Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[Warhippy]

9 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

Similar styles between the 2 maybe but WN had 61 pts last year in his first full season. RNH hasn't ever had that many in a season. RNH should be aspiring to become as good as nylander one day. He is part of the reason why Edmonton sucked for all those years. Nylander is part of the reason Toronto went from last to playoff team last year. 

 

Like I said similar style of play not so similar offensive output.

In his rookie season RNH had 52 points in 62 games, good for about 60 points on the season.

 

I'd say comparably, it's a pretty solid side by side.

[Putgolzin]

5 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

Similar styles between the 2 maybe but WN had 61 pts last year in his first full season. RNH hasn't ever had that many in a season. RNH should be aspiring to become as good as nylander one day. He is part of the reason why Edmonton sucked for all those years. Nylander is part of the reason Toronto went from last to playoff team last year. 

 

Like I said similar style of play not so similar offensive output.

agreed, among my leaf friends who watch him every game, they speak about how good a two way player he is in addition to his offense.

 

i'm a huge virtanen supporter, but the nylander dogging is simply misplaced. the kid that just won the tournament mvp yesterday after leading his team to gold...that kid is a real hockey player.

[CanadianRugby]

50 minutes ago, messier's_elbow said:

Your right cause I wanted to take Nylander, but JB also took Boeser the next year for a steal at 23, so it all evens out in the end. 

Not really, unless you think Boeser > Nylander

[messier's_elbow]

5 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

Not really, unless you think Boeser > Nylander

Not quite, but getting Boeser at 23 was a great pick to counteract the Virtanen pick. That's my point. 

[CanadianRugby]

46 minutes ago, 2011 said:

Not true.   A lot of fans supported this pick. 

A ton of fans were upset about it, and specifically wanted Nylader or Ehlers.  Look back at what people were saying in these forums right after the pick.  I didn't say nobody supported it.  Speaking of people that did support it.... Warhippy

38 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Way to completely avoid the points I made though

 

Is the pick looking bad?  Sure.  

Are the other teams I mentioned getting a free ride for their picks?  Yup.

 

Is Cap'n Hindsight and his merry band of revisionist history buffs cropping up like weeds after the WHC?  Oh ya.

 

The rest of this career is on Jake and Jake alone.  All Benning can do is surround him with skill players to help him out.  All Green can do is keep coaching the bad habits out of him and the rest of the 98% is on Jake to show up, work hard and not look like Byfugliens off season shadow.

 

Continuing to brow beat the point is at this point beyond sad, it is childish and a cry for attention.  We picked someone, another team or two picked someone else.  Time to move on me thinks and start worrying about this draft that doesn't have those consensus players like 2014 and think of who/how we can complain about our pick in this draft for the next 4 years

I thought this was a Jake Virtanen thread.

What did I avoid?  That some other teams had bad picks too?  Is there a point there?  

 

There's no revisionist history here by anyone other than yourself.  Talking about Fleury and Dal Colle like they are relevant to this conversation.  

Vancouver took Virtanen, if you scroll back to the start of this thread you'll see that most people that disagreed with the pick wanted Nylander or Ehlers. 

[JM_]

49 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I'm with you on this S'all.   We have seen fit Jake actually effect games with his physical play, skating, and finish.  We also saw fat Jake look like he is behind what's happening.  I believe fit Jake will show up at this camp, he will make our team, and he will score 20 this season while being a physical force.  I see a fit Jake as a perfect linemate for the Twins.  Ray Ferraro said Jake is a bigger Hansen.  It all adds up to a BIG year for Jake

"fat Jake"  

 

All I really care about tbh is if Jake can bring it in the playoffs. Regular season skill is great but some of the hits the playoffs are making a huge difference too. 

[JM_]

43 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

Similar styles between the 2 maybe but WN had 61 pts last year in his first full season. RNH hasn't ever had that many in a season. RNH should be aspiring to become as good as nylander one day. He is part of the reason why Edmonton sucked for all those years. Nylander is part of the reason Toronto went from last to playoff team last year. 

 

Like I said similar style of play not so similar offensive output.

yah but Willie has better line mates than the Nuge had. I see them in a very similar way, but sure WN prob av's 10 or so more points per year. 

 

So if people do kind of agree with the RHN comparison, if Jake can score 20 and be a real physical threat, would you trade that for RHN? Not so simple from that pov. 

 

Edited May 22, 2017 by S'all Good Man

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

"fat Jake"  

 

All I really care about tbh is if Jake can bring it in the playoffs. Regular season skill is great but some of the hits the playoffs are making a huge difference too. 

It's like a team has to survive those hits to get to the .Cup.  Jake, when fit, is still 210 and crazy fast and mean.  He would certainly be taking guys 'out' during games.  

[Toews]

20 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

yah but Willie has better line mates than the Nuge had. I see them in a very similar way, but sure WN prob av's 10 or so more points per year. 

 

So if people do kind of agree with the RHN comparison, if Jake can score 20 and be a real physical threat, would you trade that for RHN? Not so simple from that pov. 

 

Nylander is also a better possession player than RNH. I think the injuries and developing on the Oilers really did a number on RNH. I think both Yakupov and Hall would also have been much better players had they played for different teams. Nylander and RNH were similar level prospects, one just developed much better than the other did because he was put in a position to succeed at every level while RNH went from junior straight to the frying pan. It didn't help that the Oilers swapped coaches every other year while Nylander gets to develop and learn under an elite coach.

[Camel Toe Drag]

47 minutes ago, messier's_elbow said:

Not quite, but getting Boeser at 23 was a great pick to counteract the Virtanen pick. That's my point. 

Brock has only played 7 NHL games so far... and in that time he has look GOOD. Still too early to tell and compare. We'll reevaluate after next season when Brock pots 30 playing alongside Bo for a full 82 

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, CanadianRugby said:

Speaking of people that did support it.... Warhippy

I thought this was a Jake Virtanen thread.

What did I avoid?  That some other teams had bad picks too?  Is there a point there?  

 

There's no revisionist history here by anyone other than yourself.  Talking about Fleury and Dal Colle like they are relevant to this conversation.  

Vancouver took Virtanen, if you scroll back to the start of this thread you'll see that most people that disagreed with the pick wanted Nylander or Ehlers. 

Yes, I did support the pick.  What point exactly is there in whining about a situation you have no control over or pining over another pick/prospect like a lost GF.  The answer is none.  I supported Schroeder even until he was cast off.  If you love your team you support them period.

 

What did you avoid?  I pointed out that by CDC standards, Bennett has been a huge disappointment.  Dal Colle is a huge disappointment.  Fleury is a huge disappointment.  And all of those teams (as per the OP I was responding too) passed on sure fire star(s) Nylander Ehlers and Ritchie.  Yet somehow the Benning/Virtanen pick is the one to call in to question.

 

Now, as to how/why those other players are relevant to this conversation.  They were picked BEFORE said vaunted Superstar Nylander.  So therefore Calgary/New York absolutely screwed up by not taking the better player.  Caorlina absolutely screwed up by not taking the better player.  2 teams ahead of us and 1 directly behind.  Why, pray tell; are they getting a free pass for screwing up their picks?  It is important because Vancouver isn't the only team that passed on what the arm chair GMs here who know so much more than anyone else (in hindsight) knew was a 1st ballot HOF player in his rookie year Nylander.

 

They are relevant to this thread because it shows how hypocritical and sad their complaints are.

 

At days end Virtanen IS a Canuck, Nylander/Ehlers/Ritchie are NOT.  Virtanen is on a team on the down swing.  Ehlers Nylander Ritchie are not.  They are surrounded by superstar vets and star prospects/sophomores.  Virtanen is ours and he is not trending well.  Virtanen has to know it is now ALL on him. He can either succeed or fail based on his own efforts.  He will be lucky to have 2 full seasons left before he is simply cast off ala Schoreder if he doesn't improve

 

Edit**  This is born out of frustration of endless complaints and revisionist history from the Hindsight gang and the inability or unwillingness to simply support the team, the players or the prospects within it\

 

Edit 2**  Just looked back, Saw 2 people in the first 7 pages speaking about Ehlers but no NYlander.  Also noticed a few regulars who changed their tunes pretty drastically over then to now.  But, also saw endless high hopes and praise for Shinkaruk and hopeful comparisons to be a Dustin Brown 30 goal guy   It's funny what hindishgt can do to people

Edited May 22, 2017 by Warhippy

[2011]

56 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

A ton of fans were upset about it, and specifically wanted Nylader or Ehlers.  Look back at what people were saying in these forums right after the pick.  I didn't say nobody supported it.  Speaking of people that did support it.... Warhippy

I thought this was a Jake Virtanen thread.

What did I avoid?  That some other teams had bad picks too?  Is there a point there?  

 

There's no revisionist history here by anyone other than yourself.  Talking about Fleury and Dal Colle like they are relevant to this conversation.  

Vancouver took Virtanen, if you scroll back to the start of this thread you'll see that most people that disagreed with the pick wanted Nylander or Ehlers. 

Ok, I looked back and re-read the 1st 2 pages.  NOT 1 PERSON SAID THEY WOULD RATHER PICK NYLANDER. 

Sure Ehlers, Dal Colle, and Ritchie came up, but the point is; You cant go around telling other people to go look back at this or that,when you didn't do it yourself. 

 

 

[Ichiban604]

20 hours ago, Hemsky said:

Nylander won MVP at the WHC today. Great first season in the nhl and continued international success. He could have been a canuck. Daily reminder. 

Thanks for the reminder. Who ever still thinks that Jake is a great pick and need time to develop can go take an IQ test

[GoBoGo53]

9 minutes ago, 2011 said:

Ok, I looked back and re-read the 1st 2 pages.  NOT 1 PERSON SAID THEY WOULD RATHER PICK NYLANDER. 

Sure Ehlers, Dal Colle, and Ritchie came up, but the point is; You cant go around telling other people to go look back at this or that,when you didn't do it yourself. 

 

 

I get where you are coming from, but Nylander played in the 2nd tier of swedish hockey for more than half of the draft year. People on CDC wouldn't have seen him because nobody really watches 2nd tier swedish hockey. It's part of the reason he fell to 8 when he's likely a top 2 talent. that's on the scouts of every team who passed on nylander because they get paid the big bucks to watch these guys.

Edited May 22, 2017 by GoBoGo53

[dpn1]

I know Jake gets a lot flack but I think most of Canuck fans are cheering for him to make it.

[guntrix]

39 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Yes, I did support the pick.  What point exactly is there in whining about a situation you have no control over or pining over another pick/prospect like a lost GF.  The answer is none.  I supported Schroeder even until he was cast off.  If you love your team you support them period.

 

What did you avoid?  I pointed out that by CDC standards, Bennett has been a huge disappointment.  Dal Colle is a huge disappointment.  Fleury is a huge disappointment.  And all of those teams (as per the OP I was responding too) passed on sure fire star(s) Nylander Ehlers and Ritchie.  Yet somehow the Benning/Virtanen pick is the one to call in to question.

 

Now, as to how/why those other players are relevant to this conversation.  They were picked BEFORE said vaunted Superstar Nylander.  So therefore Calgary/New York absolutely screwed up by not taking the better player.  Caorlina absolutely screwed up by not taking the better player.  2 teams ahead of us and 1 directly behind.  Why, pray tell; are they getting a free pass for screwing up their picks?  It is important because Vancouver isn't the only team that passed on what the arm chair GMs here who know so much more than anyone else (in hindsight) knew was a 1st ballot HOF player in his rookie year Nylander.

 

They are relevant to this thread because it shows how hypocritical and sad their complaints are.

 

At days end Virtanen IS a Canuck, Nylander/Ehlers/Ritchie are NOT.  Virtanen is on a team on the down swing.  Ehlers Nylander Ritchie are not.  They are surrounded by superstar vets and star prospects/sophomores.  Virtanen is ours and he is not trending well.  Virtanen has to know it is now ALL on him. He can either succeed or fail based on his own efforts.  He will be lucky to have 2 full seasons left before he is simply cast off ala Schoreder if he doesn't improve

 

Edit**  This is born out of frustration of endless complaints and revisionist history from the Hindsight gang and the inability or unwillingness to simply support the team, the players or the prospects within it\

 

Edit 2**  Just looked back, Saw 2 people in the first 7 pages speaking about Ehlers but no NYlander.  Also noticed a few regulars who changed their tunes pretty drastically over then to now.  But, also saw endless high hopes and praise for Shinkaruk and hopeful comparisons to be a Dustin Brown 30 goal guy   It's funny what hindishgt can do to people

You do understand that Fleury, Bennett and Dal Colle are on far better trajectories right? 

 

I'm struggling to see why they're being mentioned when they're still FAR better prospects. It's like you don't understand the fact that you're diminishing the point you're trying to make. 

Edited May 22, 2017 by guntrix

[Toews]

39 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Why, pray tell; are they getting a free pass for screwing up their picks?

They aren't though. Their own fans are lambasting the picks right now. Flames fans have been unhappy with Bennett all season. Isles fans want to clean house with their scouts and current GM due to their poor drafting record, Strome, Neidereitter, Dal Colle have all disappointed and I can assure you Isles fans are pissed. Fleury is a different story because he is tracking to be a top 4 defenseman. While Canes fans aren't exactly thrilled with the pick, they have hopes that the team will trade Hanifin for an elite forward and Fleury can take the spot as a top 4 defenseman along with Faulk, Slavin, Pesce, they will still have an excellent D core. It also doesn't hurt that Sebastian Aho is looking like an elite talent and they got him at #34.

[Warhippy]

33 minutes ago, guntrix said:

You do understand that Fleury, Bennett and Dal Colle are on far better trajectories right? 

 

I'm struggling to see why they're being mentioned when they're still FAR better prospects. It's like you don't understand the fact that you're diminishing the point you're trying to make. 

I'd be amused that you so capably missed the entire point I just made if I wasn't so exhausted having this conversation here.

 

Nylander='s better than Dal Colle, bennett, Virtanen, Fleury

 

Calgary, New York, Vancouver, Carolina passed on Nylander

 

4 GMs screwed the pooch.

[Gaudette Celly]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

Yes, I did support the pick.  What point exactly is there in whining about a situation you have no control over or pining over another pick/prospect like a lost GF.  The answer is none.  I supported Schroeder even until he was cast off.  If you love your team you support them period.

Almost three years on now and they still can't let go or or accept reality.  At least LaBamba's dour arse got booted out, but there's still that cadre of usual suspects that are absolutely obsessed over a 20-year-old kid... now 900 pages worth.

 

Indeed, Canucks could pick Rasmussen or Suzuki 5th overall this draft and I'd support them regardless.  Certainly wouldn't whinge and whine about it like an infant for years afterwards -- that's borderline mental illness.

[Warhippy]

5 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

Almost three years on now and they still can't let go or or accept reality.  At least LaBamba's dour arse got booted out, but there's still that cadre of usual suspects that are absolutely obsessed over a 20-year-old kid... now 900 pages worth.

 

Indeed, Canucks could pick Rasmussen or Suzuki 5th overall this draft and I'd support them regardless.  Certainly wouldn't whinge and whine about it like an infant for years afterwards -- that's borderline mental illness.

The end result is these are our kids.  If you cannot support them fine.  But endlessly trying to elevate yourself by degrading them on an internet forum says a lot about the type of person a poster is.