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Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW


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31 minutes ago, Two one one said:

I think we should all stop 'whining' over people who 'whine.'

 

It was a bad pick and we're allowed to discuss it as such.

I am only trying to save you the time, energy and frustration of something so pointless.

 

Like why bother? It was a bad pick, it's been almost 3 years since, move on. No need to be complaining, that time has long gone.

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27 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I am only trying to save you the time, energy and frustration of something so pointless.

 

Like why bother? It was a bad pick, it's been almost 3 years since, move on. No need to be complaining, that time has long gone.

A very sensible conclusion. People can and will talk about the "what ifs" but it is what is. They have jake, not one of the others. Let's just hope he can be moulded into an nhler, and be satisfied with that. 

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3 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I am only trying to save you the time, energy and frustration of something so pointless.

 

Like why bother? It was a bad pick, it's been almost 3 years since, move on. No need to be complaining, that time has long gone.

Agreed 100% .

 

I myself don't understand peoples need to have others drop down to their level of negativity, sure one of the " Other " guys would be nice right now, but reality is Virtanen is the guy the Canucks selected. Every single draft teams miss out on a guy they should have picked instead of the player they did, guys like Forsberg and Larkin for example.

 

That said if the draft was a sure thing, with no subjectivity or risk, the leauge would just hand out the next guy on the list and there would be no need for teams to pre-scout, do interviews, dig into family history, talk to coaches and teammates, watch hours of game footage, travel around the world to see them in person, ETC, ETC, ETC.

 

That's what makes the draft so fun, you don't truly know who picked a winner or a looser until at least 4 or so years after the draft. Right now It's a tad early to say with absolute certainty, but it looks like halg the league messed up not selecting Boeser, sure makes things like drafting Virtanen sting less.

 

Also, for all we know drafting Nylander or Ehler's would have made management push harder last year and this for playoffs instead of just letting things fall where they have and we would have picked outside of the top 5 this year and last, as well as traded away some picks and prospects for players in the kin of Derek, Roy :sick: . . .

 

Maybe Virtanen figures it out in one of the next 2 year and maybe he busts out of even the AHL. We will just have to wait and see, so at this point I chose to be positive and hope he can become that 20 goal, hard hitting, pain in the ass fore-checker that every team would love to have ( or possibly has ) .

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5 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I am only trying to save you the time, energy and frustration of something so pointless.

 

Like why bother? It was a bad pick, it's been almost 3 years since, move on. No need to be complaining, that time has long gone.

There's no fun in being positive at all hours.

 

e: nor do I suppose there's a modicum of intelligence in that way of thinking.

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You can really tell who Henrik was talking about when he said along the lines of "You can tell who wants to get better and who's just happy to make it in the NHL.  The summer is the most important time for a hockey player to get better.  It's all about coming into training camp in the best possible shape to show your teammates your commitment to getting better."  Not a word for word quote but pretty obvious who he's referring to. 

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5 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I am only trying to save you the time, energy and frustration of something so pointless.

 

Like why bother? It was a bad pick, it's been almost 3 years since, move on. No need to be complaining, that time has long gone.

We still can't say with that certainty that it was a 'bad' pick though. If Virtanen becomes that complimentary elite puck hound you mentioned like a Hansen with more size and scoring, that's not a 'bad' pick.

 

Could we have made a 'better' pick? Absolutely. But that happens in literally every draft to every team eventually. It's the draft, it's educated guess work, not guarantees. I mean CAL, NYI, CAR could have all made better picks too. Aand ahead of us.

 

He seems to be starting to mature and 'get it' in Utica. His biggest issues were maturity, work and consistency. If he can correct those (as he appears to be doing), we'll have a good player. If he can't, then in a couple years, you can call it a 'bad' pick.

 

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7 minutes ago, J.R. said:

We still can't say with that certainty that it was a 'bad' pick though. If Virtanen becomes that complimentary elite puck hound you mentioned like a Hansen with more size and scoring, that's not a 'bad' pick.

 

Could we have made a 'better' pick? Absolutely. But that happens in literally every draft to every team eventually. It's the draft, it's educated guess work, not guarantees. I mean CAL, NYI, CAR could have all made better picks too. Aand ahead of us.

 

He seems to be starting to mature and 'get it' in Utica. His biggest issues were maturity, work and consistency. If he can correct those (as he appears to be doing), we'll have a good player. If he can't, then in a couple years, you can call it a 'bad' pick.

 

I think his shoulder injury set him back a little bit as well. I mean i am no Dr.Recchi or anything so I can't say for certain.

 

Seeing as like you mentioned he is working on his work ethic and consistency, as well as his fitness level I think his shot and his hands should start to come back, honestly his next hurdle is probably re-gaining his confidence from his Junior days without the cockiness that has led him to the situation he is currently in.

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Just now, R35Godz1lla said:

I think his shoulder injury set him back a little bit as well. I mean i am no Dr.Recchi or anything so I can't say for certain.

 

Seeing as like you mentioned he is working on his work ethic and consistency, as well as his fitness level I think his shot and his hands should start to come back, honestly his next hurdle is probably re-gaining his confidence from his Junior days without the cockiness that has led him to the situation he is currently in.

Yup, he needed a good couple humble pies, injury set him back, he probably could have been handled better his 1st pro year in Van, had maturity and work ethic issues etc.

 

There's certainly been issues. I hope nobody reads this as me implying everything's rosy (as anything remote positive/not negative tends to get interpreted as re: Jake). He's far from out of the woods and he could still easily be a 'bad' pick with damning certainty if he stagnates or regresses.

 

But he has seemed to have turned a corner and if he can continue on that path and continue improving, a fast, hard hitting puck hound who can put up complimentary 40+/- points is a GREAT player to have. Here's hoping he gets there.

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2 hours ago, R35Godz1lla said:

Agreed 100% .

 

I myself don't understand peoples need to have others drop down to their level of negativity, sure one of the " Other " guys would be nice right now, but reality is Virtanen is the guy the Canucks selected. Every single draft teams miss out on a guy they should have picked instead of the player they did, guys like Forsberg and Larkin for example.

 

That said if the draft was a sure thing, with no subjectivity or risk, the leauge would just hand out the next guy on the list and there would be no need for teams to pre-scout, do interviews, dig into family history, talk to coaches and teammates, watch hours of game footage, travel around the world to see them in person, ETC, ETC, ETC.

 

That's what makes the draft so fun, you don't truly know who picked a winner or a looser until at least 4 or so years after the draft. Right now It's a tad early to say with absolute certainty, but it looks like halg the league messed up not selecting Boeser, sure makes things like drafting Virtanen sting less.

 

Also, for all we know drafting Nylander or Ehler's would have made management push harder last year and this for playoffs instead of just letting things fall where they have and we would have picked outside of the top 5 this year and last, as well as traded away some picks and prospects for players in the kin of Derek, Roy :sick: . . .

 

Maybe Virtanen figures it out in one of the next 2 year and maybe he busts out of even the AHL. We will just have to wait and see, so at this point I chose to be positive and hope he can become that 20 goal, hard hitting, pain in the ass fore-checker that every team would love to have ( or possibly has ) .

Larkin who?

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10 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Yup, he needed a good couple humble pies, injury set him back, he probably could have been handled better his 1st pro year in Van, had maturity and work ethic issues etc.

 

There's certainly been issues. I hope nobody reads this as me implying everything's rosy (as anything remote positive/not negative tends to get interpreted as re: Jake). He's far from out of the woods and he could still easily be a 'bad' pick with damning certainty if he stagnates or regresses.

 

But he has seemed to have turned a corner and if he can continue on that path and continue improving, a fast, hard hitting puck hound who can put up complimentary 40+/- points is a GREAT player to have. Here's hoping he gets there.

 

Another name I heard allot in connection to who Vancouver may be looking at in 2014 was Nick Ritchie.

 

I feel as though he is where Virtanen should be at, had he been able to go strait to the AHL instead of right to the Canucks in his Draft+1 year. In fact I feel as though Virtanen is the more skilled of the 2 ( Ceiling wise ) and the fact that he is possibly the more skilled player has resulted in his progression being a longer go ( given all the hurdles he has crashed into thus far ). Now I have not seen allot of Ritchie as I don't follow the ducks very much, but to me he seems to understand his role allot better at this stage of his development and is playing to his current strengths, where as Virtanen tried to be more than what he was ( given injuries, deployment, fitness level, ETC. ) and it hindered his progression.

 

Never hurts to play on a team with Getzlaf, Perry, Kesler, Etc. either, when compared with who Virtanen has played with.

 

3 minutes ago, Camel Toe Drag said:

Larkin who?

 

Please be sarcasm :ph34r: . I mean, sure he regressed a bit this year, but other than Zetterburg, all of Detroit took a step backwards.

 

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10 minutes ago, R35Godz1lla said:

 

Another name I heard allot in connection to who Vancouver may be looking at in 2014 was Nick Ritchie.

 

I feel as though he is where Virtanen should be at, had he been able to go strait to the AHL instead of right to the Canucks in his Draft+1 year. In fact I feel as though Virtanen is the more skilled of the 2 ( Ceiling wise ) and the fact that he is possibly the more skilled player has resulted in his progression being a longer go ( given all the hurdles he has crashed into thus far ). Now I have not seen allot of Ritchie as I don't follow the ducks very much, but to me he seems to understand his role allot better at this stage of his development and is playing to his current strengths, where as Virtanen tried to be more than what he was ( given injuries, deployment, fitness level, ETC. ) and it hindered his progression.

 

Never hurts to play on a team with Getzlaf, Perry, Kesler, Etc. either, when compared with who Virtanen has played with.

 

 

Please be sarcasm :ph34r: . I mean, sure he regressed a bit this year, but other than Zetterburg, all of Detroit took a step backwards.

 

Yes sarcasm. Yeah a very disappointing season to say the least. He's young, hopefully he can get back the level of play as a rookie. Nathan Mackinnon syndrome. 

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4 minutes ago, Camel Toe Drag said:

Yes sarcasm. Yeah a very disappointing season to say the least. He's young, hopefully he can get back the level of play as a rookie. Nathan Mackinnon syndrome. 

Maybe Detroit would take Virtanen, Ballard, oops I mean Sbisa and a Benning special 2nd round pick for Larkin ;) .

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If Virtanen's very low level of production continues throughout the next season (presumably in the AHL), by the end of that season I believe it will be accurate to label him a bust. Over the summer, I hope he figures out how to diversify his game so that his strengths begin to translate to the pro game. And that he arrives at camp extremely fit and determined.  Come on, Jake. Show all the people on non-Canuck forums who have already labelled you a bust that they jumped the gun.

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32 minutes ago, droid56 said:

If Virtanen's very low level of production continues throughout the next season (presumably in the AHL), by the end of that season I believe it will be accurate to label him a bust. Over the summer, I hope he figures out how to diversify his game so that his strengths begin to translate to the pro game. And that he arrives at camp extremely fit and determined.  Come on, Jake. Show all the people on non-Canuck forums who have already labelled you a bust that they jumped the gun.

I think his team mates will make just as much difference next year as his commitment this summer. He's a complimentary player not a creator.

 

He needs D who can move the puck to him and/or his line mates and guys who can create chances/passes in the Ozone he can bang in or create room for them to create with.

 

Of course all of that won't matter if he doesn't also take this summer seriously.

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12 hours ago, R35Godz1lla said:

Agreed 100% .

 

I myself don't understand peoples need to have others drop down to their level of negativity, sure one of the " Other " guys would be nice right now, but reality is Virtanen is the guy the Canucks selected. Every single draft teams miss out on a guy they should have picked instead of the player they did, guys like Forsberg and Larkin for example.

 

That's what makes the draft so fun, you don't truly know who picked a winner or a looser until at least 4 or so years after the draft. Right now It's a tad early to say with absolute certainty, but it looks like halg the league messed up not selecting Boeser, sure makes things like drafting Virtanen sting less. 

Not the first time I've seen these kinds of justifications that need context...

 

Sure, teams missing out on better players at the draft happens all the time but it stings a whole lot more when we take Jake over a guy with two 100+ point seasons in the Q and the guy with almost a point per game in the Swedish League at 17/18. There are draft whiffs and then there are gaffs like this one.

 

Secondly, us potentially striking gold in Boeser doesn't nullify the Jake pick. I don't understand how one comes to such a conclusion. 

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35 minutes ago, guntrix said:

Not the first time I've seen these kinds of justifications that need context...

 

Sure, teams missing out on better players at the draft happens all the time but it stings a whole lot more when we take Jake over a guy with two 100+ point seasons in the Q and the guy with almost a point per game in the Swedish League at 17/18. There are draft whiffs and then there are gaffs like this one.

 

Secondly, us potentially striking gold in Boeser doesn't nullify the Jake pick. I don't understand how one comes to such a conclusion. 

Because you miss some.  You win some.

 

Pissing and moaning endlessly about it is really sad when weighed against the rest of it all.

 

So we MAY have blown a pick.  So what.  We didn't Yakupov it.  We have no idea what Jake will be yet.  He won't bd a Nylander or an Eh let's.

 

But so what.

 

What we do know is that reiterating the endless argument of "Oh but we should have, scouts said, look how good they are" only shows that some people are incapable of moving on

 

Nobody said it "was nullified" what was said is switch drafts/positions on each player and it doesn't look so bad 

 

Teams miss on the draft all the time.  It's only sad lonely fans pining over what could have been that make it so sad.  Like driving by your exes work all the time.

 

Just sad.

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14 hours ago, R35Godz1lla said:

Agreed 100% .

 

I myself don't understand peoples need to have others drop down to their level of negativity, sure one of the " Other " guys would be nice right now, but reality is Virtanen is the guy the Canucks selected. Every single draft teams miss out on a guy they should have picked instead of the player they did, guys like Forsberg and Larkin for example.

 

That said if the draft was a sure thing, with no subjectivity or risk, the leauge would just hand out the next guy on the list and there would be no need for teams to pre-scout, do interviews, dig into family history, talk to coaches and teammates, watch hours of game footage, travel around the world to see them in person, ETC, ETC, ETC.

 

That's what makes the draft so fun, you don't truly know who picked a winner or a looser until at least 4 or so years after the draft. Right now It's a tad early to say with absolute certainty, but it looks like halg the league messed up not selecting Boeser, sure makes things like drafting Virtanen sting less.

 

Also, for all we know drafting Nylander or Ehler's would have made management push harder last year and this for playoffs instead of just letting things fall where they have and we would have picked outside of the top 5 this year and last, as well as traded away some picks and prospects for players in the kin of Derek, Roy :sick: . . .

 

Maybe Virtanen figures it out in one of the next 2 year and maybe he busts out of even the AHL. We will just have to wait and see, so at this point I chose to be positive and hope he can become that 20 goal, hard hitting, pain in the ass fore-checker that every team would love to have ( or possibly has ) .

I feel like Boeser and Virtanen cancel each other out development wise. Benning struck good with Boeser and is still waiting on Jake who has been surpassed by several draft peers. Virtanen can still develop into a 2nd liner though, he's only 20. He is so much like Kreider... 

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2 minutes ago, messier's_elbow said:

I feel like Boeser and Virtanen cancel each other out development wise. Benning struck good with Boeser and is still waiting on Jake who has been surpassed by several draft peers. Virtanen can still develop into a 2nd liner though, he's only 20. He is so much like Kreider... 

Yup. I choose to see the potential that Virtanen has. I think he has a good off-season, and comes into training camp attempting to earn a spot in the line up. Whether he makes it to the roster is another story, but personally, I'd rather have him spend another year down in Utica for further development. At 21, he's still very young, and maybe he won't be an elite player, but hey, if he turns into a good second liner, i'm happy about that. 

he's made remarkable progress from since being sent down to recently. his maturity is starting to show as he's spent the season in the AHL. i'm excited for him for next season. and very curious to see what he brings to the table in the training camp. 

 

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  • -Vintage Canuck- changed the title to Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW
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