Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[aGENT]

Just now, 73 Percent said:

Wouldn't be against that at all.

It would probably just spill in to other threads. Keep this $&!#-show in here I guess...

[ForsbergTheGreat]

41 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

Criticism is fine. But what have you said here that hasn't been said 1000 times over? You must be getting off on it some How. It's the only logical reason for you repeating this $&!# over and over and over and over. Tell me right now how you putting Jake down and bringing up his shape coming into camp a year ago contributes to Jake virtanen talk.  Might as well bring up horvats lack of speed in his thread too. 

This is Jake Virtanen discussion, talking about his AHL production for the year compared to the rest of his draft class belongs in that discussion.  Or would you prefer us to start another thread about that.   Talking about the expectations of a 6th overall pick belong in this thread. Is this the horvat thread?  No, so why would we talk about that, 

 

When and if Jake can overcome his issues guess what, the criticism stop,but until this disappointment is the reality of Jake and it's a fair reality, you've already admitted that.  Until jake actually brings something good to the table to talk about negativity is going to own this thread. 

 

Yes things get repeated but that like any thread. The NHL draft thread is  300 pages long, how many times can 5 players get talked about that's not been repeated. 

 

You and many others just can't handle criticism.  It's as simple as that. 

[ice orca]

14 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

We know he came into camp in bad shape. We know hes worked hard and is now in shape. 

 

Now we wait to see results not beat a dead horse. 

People said he was in shape last year as well, even when the fat pic of him was posted.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

59 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I don't think that's true. I think people are tired of reading the SAME, OLD criticisms of Jake, with nothing NEW to add and no recognition of the fact that those criticisms appear to apply more to his PAST than his PRESENT.

 

Is jake producing.

Is jake being counted on to produce

Is jake showing up on a consistent basis.

 

You're acting like it was 3 years ago.  We're talking about a span of a few months.  It takes way more than a couple game hot streaks to get excited.  You think this fan base would have learned from kassian who lite it up at the end of every season. 

 

59 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Even the people preaching patience on this page have all agreed he's underwhelmed thus far, is behind where we'd hoped he'd be in his development etc. Seems we're quite ok voicing and recognizing those criticisms actually, contrary to your (and others) sentiment there.

Haha, really, then why when someone makes a factual post about his last season production, it gets immediately jumped on? 

 

59 minutes ago, J.R. said:

We're just not continuing to dump on him for them with nothing new to add and recognition that he appears to be back on track in his development with a far better understanding on what he needs to do to be an NHL player.

Again, unless he makes the team out of camp and or is a consistent counted on player in the AHL who produces he's no where near being "back on track".  We didn't drafted him at 6th overall to be a fast skating PF that shows up randomly in a season.

 

59 minutes ago, J.R. said:

If he falls on his face this year, by all means, further criticism will be warranted and I'll be right there with you and the others. Personally, I don't see that happening but if it does, feel free to bitch away THEN.

Why wait till then.  He's fell on his face today, his play today is fair game for criticism .....

[Toews]

17 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Absolutely.   Sums this up perfectly.   If someone is in the AHL to learn how to be a professional, including the south 100 feet of the rink, then stats take a back seat as NO ONE HERE knows what was asked of any given player.    The negativity, treating this like Playstation and overall puerile ranting about something that can be simply proven come this September and beyond is way too typical of a handful of CDC posters who seem here only to bash, pump others on other teams and overall troll Canuck fanbase.

You do realize that every single prospect on that list went to the AHL to "learn how to be a professional" and improve their two way game? Most players on that list are in the AHL so that they can learn the pro game.

[73 Percent]

13 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

This is Jake Virtanen discussion, talking about his AHL production for the year compared to the rest of his draft class belongs in that discussion.  Or would you prefer us to start another thread about that.   Talking about the expectations of a 6th overall pick belong in this thread. Is this the horvat thread?  No, so why would we talk about that, 

 

When and if Jake can overcome his issues guess what, the criticism stop,but until this disappointment is the reality of Jake and it's a fair reality, you've already admitted that.  Until jake actually brings something good to the table to talk about negativity is going to own this thread. 

 

Yes things get repeated but that like any thread. The NHL draft thread is  300 pages long, how many times can 5 players get talked about that's not been repeated. 

 

You and many others just can't handle criticism.  It's as simple as that. 

It sure does. That makes up and .05% of this thread. The majority of this thread is jakes fitness a year ago.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

11 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

It sure does. That makes up and .05% of this thread. The majority of this thread is jakes fitness a year ago.

and why did my post comparing him to the rest of the first rounds AHL production have to do with Jakes fitness?

[Toews]

1 minute ago, 73 Percent said:

It sure does. That makes up and .05% of this thread. The majority of this thread is jakes fitness a year ago.

Jake's fitness actually gets brought up as a point in his favor. I give him credit for losing ~30 pounds and I do believe that he will be fit in camp next year but IMO it isn't going to fix the flaws in his game. I have made detailed posts outlining his flaws and where I hope to see him improve. Hardly anyone seemed to be interested in having that discussion. We aren't going to see an entirely different player just because he shed some weight. Jake still has a long ways to go. To me he needs to go down next year rather than be put in a 4th line role because that will be about as high as he will be on the roster. Even guys like Goldobin and Gaunce are well ahead of him. I wouldn't be surprised if Dahlen and Gaudette have better showings in camp as well.

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, Toews said:

Jake's fitness actually gets brought up as a point in his favor. I give him credit for losing ~30 pounds and I do believe that he will be fit in camp next year but IMO it isn't going to fix the flaws in his game. I have made detailed posts outlining his flaws and where I hope to see him improve. Hardly anyone seemed to be interested in having that discussion. We aren't going to see an entirely different player just because he shed some weight. Jake still has a long ways to go. To me he needs to go down next year rather than be put in a 4th line role because that will be about as high as he will be on the roster. Even guys like Goldobin and Gaunce are well ahead of him. I wouldn't be surprised if Dahlen and Gaudette have better showings in camp as well.

I think now that's he got a base of how to compete and how he's expected to play consistently (and how to prepare to do so), he should be sent down to Utica to build off that and get his offensive mojo back, as well.

 

He's going to need some play drivers in Utica for that to be as successful as it could be though.

 

I'm hoping Dahlen and Goldobin are down there with him to start as well. The C's are the big question....

Edited June 2, 2017 by J.R.

[Sean Monahan]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

That moment you walk in to the Virtanen thread then turn around and head to any thread regarding Muslims for civilized and intelligent debate....

FTFY

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, Sean Monahan said:

FTFY

It's applicable either way 

[WeneedLumme]

3 hours ago, shayster007 said:

Man... This must be the single worst thread in current CDC. I keep coming back hoping for actually updates on a prospect that I'm whole heartedly rooting for, and instead continue to return to the place where the overly negative people of the internet come to trade reputation points... Bummer. 

You know you're on the right track when you get up voted by several Canucks fans and down voted by a couple of the Canucks haters/trolls.

[MeanSeanBean]

Just now, WeneedLumme said:

You know you're on the right track when you get up voted by several Canucks fans and down voted by a couple of the Canucks haters/trolls.

Right? I was testing a theory. It was supported quite firmly by Ash and 5th so far. Just waiting for another poster or 2 to chime in with a negative and I'll be spot on.  Gotta hand it to them, negativity breeds negativity, they stick together. 

[Qwags]

It's good to see Virtanen taking his offseason seriously. I'm cautiously optimistic for the future.

[Rob_Zepp]

2 hours ago, ashlynnbrookefan said:

I'm a massive Canuck fan, me saying Jake has been a disappointment doesnt change that in the slightest 

I agree with you.  Saying you are disappointed in any player is more than a logical response from a fan that isn't happy from what they expected of a player.   However, to post literally dozens of times about it (which I don't think YOU do) and fabricate issues and/or question the kid's actions for the rest of his life based upon a minute sample size of his potential career is troll-like.   Statements like "this player has not met what I expected, but I am supportive of him improving and wish him luck at camp and hope to see signs of encouragement" is what a fan says.   Statements that write off a 20 year old and and then go from there with attacks on everything from Playstation-like (e.g. cherry-picked and only thinking PPG or similar is all that matters in a team sport) statistics to food choices to how he likes to play other sports is troll-like and distasteful.   I would like to think a true fan would write down what they would feel comfortable being said about themselves if they were a prospect that hadn't quite met everyone's expectations.   That allows words like "disappointment" to be used in a constructive manner.

 

Perhaps I live in a world that doesn't exist any longer.   Perhaps I am too thin-skinned on criticisms I received.   Either way, I don't see how bashing a 20 year old with all that talent is in any way supportive of that player or the team in general - and isn't the whole concept of being a fan to support?!

[ashlynnbrookefan]

2 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

I agree with you.  Saying you are disappointed in any player is more than a logical response from a fan that isn't happy from what they expected of a player.   However, to post literally dozens of times about it (which I don't think YOU do) and fabricate issues and/or question the kid's actions for the rest of his life based upon a minute sample size of his potential career is troll-like.   Statements like "this player has not met what I expected, but I am supportive of him improving and wish him luck at camp and hope to see signs of encouragement" is what a fan says.   Statements that write off a 20 year old and and then go from there with attacks on everything from Playstation-like (e.g. cherry-picked and only thinking PPG or similar is all that matters in a team sport) statistics to food choices to how he likes to play other sports is troll-like and distasteful.   I would like to think a true fan would write down what they would feel comfortable being said about themselves if they were a prospect that hadn't quite met everyone's expectations.   That allows words like "disappointment" to be used in a constructive manner.

 

Perhaps I live in a world that doesn't exist any longer.   Perhaps I am too thin-skinned on criticisms I received.   Either way, I don't see how bashing a 20 year old with all that talent is in any way supportive of that player or the team in general - and isn't the whole concept of being a fan to support?!

They get my time and my money, I don't support everything each player or management does. I'm not even killing Jake in these boards, I'm just being realistic. People are being unrealistic with wild claims that he's going to do great things because he's in shape finally. I'm waiting for him to give me reason to jump on his bandwagon but until then if someone says something illogical then I can put my 2 cents in. I'm not trying to offend anyone at all, if an opinion offends you then you certainly are thin skinned (I'm not saying you are, just a general statement). Anyone that says I'm a Canuck basher or troll just isn't correct. I'm a die hard fan. Because I'm not stoked on Virtanen doesn't mean anything. I couldn't be happier with guys like Gaudette or Lockwood. 

[Rob_Zepp]

32 minutes ago, ashlynnbrookefan said:

They get my time and my money, I don't support everything each player or management does. I'm not even killing Jake in these boards, I'm just being realistic. People are being unrealistic with wild claims that he's going to do great things because he's in shape finally. I'm waiting for him to give me reason to jump on his bandwagon but until then if someone says something illogical then I can put my 2 cents in. I'm not trying to offend anyone at all, if an opinion offends you then you certainly are thin skinned (I'm not saying you are, just a general statement). Anyone that says I'm a Canuck basher or troll just isn't correct. I'm a die hard fan. Because I'm not stoked on Virtanen doesn't mean anything. I couldn't be happier with guys like Gaudette or Lockwood. 

I don't think you read what I said.   If you constructively provide input including disappointment, no problem.  You disagree with someone more apt to give benefit of doubt to a talented 20 year old, no problem.   My problem is simple - and I would think you share this given your thoughtful posts - the trollish activity of slamming players that goes on page after page, post after post with every possible manner of attack (minutes putting skates on, ratio of mustard on burger - only two haven't seen so far) and then comparing entirely different players as some form of way of PROVING how bad the kid(s) is.   It is far from fan-like behaviour.  What you have posted seems reasonable, level-headed and I would find it hard for anyone to find it offensive but each to their own.   My issue is with a handful of trolls that I believe have agendas that are less than mature and I have no issue in pointing it out as while the Canucks are really not "my team", they are my favourite Canadian team and an organization that in the old days did right by me.

[ashlynnbrookefan]

6 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

I don't think you read what I said.   If you constructively provide input including disappointment, no problem.  You disagree with someone more apt to give benefit of doubt to a talented 20 year old, no problem.   My problem is simple - and I would think you share this given your thoughtful posts - the trollish activity of slamming players that goes on page after page, post after post with every possible manner of attack (minutes putting skates on, ratio of mustard on burger - only two haven't seen so far) and then comparing entirely different players as some form of way of PROVING how bad the kid(s) is.   It is far from fan-like behaviour.  What you have posted seems reasonable, level-headed and I would find it hard for anyone to find it offensive but each to their own.   My issue is with a handful of trolls that I believe have agendas that are less than mature and I have no issue in pointing it out as while the Canucks are really not "my team", they are my favourite Canadian team and an organization that in the old days did right by me.

I hear what you're saying I just don't see many people acting trollish. I see fans that aren't happy with a player and vent their frustration which they're entitled to do. I'm not trying to argue with you over what you said. You're clearly not stupid and seem to take good points when they're presented, I wish everyone on this board had an outlook like that. i get why people are as unhappy as some are with him. The dead horse only gets beaten because after someone puts him down someone else seems to pre maturely pump him up, and I know all about being pre mature haha. You have vary valid points, and I like your style of debating opposed to others on here

[elvis15]

Good times. Still some people overly negative and still some people overly positive here in the Virtanen thread. No surprise really. Especially no surprise that both sides are still upset at the other for when things went too far in the past, and both sides are still on each other's cases when any post even approaches that.

 

Here's a suggestion: can we all just let it go and ignore posts we find overly positive (i.e. Jake's back on track to be a superstar!) or overly negative (i.e. Virtanen's a bust still even if he got fit.) and focus on any actual discussion? Drawing the other side back into it over something we shouldn't be really that upset about so that it turns into several pages of discussion all its own isn't productive.

[MeanSeanBean]

2 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

I don't think you read what I said.   If you constructively provide input including disappointment, no problem.  You disagree with someone more apt to give benefit of doubt to a talented 20 year old, no problem.   My problem is simple - and I would think you share this given your thoughtful posts - the trollish activity of slamming players that goes on page after page, post after post with every possible manner of attack (minutes putting skates on, ratio of mustard on burger - only two haven't seen so far) and then comparing entirely different players as some form of way of PROVING how bad the kid(s) is.   It is far from fan-like behaviour.  What you have posted seems reasonable, level-headed and I would find it hard for anyone to find it offensive but each to their own.   My issue is with a handful of trolls that I believe have agendas that are less than mature and I have no issue in pointing it out as while the Canucks are really not "my team", they are my favourite Canadian team and an organization that in the old days did right by me.

1 hour ago, ashlynnbrookefan said:

I hear what you're saying I just don't see many people acting trollish. I see fans that aren't happy with a player and vent their frustration which they're entitled to do. I'm not trying to argue with you over what you said. You're clearly not stupid and seem to take good points when they're presented, I wish everyone on this board had an outlook like that. i get why people are as unhappy as some are with him. The dead horse only gets beaten because after someone puts him down someone else seems to pre maturely pump him up, and I know all about being pre mature haha. You have vary valid points, and I like your style of debating opposed to others on here

Totally fair response to the subject at hand.

 

2 hours ago, The 5th Line said:

Minutes putting skates on?  Ratio of mustard?  What the hell are you talking about?  lol

Solid response, thanks for the effort.

 

 

 

This is the difference between someone like Toews, FTG, ABF and others around here who criticize  of Jake with dignity, and a troll comment. 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2017 by shayster007