Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[guntrix]

4 minutes ago, CoolCanucklehead said:

He was drafted in 1993 & true but he did have a decent rookie season (1996/96 season). But he did regress after the rookie season before he actually did break out in 1999-2000 season (6-7 years after his draft) & finally again in the 2001-2002 season (9 years after draft) where he became one of the best power forwards in the NHL.

 

 

 

                                                        GP      G     A      Pts

1995-96	New York Islanders	NHL	76	18	21	39	83	-14
1996-97	Utah Grizzlies	IHL	13	5	5	10	16	-3
1996-97	New York Islanders	NHL	64	10	13	23	68	-3
1997-98	New York Islanders	NHL	52	7	11	18	58	-19
1997-98	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	22	6	9	15	63	2
1998-99	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	32	8	8	16	44	-6
1999-00	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	80	25	25	50	126	-2
2000-01	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	79	25	30	55	93	-18
2001-02	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	72	36	49	85	110	21
2002-03	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	82	46	51	97	144	2

 

Yes, but the whole "it took Bertuzzi 6-7 years to put it together" premise sort of goes out the window when you take into account the fact that he scored almost 40 points in his first NHL season. I mean, the potential was always there. He demonstrated it in his rookie season. 

 

Yes, he did experience a sophomore slump, but many other rookies have as well... He missed a considerable amount of games the following three seasons as you can see in red (and actually put up pretty good PPG during his first two seasons with the Canucks). 

 

Again, the Bert comparison is not similar at all to Jake's situation, no matter how much we want it to be.

[Phat Fingers]

1 hour ago, GoBoGo53 said:

Fair enough. Nice having a reasonable discussion without getting flamed.
 

Look through my post history. I've said plenty positive about the Canucks. I'm as big a fan as you are. I like the future of this team. I just think Virtanen wasn't a good pick, and saying stuff like "Nylanders and Ehlers come around every draft" is the dumbest thing I've read on these forums.

Props,

 

i will look foreword to the day that a convo on a Jake thread mentions neither Ehlers or Nylander.  Dare to dream. 

 

That said, you are a decent poster to talk with and I have no issues with your posts. You might be getting blow back due to others. 

 

 

[Scruffy05]

Let's not forget, Virtanen was drafted really young, one of the youngest in his class. He's still just 20, he has plenty of time to blossom and get it all together.

[Ronaldoescobar]

A few more years in the AHL developing and hopefully he can find his game and be a solid bottom 6 physical player for the nucks one day.

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, Ronaldoescobar said:

A few more years in the AHL developing and hopefully he can find his game and be a solid bottom 6 physical player for the nucks one day.

Considering his big improvements this year, I expect Jake is in our top nine starting next season.  

[-AJ-]

5 minutes ago, Ronaldoescobar said:

A few more years in the AHL developing and hopefully he can find his game and be a solid bottom 6 physical player for the nucks one day.

I'd say he needs one more season at most in the AHL. He's coming along nicely. I'd guess he either gets an NHL shot at some point next year (either at the beginning or in the middle of the season) or gets a real big shot at the start of the 2018-19 season.

[BCNate]

1 hour ago, ajhockey said:

I'd say he needs one more season at most in the AHL. He's coming along nicely. I'd guess he either gets an NHL shot at some point next year (either at the beginning or in the middle of the season) or gets a real big shot at the start of the 2018-19 season.

Agreed.  He spent this year developing a strong 2 way game, next year will be focused on developing the offensive side of his game.  Virt, Boesser, Dahlen should bring a high level of skill to Utica next year.

[Erik Karlsson]

I think he makes the team. He looks like a different player than when he was playing in Van at the start of the season. His effort level and endurance has improved greatly. With all the young guys in the lineup I think it will motivate him even more and bring it every night.

[WeneedLumme]

43 minutes ago, Erik Karlsson said:

I think he makes the team. He looks like a different player than when he was playing in Van at the start of the season. His effort level and endurance has improved greatly. With all the young guys in the lineup I think it will motivate him even more and bring it every night.

I agree. And the Canucks still need that drive-right-through-the-player physicality that he brings better than anyone else in their system.

[ken kaniff]

On 06/04/2017 at 3:23 PM, guntrix said:

Yes, but the whole "it took Bertuzzi 6-7 years to put it together" premise sort of goes out the window when you take into account the fact that he scored almost 40 points in his first NHL season. I mean, the potential was always there. He demonstrated it in his rookie season. 

 

Yes, he did experience a sophomore slump, but many other rookies have as well... He missed a considerable amount of games the following three seasons as you can see in red (and actually put up pretty good PPG during his first two seasons with the Canucks). 

 

Again, the Bert comparison is not similar at all to Jake's situation, no matter how much we want it to be.

An Andrew Ladd comparison is much closer than a Bertuzzi. Took Ladd 4 years to become an NHL players after being drafted. I can see Virtanen doing the same. 

[bohoforpresident]

On 06/04/2017 at 1:48 PM, GoBoGo53 said:

Fair enough. Nice having a reasonable discussion without getting flamed.
 

Look through my post history. I've said plenty positive about the Canucks. I'm as big a fan as you are. I like the future of this team. I just think Virtanen wasn't a good pick, and saying stuff like "Nylanders and Ehlers come around every draft" is the dumbest thing I've read on these forums.

I'm trying to be reasonable about this because I don't like getting nasty and making enemies on these boards as we are mostly all fans and I can tell by your display name you do have good taste in players

 

 

Nylanders and Ehlers stats are padded. You can't deny that. If they played on the same lines Virtanen did in the NHL...Or in the AHL for that matter...they wouldn't have CLOSE to the same production. Its ignorant of you to think they would. 

 

Nylander and Ehlers play MORE minutes with FAR better players than Virtanen ever did.

 

That doesn't mean they aren't great players.

 

Also....

 

I do whole heartedly believe their are a handful of players each draft year you could throw on a wing with Auston Matthews who could put up similar points. As long as you can pass Auston Matthew the puck... You're going to get apples. 

 

If you think that's the dumbest thing you've ever heard on these forums you are entitled to that opinion but 60 point seasons playing on a first line and with generational talent....Come on now son. 

 

Again.. not to say they aren't great players... 

 

Realistically Matthews scored 40 goals this season..How many apples to Nylanders on those goals alone? Its not like he went through the legs on the Blueline and then cross ice on every pass... He has ability no doubt but Matthews is the real hero there. Hell...Zach hyman (5th round pick from 2010 with not even 100 career games) is knocking on 30 points on that line..

 

Just saying it sounds like you think they are generational players.. they are high offense high IQ players... Available at the top of every draft. 

 

The only thing I could ask for is that we give Virtanen proper development in the ahl...And then give him every chance to succeed at the NHL level before we start dismissing him. And we all know Utica has the same problem as the Canucks. Utica only has Virtanen hopeful for the top 6. Other than that...any forward prospects they have down there won't make it to the NHL or are projected as bottom 6 forwards..

 

So don't forget to take those things into account when you are pointing out how great nylander and Ehlers are and how much you don't like Virtanen.

[higgyfan]

3 hours ago, ken kaniff said:

An Andrew Ladd comparison is much closer than a Bertuzzi. Took Ladd 4 years to become an NHL players after being drafted. I can see Virtanen doing the same. 

Interesting comparison, KK. 

 

Let's hope that Van doesn't give up on Virt as quickly as Car gave up on Ladd.

[Winter Soldier]

3 hours ago, ken kaniff said:

An Andrew Ladd comparison is much closer than a Bertuzzi. Took Ladd 4 years to become an NHL players after being drafted. I can see Virtanen doing the same. 

I doubt anyone would be sad if Virt turned out to be a Ladd. I love that guy.

 

[DeNiro]

Just now, Winter Soldier said:

I doubt anyone would be sad if Virt turned out to be a Ladd. I love that guy.

 

I think most of us will be thankful if he becomes a regular top 9 NHler at this point.

 

A very disappointing first season in the AHL. It seems like he's got a long ways to go before he becomes consistent enough to make the big show.

 

But who knows, alot of us thought Jensen and Shinkaruk looked like future NHLers and look how that turned out. We'll know alot more in the next couple years.

 

 

[Phat Fingers]

1 hour ago, bohoforpresident said:

I'm trying to be reasonable about this because I don't like getting nasty and making enemies on these boards as we are mostly all fans and I can tell by your display name you do have good taste in players

 

 

Nylanders and Ehlers stats are padded. You can't deny that. If they played on the same lines Virtanen did in the NHL...Or in the AHL for that matter...they wouldn't have CLOSE to the same production. Its ignorant of you to think they would. 

 

Nylander and Ehlers play MORE minutes with FAR better players than Virtanen ever did.

 

That doesn't mean they aren't great players.

 

Also....

 

I do whole heartedly believe their are a handful of players each draft year you could throw on a wing with Auston Matthews who could put up similar points. As long as you can pass Auston Matthew the puck... You're going to get apples. 

 

If you think that's the dumbest thing you've ever heard on these forums you are entitled to that opinion but 60 point seasons playing on a first line and with generational talent....Come on now son. 

 

Again.. not to say they aren't great players... 

 

Realistically Matthews scored 40 goals this season..How many apples to Nylanders on those goals alone? Its not like he went through the legs on the Blueline and then cross ice on every pass... He has ability no doubt but Matthews is the real hero there. Hell...Zach hyman (5th round pick from 2010 with not even 100 career games) is knocking on 30 points on that line..

 

Just saying it sounds like you think they are generational players.. they are high offense high IQ players... Available at the top of every draft. 

 

The only thing I could ask for is that we give Virtanen proper development in the ahl...And then give him every chance to succeed at the NHL level before we start dismissing him. And we all know Utica has the same problem as the Canucks. Utica only has Virtanen hopeful for the top 6. Other than that...any forward prospects they have down there won't make it to the NHL or are projected as bottom 6 forwards..

 

So don't forget to take those things into account when you are pointing out how great nylander and Ehlers are and how much you don't like Virtanen.

Logic, so rare and welcome on the CDC. Great post, but because it is logical and reasonable be prepared for trolling. 

 

EW

[Salmonberries]

5 hours ago, bohoforpresident said:

I'm trying to be reasonable about this because I don't like getting nasty and making enemies on these boards as we are mostly all fans and I can tell by your display name you do have good taste in players

 

 

Nylanders and Ehlers stats are padded. You can't deny that. If they played on the same lines Virtanen did in the NHL...Or in the AHL for that matter...they wouldn't have CLOSE to the same production. Its ignorant of you to think they would. 

 

Nylander and Ehlers play MORE minutes with FAR better players than Virtanen ever did.

 

That doesn't mean they aren't great players.

 

Also....

 

I do whole heartedly believe their are a handful of players each draft year you could throw on a wing with Auston Matthews who could put up similar points. As long as you can pass Auston Matthew the puck... You're going to get apples. 

 

If you think that's the dumbest thing you've ever heard on these forums you are entitled to that opinion but 60 point seasons playing on a first line and with generational talent....Come on now son. 

 

Again.. not to say they aren't great players... 

 

Realistically Matthews scored 40 goals this season..How many apples to Nylanders on those goals alone? Its not like he went through the legs on the Blueline and then cross ice on every pass... He has ability no doubt but Matthews is the real hero there. Hell...Zach hyman (5th round pick from 2010 with not even 100 career games) is knocking on 30 points on that line..

 

Just saying it sounds like you think they are generational players.. they are high offense high IQ players... Available at the top of every draft. 

 

The only thing I could ask for is that we give Virtanen proper development in the ahl...And then give him every chance to succeed at the NHL level before we start dismissing him. And we all know Utica has the same problem as the Canucks. Utica only has Virtanen hopeful for the top 6. Other than that...any forward prospects they have down there won't make it to the NHL or are projected as bottom 6 forwards..

 

So don't forget to take those things into account when you are pointing out how great nylander and Ehlers are and how much you don't like Virtanen.

 

 

3 hours ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

Logic, so rare and welcome on the CDC. Great post, but because it is logical and reasonable be prepared for trolling. 

 

EW

Not to troll at all but I don't think Nylander spent very much time playing on Austen Matthews' line this line year. that was Mitch Marner's spot.

 

Ehlers did play on the Schiefle line in Winnipeg though

Edited April 10, 2017 by Salmonberries

[guntrix]

5 hours ago, bohoforpresident said:

I'm trying to be reasonable about this because I don't like getting nasty and making enemies on these boards as we are mostly all fans and I can tell by your display name you do have good taste in players

 

 

Nylanders and Ehlers stats are padded. You can't deny that. If they played on the same lines Virtanen did in the NHL...Or in the AHL for that matter...they wouldn't have CLOSE to the same production. Its ignorant of you to think they would. 

 

Nylander and Ehlers play MORE minutes with FAR better players than Virtanen ever did.

 

That doesn't mean they aren't great players.

 

Also....

 

I do whole heartedly believe their are a handful of players each draft year you could throw on a wing with Auston Matthews who could put up similar points. As long as you can pass Auston Matthew the puck... You're going to get apples. 

 

If you think that's the dumbest thing you've ever heard on these forums you are entitled to that opinion but 60 point seasons playing on a first line and with generational talent....Come on now son. 

 

Again.. not to say they aren't great players... 

 

Realistically Matthews scored 40 goals this season..How many apples to Nylanders on those goals alone? Its not like he went through the legs on the Blueline and then cross ice on every pass... He has ability no doubt but Matthews is the real hero there. Hell...Zach hyman (5th round pick from 2010 with not even 100 career games) is knocking on 30 points on that line..

 

Just saying it sounds like you think they are generational players.. they are high offense high IQ players... Available at the top of every draft. 

 

The only thing I could ask for is that we give Virtanen proper development in the ahl...And then give him every chance to succeed at the NHL level before we start dismissing him. And we all know Utica has the same problem as the Canucks. Utica only has Virtanen hopeful for the top 6. Other than that...any forward prospects they have down there won't make it to the NHL or are projected as bottom 6 forwards..

 

So don't forget to take those things into account when you are pointing out how great nylander and Ehlers are and how much you don't like Virtanen.

You have some good points but you tip-toe around the fact that both Ehlers and Nylander are simply better players despite playing with better line mates. Sure, their stats may be padded but Virtanen hasn't performed well enough to indicate he'd be able to replicate even half those numbers were he put on Auston's line. 

 

Sure, Jake hasn't had a seamless development path but the onus of proof is on him to show that he's worthy of being a top 6 pick. Every single NHL fan and their mom would point at Ehlers and Nylander as being more valuable and better hockey players. You'd be hard stretched to prove otherwise, even if Jake became the middle six bruiser we now want him to be. 

 

Inb4 this is called trolling for not being enthusiastically supportive. 

 

Inb4 this post gets called out for bringing up Ehlers and Nylander despite it being a response to an Ehlers/Nylander post. 

[The Lock]

5 minutes ago, guntrix said:

You have some good points but you tip-toe around the fact that both Ehlers and Nylander are simply better players despite playing with better line mates. Sure, their stats may be padded but Virtanen hasn't performed well enough to indicate he'd be able to replicate even half those numbers were he put on Auston's line. 

 

Sure, Jake hasn't had a seamless development path but the onus of proof is on him to show that he's worthy of being a top 6 pick. Every single NHL fan and their mom would point at Ehlers and Nylander as being more valuable and better hockey players. You'd be hard stretched to prove otherwise, even if Jake became the middle six bruiser we now want him to be. 

 

Inb4 this is called trolling for not being enthusiastically supportive. 

 

Inb4 this post gets called out for bringing up Ehlers and Nylander despite it being a response to an Ehlers/Nylander post. 

The thing is, you're talking in the here and now, which is fine, but it also tip-toes around the fact that he is making strides. At the end of the day, we don't know what Virtanen will become. You can think he won't become a Nylander or you can think he will become a Nylander (in terms of value I mean). Either case is a possibility and can't truly be denied as we're talking about the future where many things are possible.

 

In the here and now you would be right that Ehlers and Nylander are more valuable as they've done more than Virtanen, but we simply don't know what the future brings and there's nothing wrong with hoping Virtanen pans out in the end.

Edited April 10, 2017 by The Lock

[Ichiban604]

50 minutes ago, The Lock said:

The thing is, you're talking in the here and now, which is fine, but it also tip-toes around the fact that he is making strides. At the end of the day, we don't know what Virtanen will become. You can think he won't become a Nylander or you can think he will become a Nylander (in terms of value I mean). Either case is a possibility and can't truly be denied as we're talking about the future where many things are possible.

 

In the here and now you would be right that Ehlers and Nylander are more valuable as they've done more than Virtanen, but we simply don't know what the future brings and there's nothing wrong with hoping Virtanen pans out in the end.

There is nothing wrong hoping..................

 

[hammertime]

26 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

I'm glad you think you get to decide what is logical and what isn't. 

 

 

Their stats are padded?  Okay.  Ovechkin's stats are padded because he plays with Backstrom..  If you are an elite player, guess what?  You get to play with other elite players.  Nylander came over to North America as an 18 year old and put up close to PPG numbers in the AHL.  Jake, almost 21 years old can't even score 10 measly goals in 60+ games. And FYI Nylander holds his own on a line without Matthews most of the time.

 

The Utica comets are desperately trying to make the playoffs and Jake hasn't contributed anything to help snag that final playoff spot.  Yeah he really is "getting it", so much so that he has been taken off the powerplay.  I watched the Comets game on Friday and he got maybe 10-12 minutes of ice time at best

 

 

It's an absolute disaster here in Vancouver, and people are trying to downplay the talents of other young players just to make us feel better about our crappy draft pick.  

Nylander and Virtanen are very different players comparing the 2 I don't believe is productive. I concede Virtanen hasn't been an offensive force in the AHL yet. That's not really what he's being asked to learn in the AHL. The things he needs to work on are easier to fix than foot speed or shooting ability. If he can put it all together the upside is way higher than Nylander that said Virtanen could amount to the next Jack Skille. It appears Virtanen is taking his medicine we will find out if it worked in October. 

Edited April 10, 2017 by hammertime