Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[messier's_elbow]

3 hours ago, Odd. said:

I was also wondering the same thing. Pretty sure management had told media that Virtanen was being watched over during the off-season and that the trainers were going to monitor his weight. So how does he come to training camp out of shape, strange.

 

 

He wasn't fat or anything but I don't think he was in game shape.

[funkyfresh]

4 minutes ago, messier's_elbow said:

He wasn't fat or anything but I don't think he was in game shape.

Met him over the summer and the dude was definitely fat. 

[elvis15]

On 2/7/2017 at 11:55 PM, knucklehead91 said:

Can everyone stfu about Virtanen and what pick we should have taken what we "missed out on" etc. Nothing we can do to change the pick, the kid is young and learning he's playing infront of his home crowd, he's still a frickin kid and he's growing up, let him become a bloody man and become a real professional athlete. Let the cards lay where they fall and see where it goes. We passed on Nichuskin and took Horvat, look how that turned out. He has some growing up to do and it looks like he's starting to get his act together, he's dropped weight and is flying around the ice and seems to be all over the place. Keep this thread to updates, go argue elsewhere. If you are a bloody fan then be a fan and show your bloody support for the kid and stop criticizing him. This city along with Montreal and Toronto ruin players confidence and has a healthy hand in stinting development by being so overly critical. Bring positivity. 

We passed on Myers (and Karlsson!) and took Hodgson, look how that turned out. Virtanen is not looking like a high reward pick at this point, and the players taken right after him are very much looking like that. He was a highly debated pick at the time and continues to be until he proves more of himself.

 

It's a discussion thread, there's not much in the way of updates. He's had a bunch of games without points and not much to talk about in them - there was good discussion around a game not to long ago where he played a significant role when it occurred. If we kept it only to updates on his play, this thread would be about as busy as Cole Candella Talk.

 

We can be critical while still being a fan.

[alfstonker]

16 hours ago, Toews said:

I think the problem isn't the coaching but the fact that Jake isn't ready to play in the NHL. He wasn't last year either.

I'm not sure I agree.

I had reservations about both coming into the team last year and while McCann looked good in patches it was clear his size was against him for the type of game he played.

 

Jake to me DID look like an NHL player after the WJC - that was why imo he was brought in at the start of this season instead of straight to Utica. The thing that kept him back and was so obvious was not only that he was vastly out of condition but he appeared to shy from physical hits which suggested he might be carrying an injury.

 

I just think that now he is apparently fit and in good condition he might learn more in Vancouver and hopefully respond to the better players around him. 

As for McCann I have seen him 6/7 times now for Florida and he doesn't even look like the same player to me.

[alfstonker]

15 hours ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

Stonker,

 

Who is the Maestro Desjardins you speak of, I have never heard of him?  

 

So rushing prospects back to the NHL is the proper way to develop them?  

 

Especially when the coach you you love so much has stated that the NHL is not a development league.  So less practice time, less  one on one coaching and tougher competition is the cure?  

 

 

I know you think Willie is awesome and all, but this is a bit much. Jake needs to earn his way back.  Him just getting into game shape is not enough. Jake needs to go thru his development away from Vancouver, away from the media and the CDC. Let him get hungry for that pay check and the first class lifestyle he can have if he earns it. 

 

This guy needs time, Green is more than capable of developing players in Utica. 

 

EW

I'm only saying that as we all know, some players don't always thrive in the AHL but play well with better players. I actually think Jake is one of these type of players.

I also think WD got through to him and boosted his confidence after he came back from the WJC. Imo it was like watching a different player.

 

I am not sure we will see big numbers for Jake in the AHL and there is a risk that having got fit he may stagnate in that environment. 

Anyway it was only my opinion and we will all see in due course I suppose.

 

By the way I know what Willie said about "developing" but a lot of the developing he seems to employ is psychological, confidence boosting. That is what a fit Jake needs now imo and in an environment of good players.

[terrible.dee]

On 2/8/2017 at 9:35 AM, Hutton Wink said:

Would think if you'd paid attention the past couple weeks you'd be getting the message by now from a number of people here about your incessant and repetitive complaining about the same things over and over, but it evidently hasn't sunk in yet as you simply retreated into victim mentality.  Speaking of stale, is 800 polluted pages not enough HateTheJake therapy, or is there simply no ability or desire to add anything new or constructive?

 

 

WOAH!.....I step away for a few days and look what happens....The thought police roll out in force!

 

Let me explain something to you, in this crazy thing we call life you have fact and opinion.

 

Fact can be proven, say by a stat line, one place within an organization, or how one compares to ones peers. These cannot be argued, they simply are .

 

What conclusion one draws based on those facts is opinion. What can be inferred from a sagging stat line? A sub-basement level demotion? Or coming up woefully short when compared to others who have been given similar (Or less) opportunity?

 

In this realm anything goes, and in an appropriate setting (say...an internet discussion forum?) you will hear all manner of forecasts based on the facts. Why? because that's what it's there for.

 

This is where things get very odd. Imagine my surprise to end up on a discussion forum where a number of posters seem totally devoted to the SUPPRESSION of opinion, they are clearly not here to discuss, this is obvious by how quick they are to launch personal attacks on those whose opinions they are threatened by. But what is really interesting is that this bitter hubris is usually  does a dainty texas-two-step around any of the fact, opting instead for  "Straw-Man" tactics.....(hey, I'll save you the click: )

 

The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e. "stand up a straw man") and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the opponent's actual proposition.^[2][3]

This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged emotional issues where a fiery, entertaining "battle" and the defeat of an "enemy" may be more valued than critical thinking or understanding both sides of the issue.

Credit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

 

And attempted "Gaslighting" which I see clearly in the comment poster who said (I paraphrase) " I feel like I'm watching an entirely different player, Alf and I will need to go to the psych ward soon" and in case you don't know what Gaslighting is, allow me:

 

Gaslighting is a tactic in which a person or entity, in order to gain more power, makes a victim question their reality. 

People who gaslight typically use the following techniques:  

1. They tell blatant lies.

You know it's an outright lie. Yet they are telling you this lie with a straight face. Why are they so blatant? Because they're setting up a precedent. Once they tell you a huge lie, you're not sure if anything they say is true. Keeping you unsteady and off-kilter is the goal. 

10. They tell you or others that you are crazy.

This is one of the most effective tools of the gaslighter, because it's dismissive. The gaslighter knows if they question your sanity, people will not believe you when you tell them the gaslighter is abusive or out-of-control. It's a master technique.  

7. They know confusion weakens people. 

Gaslighters know that people like having a sense of stability and normalcy. Their goal is to uproot this and make you constantly question everything. And humans' natural tendency is to look to the person or entity that will help you feel more stable—and that happens to be the gaslighter.  

 

Credit: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/here-there-and-everywhere/201701/gaslighting-know-it-and-identify-it-protect-yourself

 

Luckily those of you trying to do this stuff are not intelligent enough to do it correctly. Put simply you are about as effective at mind-f$%king people as Virtannen is on the ice, that is to say.............THUS FAR YOU HAVE NOT DEMONSTRATED SUFFICIENT CONPETANCY AT THE TASK IN QUESTION, PERHAPS YOU WILL TURN THINGS AROUND BUT MOST MEASURABLE INDICATORS SHOW THAT YOU ARE TRENDING TOWARDS FAILIER

 

Those would be facts in case you are confused

 

The laughable level of denial and pitiful counter attacks (When in fact, there was no attack to counter, only an opinion to debate) lead me to a couple of probable conclusions, the most obvious is that the Canucks are now paying posters to push certain viewpoints, this is actually routine although during the last decade it's not something they would have had to do, now things being what they are, it would be normal for the club to hire people to push the company line on this forum, II would expect that, but I would hope they would hire more qualified applicants, but whatever, got to cut corners somewhere for the Erickson contract I guess.

 

The second is that Virtanen's Abbottsford buds are on here sticking up for him, that's fine except that it might mean he actually reads this thing, which would not be good at all, I'm sure players in any sport are told to stay far far away from their teams forum and that is good advice indeed, advice I'm sure %99.9 of players understand and take that advice because I would guess a player who doesn't understand why not to come here, probably doesn't have what it takes upstairs to be a player for long.

 

Whatever the case may be, give it up, you aren't any good at making facts any less than what they are, instead put a little time into coming up with an alternate interpretation of those facts, find some bright spots and exp[and on them, I would doubt there is a single person on here that wants Virtanen to fail, and those of us who see a grim forecast would love to be convinced otherwise.

 

But don't tell us how lovely the Emporer's new clothes are ....

 

Because at the moment he is butt-a$$ naked

 

 

[terrible.dee]

4 hours ago, messier's_elbow said:

He wasn't fat or anything but I don't think he was in game shape.

That whole part is still odd, Did they not monitor him as they said?

[Putgolzin]

2 hours ago, terrible.dee said:

WOAH!.....I step away for a few days and look what happens....The thought police roll out in force!

 

Let me explain something to you, in this crazy thing we call life you have fact and opinion.

 

Fact can be proven, say by a stat line, one place within an organization, or how one compares to ones peers. These cannot be argued, they simply are .

 

What conclusion one draws based on those facts is opinion. What can be inferred from a sagging stat line? A sub-basement level demotion? Or coming up woefully short when compared to others who have been given similar (Or less) opportunity?

 

In this realm anything goes, and in an appropriate setting (say...an internet discussion forum?) you will hear all manner of forecasts based on the facts. Why? because that's what it's there for.

 

This is where things get very odd. Imagine my surprise to end up on a discussion forum where a number of posters seem totally devoted to the SUPPRESSION of opinion, they are clearly not here to discuss, this is obvious by how quick they are to launch personal attacks on those whose opinions they are threatened by. But what is really interesting is that this bitter hubris is usually  does a dainty texas-two-step around any of the fact, opting instead for  "Straw-Man" tactics.....(hey, I'll save you the click: )

 

The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e. "stand up a straw man") and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the opponent's actual proposition.^[2][3]

This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged emotional issues where a fiery, entertaining "battle" and the defeat of an "enemy" may be more valued than critical thinking or understanding both sides of the issue.

Credit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

 

And attempted "Gaslighting" which I see clearly in the comment poster who said (I paraphrase) " I feel like I'm watching an entirely different player, Alf and I will need to go to the psych ward soon" and in case you don't know what Gaslighting is, allow me:

 

Gaslighting is a tactic in which a person or entity, in order to gain more power, makes a victim question their reality. 

People who gaslight typically use the following techniques:  

1. They tell blatant lies.

You know it's an outright lie. Yet they are telling you this lie with a straight face. Why are they so blatant? Because they're setting up a precedent. Once they tell you a huge lie, you're not sure if anything they say is true. Keeping you unsteady and off-kilter is the goal. 

10. They tell you or others that you are crazy.

This is one of the most effective tools of the gaslighter, because it's dismissive. The gaslighter knows if they question your sanity, people will not believe you when you tell them the gaslighter is abusive or out-of-control. It's a master technique.  

7. They know confusion weakens people. 

Gaslighters know that people like having a sense of stability and normalcy. Their goal is to uproot this and make you constantly question everything. And humans' natural tendency is to look to the person or entity that will help you feel more stable—and that happens to be the gaslighter.  

 

Credit: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/here-there-and-everywhere/201701/gaslighting-know-it-and-identify-it-protect-yourself

 

Luckily those of you trying to do this stuff are not intelligent enough to do it correctly. Put simply you are about as effective at mind-f$%king people as Virtannen is on the ice, that is to say.............THUS FAR YOU HAVE NOT DEMONSTRATED SUFFICIENT CONPETANCY AT THE TASK IN QUESTION, PERHAPS YOU WILL TURN THINGS AROUND BUT MOST MEASURABLE INDICATORS SHOW THAT YOU ARE TRENDING TOWARDS FAILIER

 

Those would be facts in case you are confused

 

The laughable level of denial and pitiful counter attacks (When in fact, there was no attack to counter, only an opinion to debate) lead me to a couple of probable conclusions, the most obvious is that the Canucks are now paying posters to push certain viewpoints, this is actually routine although during the last decade it's not something they would have had to do, now things being what they are, it would be normal for the club to hire people to push the company line on this forum, II would expect that, but I would hope they would hire more qualified applicants, but whatever, got to cut corners somewhere for the Erickson contract I guess.

 

The second is that Virtanen's Abbottsford buds are on here sticking up for him, that's fine except that it might mean he actually reads this thing, which would not be good at all, I'm sure players in any sport are told to stay far far away from their teams forum and that is good advice indeed, advice I'm sure %99.9 of players understand and take that advice because I would guess a player who doesn't understand why not to come here, probably doesn't have what it takes upstairs to be a player for long.

 

Whatever the case may be, give it up, you aren't any good at making facts any less than what they are, instead put a little time into coming up with an alternate interpretation of those facts, find some bright spots and exp[and on them, I would doubt there is a single person on here that wants Virtanen to fail, and those of us who see a grim forecast would love to be convinced otherwise.

 

But don't tell us how lovely the Emporer's new clothes are ....

 

Because at the moment he is butt-a$$ naked

 

 

 

Is there a Wikipedia entry for the dismissal of opinions based on the inability to simultaneously spell and cap-lock?

[timberz21]

On ‎2017‎-‎02‎-‎09 at 6:27 AM, alfstonker said:

Let's cut to the chase here.

 

There can be no doubt Willie Desjardins had Jake playing a hell of a lot better than the coaches in Utica. The boy has totally submarined since he went down there and whatever they are trying is just not working imo.

 

If I were management, and given that he is at least now back in condition, I would bring him back up to Vancouver and let Willie develop him. Hopefully he has learned his lesson and will now keep himself in shape. If not then it is back down to Utica or worse.

 

A lot of people dis Willie on here but there is no doubt he had Jake playing an NHL game after he came back from the WJC, to the extent that I had totally changed my mind about sending him down the following (this) season.

 

I will go further and say having watched McCann a good few times for Florida, it is my opinion Willie also had him playing better in Vancouver.

He lacked size at that time but many of us saw his potential under WD. I would say that despite his increase in size and weight he seems to have regressed in Florida.

 

18 hours ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

Stonker,

 

Who is the Maestro Desjardins you speak of, I have never heard of him?  

 

So rushing prospects back to the NHL is the proper way to develop them?  

 

Especially when the coach you you love so much has stated that the NHL is not a development league.  So less practice time, less  one on one coaching and tougher competition is the cure?  

 

 

I know you think Willie is awesome and all, but this is a bit much. Jake needs to earn his way back.  Him just getting into game shape is not enough. Jake needs to go thru his development away from Vancouver, away from the media and the CDC. Let him get hungry for that pay check and the first class lifestyle he can have if he earns it. 

 

This guy needs time, Green is more than capable of developing players in Utica. 

 

EW

Actually, he's not wrong.   

 

In the past few years Green has been praise as the next big thing around here, the next Mike Babcock.   But the matter of fact remains, that Green had multiple NHL interviews and was passed on by a lot of time.   When I look at the high profile prospect in the past few years, few that have been develop by Green made an any impact with the Canucks  (Schroeder, Jensen, Corrado, Sauvé, Grenier, Shinkaruk).   When you look at the ones that did made it, they didn't really go through Utica (Stetcher, Hutton, Horvat, Baertschi, Tryamkin and you could almost argue for Virtanen and McCann as well).  Green had a few success with guys like Gaunce, Labate, but anyone can develop bottom six players.

 

Green brought Utica to the final two years ago riding veteran players like Cal O'Reilly and benefitting from late season acquisition of Conacher and Baerstchi.  Other than that, I can't see what Green has really done for this organization.

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, timberz21 said:

 

Actually, he's not wrong.   

 

In the past few years Green has been praise as the next big thing around here, the next Mike Babcock.   But the matter of fact remains, that Green had multiple NHL interviews and was passed on by a lot of time.   When I look at the high profile prospect in the past few years, few that have been develop by Green made an any impact with the Canucks  (Schroeder, Jensen, Corrado, Sauvé, Grenier, Shinkaruk).   When you look at the ones that did made it, they didn't really go through Utica (Stetcher, Hutton, Horvat, Baertschi, Tryamkin and you could almost argue for Virtanen and McCann as well).  Green had a few success with guys like Gaunce, Labate, but anyone can develop bottom six players.

 

Green brought Utica to the final two years ago riding veteran players like Cal O'Reilly and benefitting from late season acquisition of Conacher and Baerstchi.  Other than that, I can't see what Green has really done for this organization.

Wow!  Excellent post.  when you spell things out like this, why do people want Green at all?  Maybe, we would be better off with Willie coaching our Utica team, developing players, and hire an experienced coach for the big club?

[BlackBeard]

2 hours ago, nzan said:

 

Is there a Wikipedia entry for the dismissal of opinions based on the inability to simultaneously spell and cap-lock?

can you figure it out yourself. bull*** questionS appear because you've got nothing to counter it so now you try to make the post irrelevant 

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, timberz21 said:

 

Actually, he's not wrong.   

 

In the past few years Green has been praise as the next big thing around here, the next Mike Babcock.   But the matter of fact remains, that Green had multiple NHL interviews and was passed on by a lot of time.   When I look at the high profile prospect in the past few years, few that have been develop by Green made an any impact with the Canucks  (Schroeder, Jensen, Corrado, Sauvé, Grenier, Shinkaruk).   When you look at the ones that did made it, they didn't really go through Utica (Stetcher, Hutton, Horvat, Baertschi, Tryamkin and you could almost argue for Virtanen and McCann as well).  Green had a few success with guys like Gaunce, Labate, but anyone can develop bottom six players.

 

Green brought Utica to the final two years ago riding veteran players like Cal O'Reilly and benefitting from late season acquisition of Conacher and Baerstchi.  Other than that, I can't see what Green has really done for this organization.

I think I found your problem...

[ForsbergTheGreat]

3 hours ago, timberz21 said:

 

Actually, he's not wrong.   

 

In the past few years Green has been praise as the next big thing around here, the next Mike Babcock.   But the matter of fact remains, that Green had multiple NHL interviews and was passed on by a lot of time.   When I look at the high profile prospect in the past few years, few that have been develop by Green made an any impact with the Canucks  (Schroeder, Jensen, Corrado, Sauvé, Grenier, Shinkaruk).   When you look at the ones that did made it, they didn't really go through Utica (Stetcher, Hutton, Horvat, Baertschi, Tryamkin and you could almost argue for Virtanen and McCann as well).  Green had a few success with guys like Gaunce, Labate, but anyone can develop bottom six players.

 

Green brought Utica to the final two years ago riding veteran players like Cal O'Reilly and benefitting from late season acquisition of Conacher and Baerstchi.  Other than that, I can't see what Green has really done for this organization.

Quite a few things wrong with this post,

 

I'll start with the obvious and AHL coach doesn't get to determine who players make an impact in the NHL.  He doesn't decide who gets called up and he doesn't decide how they get used at the NHL level, all he gets to do is help their game at the AHL level.  Shinkaruk got one game and less than 10 minutes of ice. Grenier averaged 11 minutes in his 6 games. Same with Jensen in his 5 games.  Hard to become impact players without any NHL opportunity. And Schreoder only played 2 games under green.

 

Baertschi and Markstrom came to Utica completely destroyed, and green built their game back to where it is.  There's plenty of good articles talking about how Green repair Svens game after calgary. 

 

And finally,  Jake is the closest thing Greens had in a high profile prospect everyone else has been late picks.  You can't really expect him to turn crap into gold. 

 

[Gaudette Celly]

On 2017-02-08 at 7:11 PM, canuckledraggin said:

What discussion? This thread has devolved into Jake sucks we shoulda drafted so and so they're doing so much better. No Jake is still young he needs to be given a chance to develop in his own time. But Jake sucks. No he doesn't. Yes he does. No he doesn't. That is elementary school bickering and it doesn't pass for discussion anymore than I know you are but what am I. 

Actually it's been that way since the moment he was drafted, which is why others have said it's annoying coming here to find real info on Jake but instead be deluged by all the incessant and repetitive whinging.

[Putgolzin]

59 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

Actually it's been that way since the moment he was drafted, which is why others have said it's annoying coming here to find real info on Jake but instead be deluged by all the incessant and repetitive FACTS!

ftfy

[timberz21]

1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Quite a few things wrong with this post,

 

I'll start with the obvious and AHL coach doesn't get to determine who players make an impact in the NHL.  He doesn't decide who gets called up and he doesn't decide how they get used at the NHL level, all he gets to do is help their game at the AHL level.  Shinkaruk got one game and less than 10 minutes of ice. Grenier averaged 11 minutes in his 6 games. Same with Jensen in his 5 games.  Hard to become impact players without any NHL opportunity. And Schreoder only played 2 games under green.

 

Baertschi and Markstrom came to Utica completely destroyed, and green built their game back to where it is.  There's plenty of good articles talking about how Green repair Svens game after calgary. 

 

And finally,  Jake is the closest thing Greens had in a high profile prospect everyone else has been late picks.  You can't really expect him to turn crap into gold. 

 

So what you learn in high school is useless once at the post-secondary level???    The AHL is suppose to be a development league...not every prospect make the NHL rightaway, they need to be develop down there and that is Green's job.

 

Late 1st rounder are not automatic superstar, but are pretty far from crap.    Late 1st rounder and 2nd rounder are not suppose to make the NHL at 19 and score 30 goals by 20.  They are suppose to develop in the AHL and then make the jump in the NHL.  Right now, prospect coming out of junior and NCAA are jumping in front of our AHL prospects. 

 

Wow, if Green made such a miracle in 30 games with Sven Baerstchi, why can't he use his magic on other prospect ?!?!?  And I doubt Green had anything to do with Markstrom's development, it's more Rollie and whoever the goalie coach, was that had anything to do with that..

 

High profile might have been a bad choice of word, but Green had plenty of raw talent to work with and so far, he hasn't really produce anything worth putting him on a pedestal.

Edited February 10, 2017 by timberz21

[alfstonker]

1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Quite a few things wrong with this post,

 

I'll start with the obvious and AHL coach doesn't get to determine who players make an impact in the NHL.  He doesn't decide who gets called up and he doesn't decide how they get used at the NHL level, all he gets to do is help their game at the AHL level.  Shinkaruk got one game and less than 10 minutes of ice. Grenier averaged 11 minutes in his 6 games. Same with Jensen in his 5 games.  Hard to become impact players without any NHL opportunity. And Schreoder only played 2 games under green.

Your theory is burst firstly by the fact Shink has never looked like anything for Calgary, Grenier had as much time as most prospects to stake his claim (no one expects an "impact" don't exaggerate to support your argument) and Jensen got countless chances (I actually think Green had little to do with Jensen not making it as I think he was a victim of concussion AND Chicago Wolves)

1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

Baertschi and Markstrom came to Utica completely destroyed, and green built their game back to where it is.  There's plenty of good articles talking about how Green repair Svens game after calgary. 

We have been over this, Green probably had little to do with Markstrom as there was a good goalie coach in Utica. Baertschi was playing soft in Calgary, Green sent him up soft and it was Desjardins who finally got through to him and changed his game. We had pages about this over a year ago when it was evident that Sven was heading for the OUT door playing the game he came up from Utica with. The NHL is a much tougher environment and you have fight for the right to show your skill AND learn to be competitive in defense.

1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

And finally,  Jake is the closest thing Greens had in a high profile prospect everyone else has been late picks.  You can't really expect him to turn crap into gold. 

 

Why not Willie is expected to do it and look at how he has Megna, Chaput, Skille, and undrafted/ low draft players performing IN THE NHL. There are not many AHL coaches get top 5 picks to work with. Go look at the team WD won the Calder Cup with and let us all know who the top 6 picks are.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 hour ago, timberz21 said:

So what you learn in high school is useless once at the post-secondary level???    The AHL is suppose to be a development league...not every prospect make the NHL rightaway, they need to be develop down there and that is Green's job.

 

What you learn in high school wont helped you in post-secondary level if you don't get the opportunity to attend the classes.  Green isn't in charge of NHL opportunity.  He doesn't decide shinkaruk only get 9 minutes in the one NHL game he played as a canuck.  Green has no control over that.  He can make a AHL players as ready as possible but unless the NHL coach gives that player the opportunity it really doesn't matter. 

 

Quote

Late 1st rounder are not automatic superstar, but are pretty far from crap.    Late 1st rounder and 2nd rounder are not suppose to make the NHL at 19 and score 30 goals by 20.  They are suppose to develop in the AHL and then make the jump in the NHL.  Right now, prospect coming out of junior and NCAA are jumping in front of our AHL prospects. 

Quote

High profile might have been a bad choice of word, but Green had plenty of raw talent to work with and so far, he hasn't really produce anything worth putting him on a pedestal.

 

How many late first rounds and second rounders has green been able to coach?.....

 

These are the 1st & 2nd rounder that he's been able to coach in Utica

Jensen - only played 70 games with utica under green before getting traded

Shinkaruk - played less than 2 season with utica and was producing at .87pp before being traded.

Gaunce - Has spend the majority of the season in the NHL

Baertschi - Currently in the NHL

Virtanen -  The only current 1st round draft pick in Utica and has played a total of 34 games. 

Demko - First year pro.

 

We have 2 players that are 1st & 2nd round picks in Utica (3 if you include Robak who is utica property)......That's it, 2 players and one is a goalie. 

 

Compare that the to Heat who have 7 of there own 1st & 2nd round picks playing on that roster, along with shinkaruk who makes 8 players. 

 

It's pretty easy to see that in terms of prospects he doesn't really have anything to work with.  The reason why NCAA players are jumping ahead of our prospects is easy to understand.  They are older Stecher 22, Hutton 23 and our NHL talent is low.  McCann and Virtanen shouldn't have been in the NHL.  they should have played junior and then go into the AHL. but the fact that our NHL team has been so weak it's opened up spots for players who should have been cooking in the AHL.  Green never got to work with Hutton, Stecher, Horvat, McCann, or Tryamkin either since they jumped right into the NHL.  As soon as we start getting some of our AHL prospect he will get to work with them,  Gaudette, lockwood, and potential Boeser along with some players graduating from juniour, Brisebois, Neill, and i'm hope Jasek.  Still with Boeser being the only player picks in the top 2 rounds.

 

Quote

Wow, if Green made such a miracle in 30 games with Sven Baerstchi, why can't he use his magic on other prospect ?!?!?  And I doubt Green had anything to do with Markstrom's development, it's more Rollie and whoever the goalie coach, was that had anything to do with that..

Baerstchi was a top 13 pick that put up 94 points in 47 games in his final year in the WHL.. His coach that year was, Travis Green.  Baertschi was easily the highest skilled player Green has seen in utica.  Green was able to get sven confidence back up to where it used to be.

 

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/iain+macintyre+sven+baertschi+survival/11375454/story.html

Quote

Green, who left the Winterhawks to coach the Canucks’ farm team in the American Hockey League, hardly recognized Baertschi when the winger arrived in Utica, N.Y., to finish the season.

“No, I wouldn’t have guessed this,” Green said after the opening day of the Canucks’ training camp here. “His enthusiasm wasn’t as high as it was (in junior). He was frustrated and had a bit of disappointment in himself, I think. His confidence was down.”

Green has helped repair it.

“Looking back, there was so much I had to learn,” Baertschi said. “And so much I still have to learn. (But) there’s a big support system around here. They want everybody to be successful. That’s the key for an organization.”

“I do get a sense he is re-energized,” Green said. “You go through adversity; a lot of players do it. If you can’t get through that adversity, you’re probably not going to be a very good NHLer. And if you do, you’re going to be better off for it. He knows that. He’s feeling good about himself. He knows his time is now.”

 

 

Edited February 10, 2017 by ForsbergTheGreat

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

What you learn in high school wont helped you in post-secondary level if you don't get the opportunity to attend the classes.  Green isn't in charge of NHL opportunity.  He doesn't decide shinkaruk only get 9 minutes in the one NHL game he played as a canuck.  Green has no control over that.  He can make a AHL players as ready as possible but unless the NHL coach gives that player the opportunity it really doesn't matter. 

 

 

How many late first rounds and second rounders has green been able to coach?.....

 

These are the 1st & 2nd rounder that he's been able to coach in Utica

Jensen - only played 70 games with utica under green before getting traded

Shinkaruk - played less than 2 season with utica and was producing at .87pp before being traded.

Gaunce - Has spend the majority of the season in the NHL

Baertschi - Currently in the NHL

Virtanen -  The only current 1st round draft pick in Utica and has played a total of 34 games. 

Demko - First year pro.

 

We have 2 players that are 1st & 2nd round picks in Utica (3 if you include Robak who is utica property)......That's it, 2 players and one is a goalie. 

 

Compare that the to Heat who have 7 of there own 1st & 2nd round picks playing on that roster, along with shinkaruk who makes 8 players. 

 

It's pretty easy to see that in terms of prospects he doesn't really have anything to work with.  The reason why NCAA players are jumping ahead of our prospects is easy to understand.  They are older Stecher 22, Hutton 23 and our NHL talent is low.  McCann and Virtanen shouldn't have been in the NHL.  they should have played junior and then go into the AHL. but the fact that our NHL team has been so weak it's opened up spots for players who should have been cooking in the AHL.  Green never got to work with Hutton, Stecher, Horvat, McCann, or Tryamkin either since they jumped right into the NHL.  As soon as we start getting some of our AHL prospect he will get to work with them,  Gaudette, lockwood, and potential Boeser along with some players graduating from juniour, Brisebois, Neill, and i'm hope Jasek.  Still with Boeser being the only player picks in the top 2 rounds.

 

Baerstchi was a top 13 pick that put up 94 points in 47 games in his final year in the AHL.. His coach that year was, Travis Green.  Baertschi was easily the highest skilled player Green has seen in utica.  Green was able to get sven confidence back up to where it used to be.

 

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/iain+macintyre+sven+baertschi+survival/11375454/story.html

 

 

Baer put up those numbers in the AHL?  That's 2 points/game!  

[ForsbergTheGreat]

21 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

Your theory is burst firstly by the fact Shink has never looked like anything for Calgary, Grenier had as much time as most prospects to stake his claim (no one expects an "impact" don't exaggerate to support your argument) and Jensen got countless chances (I actually think Green had little to do with Jensen not making it as I think he was a victim of concussion AND Chicago Wolves)

We have been over this, Green probably had little to do with Markstrom as there was a good goalie coach in Utica. Baertschi was playing soft in Calgary, Green sent him up soft and it was Desjardins who finally got through to him and changed his game. We had pages about this over a year ago when it was evident that Sven was heading for the OUT door playing the game he came up from Utica with. The NHL is a much tougher environment and you have fight for the right to show your skill AND learn to be competitive in defense.

And WD didn't we came to the conclusion that WD didn't have a clue how to handle pure talent.  So he benched baertschi until injuries forced him to play him. (WD patented "developing" move) When Sven finally got ice time he started producing.  We've been over this WD has admitted that it was the power play opportunity that got sven going. WD own words. WD was too stupid to figure that out. 

 

21 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

Why not Willie is expected to do it and look at how he has Megna, Chaput, Skille, and undrafted/ low draft players performing IN THE NHL. There are not many AHL coaches get top 5 picks to work with. Go look at the team WD won the Calder Cup with and let us all know who the top 6 picks are.

No one expects anything out of those players and that's where you constantly can't understand.  What people have a problem with is.... there usage and deployment.  It's like larsen, we all know he sucks, no one expects him to be a savior, so why play him when there's better options.  Doesn't bother me any. Willie is getting canned in 3 months anyway so he can do what ever he wants in the meantime.