nations U18 tournament. “He’s always been able to sail along on his talent. “This is a wake-up call. He’s learning how to be a pro and that’s in the weight room, his nutrition and his workouts. With him it’s about his habits, his day-to-day habits. He’s taking ownership of that.” Benning pauses. “I’m not concerned. He’s going to be fine. This was the best thing for him.” On that point we shall see. Despite the story Virtanen’s numbers tell, Benning believes the 20-year-old from Abbotsford has benefited greatly from his time in Utica, N.Y. The Canucks’ GM said he’s getting a chance to play 16 to 18 minutes a game in all situations and he’s getting more practice time than he would with the Canucks. He also said his game has matured under the tutelage of Comets head coach Travis Green. “This was better for his long-term development,” said Benning. But a season in Utica wasn’t part of the long-term plan for Virtanen. Last season, he went 7-6-13 in 55 games with the Canucks and, after an unfortunate turn at the World Juniors, was a fixture in the lineup. Those are promising numbers for a 19-year-old power forward and the presumption was he would take another step toward stardom this season. You know what happened next. The problem, according to Benning, is Virtanen thought he had to be bigger to play the power game and showed up at camp weighing 228 pounds, setting off alarm bells throughout the organization. The extra weight hurt Virtanen’s speed. It also impaired his conditioning and it soon became apparent there was a problem. Virtanen struggled through training camp and the first 10 games of the Canucks’ season before he was dispatched to Utica, called up for a couple of games, then sent back in early November. “In his own mind he wanted to play at that size, but the game is so fast now,” said Benning. “He has to be quick. He could only go for a 30-, 35-second shift. Now he’s down to 216 (pounds) and goes a minute hard.” But how could a young pro struggle with a weight problem? “There are no issues with him off the ice,” said Benning. “It’s just a thing where he needs to mature and learn how to be a pro. We have a certain standard. He needs to get to that standard.” Benning continued. “I know the media is saying he’s not scoring, so he’s not developing. But I think Travis is happy with the way he’s playing. He’s playing physical and taking pucks to the net. “The scoring part will come. For Jake it’s learning how to play the right way.” So will we see him in Vancouver this year? “The only way we’ll call him up is if we get injuries and he can play regularly,” said Benning, who added: “This whole thing is part of the development. There are going to be ups-and-downs with a player. Some of the guys we mentioned (William Nylander, Nik Ehlers, Dylan Larkin, Robby Fabbri, who were drafted behind Virtanen) are playing and helping their teams. Jake’s path is different, but once we get him to the level he needs to be, he’s going to help our team.” And that would give this story the happy ending everyone is hoping for." Really great article as to why Virtanen may have had struggles this year. Edited February 10, 2017 by MaxLapierreAwesomeFace 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 1 minute ago, The 5th Line said: Well the trainers were working with him during the summer so if they noticed him gaining that much weight you would think that somebody would tell him that it's not a good idea. It's almost like Benning threw him under the bus by saying Jake himself thought he needed to be bigger... Well how about give the kid some guidance? I was also wondering the same thing. Pretty sure management had told media that Virtanen was being watched over during the off-season and that the trainers were going to monitor his weight. So how does he come to training camp out of shape, strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 The report says he weighed 228 pounds, it does not say he was fat. It would seem he put on too much muscle in the wrong places and his speed could not keep up to his increase in weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 48 minutes ago, MaxLapierreAwesomeFace said: http://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/ed-willes-virtanens-ahl-time-is-a-wake-up-call-says-benning?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter "In some respects, this story is as old as the red line. Hotshot prospect comes to team armed with press clippings and hotshot prospect experiences some early success, which only adds to the hype. But hotshot prospect soon finds out playing in the NHL is a lot more demanding than anyone let on. The game that was always so easy for him is suddenly a struggle. Everything, in fact, is a struggle. Eventually he’s sent to the minors, where he has to reassess his priorities. Sometimes he comes out the other side a better player. Sometimes he never reclaims that early promise. I mean, how many times have you read that story in connection with the Canucks? Does the name Cody Hodgson ring any bells? How about Jordan Schroeder? Josh Holden? No matter how good they look, you never know what you have because you’re never certain what’s inside the kid. Which brings us around to Jake Virtanen. The sixth-overall pick in the 2014 draft is currently playing for the Utica Comets and if his stint in the minors is helping develop his game, it doesn’t exactly show in his statistics: 34 games, 5-4-9 and minus seven. It’s a chilling set of numbers and it raises a number of uncomfortable questions for the player and the organization. Virtanen, after all, was supposed to be a cornerstone piece for a rebuilding organization. Now? Well, like we said, this story can go a couple of different ways. “The problem with Jake is he’s never had any adversity in his career,” Canucks general manager Jim Benning said over the phone from Sweden, where he’s scouting the Five Nations U18 tournament. “He’s always been able to sail along on his talent. “This is a wake-up call. He’s learning how to be a pro and that’s in the weight room, his nutrition and his workouts. With him it’s about his habits, his day-to-day habits. He’s taking ownership of that.” Benning pauses. “I’m not concerned. He’s going to be fine. This was the best thing for him.” On that point we shall see. Despite the story Virtanen’s numbers tell, Benning believes the 20-year-old from Abbotsford has benefited greatly from his time in Utica, N.Y. The Canucks’ GM said he’s getting a chance to play 16 to 18 minutes a game in all situations and he’s getting more practice time than he would with the Canucks. He also said his game has matured under the tutelage of Comets head coach Travis Green. “This was better for his long-term development,” said Benning. But a season in Utica wasn’t part of the long-term plan for Virtanen. Last season, he went 7-6-13 in 55 games with the Canucks and, after an unfortunate turn at the World Juniors, was a fixture in the lineup. Those are promising numbers for a 19-year-old power forward and the presumption was he would take another step toward stardom this season. You know what happened next. The problem, according to Benning, is Virtanen thought he had to be bigger to play the power game and showed up at camp weighing 228 pounds, setting off alarm bells throughout the organization. The extra weight hurt Virtanen’s speed. It also impaired his conditioning and it soon became apparent there was a problem. Virtanen struggled through training camp and the first 10 games of the Canucks’ season before he was dispatched to Utica, called up for a couple of games, then sent back in early November. “In his own mind he wanted to play at that size, but the game is so fast now,” said Benning. “He has to be quick. He could only go for a 30-, 35-second shift. Now he’s down to 216 (pounds) and goes a minute hard.” But how could a young pro struggle with a weight problem? “There are no issues with him off the ice,” said Benning. “It’s just a thing where he needs to mature and learn how to be a pro. We have a certain standard. He needs to get to that standard.” Benning continued. “I know the media is saying he’s not scoring, so he’s not developing. But I think Travis is happy with the way he’s playing. He’s playing physical and taking pucks to the net. “The scoring part will come. For Jake it’s learning how to play the right way.” So will we see him in Vancouver this year? “The only way we’ll call him up is if we get injuries and he can play regularly,” said Benning, who added: “This whole thing is part of the development. There are going to be ups-and-downs with a player. Some of the guys we mentioned (William Nylander, Nik Ehlers, Dylan Larkin, Robby Fabbri, who were drafted behind Virtanen) are playing and helping their teams. Jake’s path is different, but once we get him to the level he needs to be, he’s going to help our team.” And that would give this story the happy ending everyone is hoping for." Really great article as to why Virtanen may have had struggles this year. Thanks for posting. Great article and sounds like a lot of the things some of us have been saying.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 On 2/8/2017 at 10:09 AM, Mr.53 said: Like it or not, Jake is looking like he was a bad pick. I'm not going to come in here and pretend, I was a big Jake Virtanen supporter. I believed that he could have been an Evander Kane type of player without the off ice issues. Serious skill is good, but you also need impact powerforwards on your team. Maybe Jake will turn it around, and I think/hope he will, but as it stands right now, he's looking more like a maybe when it comes to becoming a top 6 forward and other guys like Ehlers and Nylander are looking more like sure things and on their way to becoming all star superstars. Imagine a Ehlers - Horvat - Boeser line... That's a real top 6 line that can do damage. But anyway. If I had to rerank/redraft Jakes draft today. Aaron Ekblad (An absolute two-way beast since day 1. He may be struggling, but number 1 Defensemen don't grow on trees) Leon Draisaitl (Honestly the closest to making a case for number 1. If not for McDavid, he'd be the number 1 center) Sam Reinhart (Beast player and coming along well. Plays well with different guys. Should be a top scorer soon.) Nik Ehlers (Incredibly speed, skill, and offensive ability. One of, if not the best pure offensive talent) David Pasternak (Huge sleeper making a case to be a top 5 pick. Great two-way and offensive skill) Dylan Larkin (Also a huge sleeper. Struggling a bit this season, but has shown incredible two-way ability) Willie Nylander (Similar to Ehlers in being an incredible offensive talent. Not as good as Ehlers but close.) Sam Bennett (Good two-way player that is still waiting to breakout. Shows flashes of greatness) Nick Ritchie (Might deserve to be lower, but he's showing he can play on the NHL level and is still an irreplaceable talent, adding value) Robby Fabbri (Great offensive player who has risen. He is small and fragile, as well as not the best defender, but he's not bad either.) Brandon Perlini (Big body who has honestly shocked me with how well he's done. We'll see if he continues.) Kasperi Kapenen (Great talent who has shown he has mastered the AHL. He will move up soon to see if he can put it together.) Jake Virtanen (Still an incredible raw talent, but has taken major steps back in putting the overall package together.) Haydn Fleury (Still a good defensive prospect, but not a prospect that stands out ahead of other defensemen.) Michael Dal Colle (Major dissapointment so a far on every level. Also doesn't have the raw strength and speed of a Virtanen to fall back on) That's pretty bad if Jake isn't even top 10 in his draft class right now and trending downwards. The good news however, is that it's not like he's a different player. He's still the same Jake Virtanen with the incredible speed, strength, size, and raw shot power that we drafted. The problem is he's struggling to adapt to the next level. This is a huge problem, as that is truly the biggest leap to the next level. But still, he has all the tools to be a successful NHL player, he's just going to take a little more extra time to get there. The kid scored 13 points in 55 games as a 19 year old in the NHL. That's actually not bad for a 19 year old powerforward coming into the league. Jake has just lost his place a little bit. He has to get his mind right, and start working overtime. He needs to work 24/7 this summer on 3 things. His shot: It's already powerful, and incredibly strong. He just needs to work on accuracy. Do the Kesler method. 100 shots a day minimum, no excuses. Even on vacation. It will get accurate. Once the shot is down, he can work with Travis Green next season, for at least the beginning part, on positioning and how to get open. Jake will never be a high profile passer, but he has the ability to be a high profile finisher. A guy you hand the puck to, to go to the net and finish the play. He has the speed to be able to get open, but right now focus on the shot. Conditioning: One of the things people didn't really consider when he was drafted was his conditioning. Yes he can be a human wrecking ball and play what I like to call as defensive end hockey, pushing the pace and smashing into anyone who doesn't get the puck off fast, but that takes a toll. That is exhausting. And the thing that Jake didn't realize is on the NHL level, everyone, even the 4th line grinders, have to be in tip top shape. Not only just for a single games purpose, but to get through a whole season with some consistency. Playing 3 or 4 games a week on an NHL level is not easy. It's exactly why a lot of rookies come into the league a little bit lighter than their preferred weight. get used to the league, the system, and the demand on your body night in and night out, then start gradually putting on the lean muscle you can handle. Hit the gym Jake. Hit the gym. His defensive game: Jake has been blessed with incredible speed, strength, as well as other skills. He has all the tools to be a two-way force in the league. What he needs to worry about is being able to be a reliable and punishing defender. That is what will get him a ticket to the NHL. Don't focus on being a high profile scorer yet, focus on being a guy that other players day, "damn..." when they have to lineup against you. Once he get's that down he will get bottom 6 minutes, and from there he can start to re-adapt his game to the NHL level. Ask Bo. The defensive game is the hardest part to get down. Once you can handle that, you can get reliable minutes on the NHL level. Once you start getting trusted to play reliable minutes, the offense starts to come. Again, Jake has all the tools to be a homerun pick and type of player, but he's going to take time. Nice. At this point, we have to acknowledge that Ehlers was the BPA at #6. The dynamic and speedy player that could help our team a lot right now by forming our first line with Baer-Bo and help ease the burden on the Sedins. As you said, although it doesn't look like Virtanen will have Ehlers' offensive output, I still do not doubt that he will turn out to be a useful player for us. He will be an NHLer at some point, the only question is what his role will be and that's up to him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 22 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: I think it is clear now that he did some serious partying in the summer time. The fact that they gave him a roster spot after coming to camp that out of shape sends a terrible message to everybody, To be honest, I'm not really concerned about his weight, just his production totals. It's common for athletes to look a little bit out of shape coming into training camp. Obviously not TOO out of shape. Linden even said during after hours on CBC I think where he recalled that the Sedins here and there would look out of shape and mentions that they're now gym rats. As the season goes on, they'll lose the pounds anyway. I'm more focused on Virtanen's totals and whether or not he's a contributing factor night in night out. Green, Benning, Linden are all saying that Virtanen's been noticeable lately and taking good steps albeit a very slow process. To be honest, I've already written this season off. As Ray said, if he still has these issues heading into next year/season and is just not taking the necessary steps to go further along in his development, then there's a huge problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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