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Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW


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36 minutes ago, UticaHockey said:

Green almost exclusively used Virtanen on the RW even though he generated many scoring chances streaking down the left side.  He always lined up on the right side for faceoffs but often found himself crossing over to the left side as the play broke through the neutral zone.

Then the question is, was Jake initiating that or was it coaching direction?

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5 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

Then the question is, was Jake initiating that or was it coaching direction?

That is Green's system.It's like on overload and support the puck. Jake's speed puts him out in front of the play when the puck is pushed from the left. It does so happen that he sees the ice 100 times better on the left side and it sets up better for his right hand shot, so looking at the highlights people see him scoring almost exclusively from the left and assume he's playing LW. If the puck is behind their own net, you see him exclusively parked on the right half wall waiting for a breakout pass.

 

I can already tell Green is going to receive tons of hate and shreiking from the masses. The other thing he loves to do is mix his lines, he does it constantly. He identifies which players are going and puts them together and he does it every game until there is a definite fit and steady production.

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35 minutes ago, canuckledraggin said:

That is Green's system.It's like on overload and support the puck. Jake's speed puts him out in front of the play when the puck is pushed from the left. It does so happen that he sees the ice 100 times better on the left side and it sets up better for his right hand shot, so looking at the highlights people see him scoring almost exclusively from the left and assume he's playing LW. If the puck is behind their own net, you see him exclusively parked on the right half wall waiting for a breakout pass.

 

I can already tell Green is going to receive tons of hate and shreiking from the masses. The other thing he loves to do is mix his lines, he does it constantly. He identifies which players are going and puts them together and he does it every game until there is a definite fit and steady production.

wonder if we will see a split of the Sedins. At this point I wouldnt be against it. I think splitting them up in certain situations and putting them back together in others is the way to go at this point in their career. 

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I think that Jake will come into training camp this year invigorated and intent on making the team. Having Green as the head coach will be a huge motivating factor as well, as from what I have heard Jake felt that Green was instrumental in getting him back on track.

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On ‎7‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 10:26 AM, Borvat said:

I agree with your analysis, but the real issue at this point is can Jake be committed enough to reach his potential.  That has been my question (and others) from the beginning as I live in Abbotsford and have followed him from his high school days.  Hockey came easy for him. Now that he is being challenged to put in the effort, will he step up?

 

I hope he does for his sake.

I think Jake showed a huge amount of commitment losing the twenty pounds and being open to what Green did for him. Jake has become a better player because of it.

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3 hours ago, UticaHockey said:

Green almost exclusively used Virtanen on the RW even though he generated many scoring chances streaking down the left side.  He always lined up on the right side for faceoffs but often found himself crossing over to the left side as the play broke through the neutral zone.

So long as Virt's entering the Ozone  on the left side most of the time, I don't really care where he starts on face offs etc.

 

He's probably better defensively/taking passes/getting pucks off the boards on the right side so it would make sense having him play there on the back half of the ice.

 

 

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5 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I think Jake showed a huge amount of commitment losing the twenty pounds and being open to what Green did for him. Jake has become a better player because of it.

It's a great first step for sure.  But being in decent shape when you are a young professional athlete trying to start your career that can pay millions of dollars isn't something I would give him much credit for.  It's pretty basic.  Showing up 20+ pounds over weight and out of shape isn't a good thing.  

 

If he can prove he's learned his lesson and is committed to his craft I will be totally on the Jake train.  Like I said I'm pulling for the young man.

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10 hours ago, winthecup said:

wonder if we will see a split of the Sedins. At this point I wouldnt be against it. I think splitting them up in certain situations and putting them back together in others is the way to go at this point in their career. 

If there's a coach that would attempt it, it's Green. Willie D seemed almost afraid when even asked the question from the media. The truth is that the league has got a half a step faster and the Sedins didn't have a half step to lose in the 1st place. Playing them on the same line just doesn't make sense anymore considering Daniel doesn't have the same confidence in his shot. Their passing and ability to read the play is still top 6 quality so it only makes sense to spread that playmaking over 2 lines.

 

Maybe there's a locker room code that coaches won't violate but I see it as the country club mentality. I think there will be a time this year that the twins spend time apart and it's overdue by a couple of seasons in my estimation.

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44 minutes ago, canuckledraggin said:

If there's a coach that would attempt it, it's Green. Willie D seemed almost afraid when even asked the question from the media. The truth is that the league has got a half a step faster and the Sedins didn't have a half step to lose in the 1st place. Playing them on the same line just doesn't make sense anymore considering Daniel doesn't have the same confidence in his shot. Their passing and ability to read the play is still top 6 quality so it only makes sense to spread that playmaking over 2 lines.

 

Maybe there's a locker room code that coaches won't violate but I see it as the country club mentality. I think there will be a time this year that the twins spend time apart and it's overdue by a couple of seasons in my estimation.

I hope we see them split up a lot this season. Too slow to play together 5 on 5.

 

 

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53 minutes ago, canuckledraggin said:

If there's a coach that would attempt it, it's Green. Willie D seemed almost afraid when even asked the question from the media. The truth is that the league has got a half a step faster and the Sedins didn't have a half step to lose in the 1st place. Playing them on the same line just doesn't make sense anymore considering Daniel doesn't have the same confidence in his shot. Their passing and ability to read the play is still top 6 quality so it only makes sense to spread that playmaking over 2 lines.

 

Maybe there's a locker room code that coaches won't violate but I see it as the country club mentality. I think there will be a time this year that the twins spend time apart and it's overdue by a couple of seasons in my estimation.

I've never understood the point of separating the Sedins. They were never the fastest guys in the first place yet they succeeded through sibling intuition. It may sound cliché but they each seem to know where the other is and that's what's given them the competitive edge throughout their careers.

 

Their fall in production isn't because they're far slower... speed was never really their strength in the first place. I think it has more to do with the fact that they're nearing 37 years old and that, being the human beings that they are, they're naturally not nearly as productive as they were a decade ago. 

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Just now, guntrix said:

I've never understood the point of separating the Sedins. They were never the fastest guys in the first place yet they succeeded through sibling intuition. It may sound cliché but they each seem to know where the other is and that's what's given them the competitive edge throughout their careers.

 

Their fall in production isn't because their far slower... speed was never really their strength in the first place. I think it has more to do with the fact that they're nearing 37 years old and that, being the human beings that they are, they're naturally not nearly as productive as they were a decade ago. 

It's the wisdom they could give the next generation. Why keep Sedinery a trade secret. It's not as though they have supernatural powers. They just know where the other is going to be from years of repetition. Daniel on Horvat's wing is bad how?

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I hope Jake has a great training camp and pre-season but at the end of the day we need to step back and take a look at the big picture. We're not contending, or even making the playoffs, for at least another 3 years. This team's Cup window is 3-5 years time. We've got plenty of wingers, we've got veterans too. We don't NEED Virtanen in the NHL right now, and quite frankly I don't think he'd learn much playing 6 minutes a night every 3rd game. For him, he'd be best suited in the AHL still. He's making progress, lets not ruin that.

 

Florida sent McCann back to the AHL after a bad NHL stint and he started putting up offensive numbers there too. I expect they'll do the same this season. We need to be patient with Virtanen and that means develop him nice and slowly. Focus on his defensive and physical game first for at least another season in Utica in their middle-6 forward group, then maybe the next season get him trying to score more as an offensive role.

 

I don't think we should throw him into the NHL for at least another season or two. 

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6 minutes ago, canuckledraggin said:

It's the wisdom they could give the next generation. Why keep Sedinery a trade secret. It's not as though they have supernatural powers. They just know where the other is going to be from years of repetition. Daniel on Horvat's wing is bad how?

Because you'd be minimizing the offensive production of our top two players. Having no Sedinery for the sake of watching Horvat play with Daniel would be a hard watch, even if Horvat presumably excels. 

 

What the Sedins have is special and it's something rarely, if ever, seen in hockey. Daniel and Henrik may be able to show Horvat and co a few tricks on how to find the open guy but at the end of the day, chances are the kids won't be able to replicate what Hank and Dank have. It's something we take for granted given all the years we've had them at our disposal. 

 

If it were as easy as repetition, we'd be seeing more Sedin-like pairs. I can't think of one duo as intuitive as Henrik and Daniel. 

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1 hour ago, canuckledraggin said:

It's the wisdom they could give the next generation. Why keep Sedinery a trade secret. It's not as though they have supernatural powers. They just know where the other is going to be from years of repetition. Daniel on Horvat's wing is bad how?

They each need to look to see where the other is before passing, unlike when the Sedins play together. That slows their play down, making it easier to defend against. 

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11 hours ago, guntrix said:

Because you'd be minimizing the offensive production of our top two players. Having no Sedinery for the sake of watching Horvat play with Daniel would be a hard watch, even if Horvat presumably excels. 

 

What the Sedins have is special and it's something rarely, if ever, seen in hockey. Daniel and Henrik may be able to show Horvat and co a few tricks on how to find the open guy but at the end of the day, chances are the kids won't be able to replicate what Hank and Dank have. It's something we take for granted given all the years we've had them at our disposal. 

 

If it were as easy as repetition, we'd be seeing more Sedin-like pairs. I can't think of one duo as intuitive as Henrik and Daniel. 

 

I agree with Gunt.

 

The Sedins when paired very much equate to a 'more than the sum of their parts' situation and splitting them up accomplishes very little IMO.

 

They're older, slower and no longer have the team depth/quality around them when as they were in their primes. Expecting them to still produce at anything near the same levels under those conditions is just silly.

 

We're far better off putting a complimentary player on their W and giving them some offensive depth around them and a puck moving D or two to play with  if we hope to see them bounce back a bit from last year.

 

People question the Gagner/MDZ signings but (beyond sheltering/being stepping stones for youth and pieces we can move later) they're also going to help the Sedins produce more. When teams are going to have to pick and choose which line to shut down with their best D pair and defensive forwards, it's going to open up space for the other lines.

 

As our opponent, do you try to shut down Horvat's line? The Sedins? Gagner's line? Just like the match up issues the Bonino/Kessel '3rd' line creates in PIT (albeit at a lesser level), that's going to leave some open ice out their for somebody to take advantage of.

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18 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I hope Jake has a great training camp and pre-season but at the end of the day we need to step back and take a look at the big picture. We're not contending, or even making the playoffs, for at least another 3 years. This team's Cup window is 3-5 years time. We've got plenty of wingers, we've got veterans too. We don't NEED Virtanen in the NHL right now, and quite frankly I don't think he'd learn much playing 6 minutes a night every 3rd game. For him, he'd be best suited in the AHL still. He's making progress, lets not ruin that.

 

Florida sent McCann back to the AHL after a bad NHL stint and he started putting up offensive numbers there too. I expect they'll do the same this season. We need to be patient with Virtanen and that means develop him nice and slowly. Focus on his defensive and physical game first for at least another season in Utica in their middle-6 forward group, then maybe the next season get him trying to score more as an offensive role.

 

I don't think we should throw him into the NHL for at least another season or two. 

Completely agree! Although I dont think you will find too many with the same patience. No need to rush any of the young guys right now.

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20 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I hope Jake has a great training camp and pre-season but at the end of the day we need to step back and take a look at the big picture. We're not contending, or even making the playoffs, for at least another 3 years. This team's Cup window is 3-5 years time. We've got plenty of wingers, we've got veterans too. We don't NEED Virtanen in the NHL right now, and quite frankly I don't think he'd learn much playing 6 minutes a night every 3rd game. For him, he'd be best suited in the AHL still. He's making progress, lets not ruin that.

 

Florida sent McCann back to the AHL after a bad NHL stint and he started putting up offensive numbers there too. I expect they'll do the same this season. We need to be patient with Virtanen and that means develop him nice and slowly. Focus on his defensive and physical game first for at least another season in Utica in their middle-6 forward group, then maybe the next season get him trying to score more as an offensive role.

 

I don't think we should throw him into the NHL for at least another season or two. 

I'd agree, though I expect Virtanen to push hard for a spot this training camp. Even if he doesn't make it, I would love to see him continue to improve in the AHL and become one of Utica's most dominant players. I don't think he needs two more AHL years, but one more could be nice.

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