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Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW


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23 hours ago, Boudrias said:

I was expecting a more physical game from Virtanen. He started his NHL career finishing his checks regularly. Seemed to hurt his shoulder and never really returned with the same intensity. Not seeing any of his Utica games I could not say whether that side of his game is there. His cut to the net with speed seems to be his signature move. 

That shoulder is his achilles heel,....Theres been several times I've seen him grimacing on the bench favouring his shoulder (and these are from fairly 'innocent' checks)..I've often wondered if his fear of re-injuring his shoulder has changed his game?

 

 

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2 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

Why are you calling people out for being negative in every god damn thread?  All the guy said was that Jake has been underwhelming since being drafted WHICH HE HAS.  The poster you quoted was actually giving Jake more than a few compliments as well, which you failed to recognize.  Just back off and stop getting your panties in a knot

Don't wear panties - do you recommend it from personal experience?

 

I call out those who are negative constantly without being anything else.   It is what I do.   If if bothers you so much, ignore me - that feature exists.   

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8 minutes ago, Toews said:

Hopefully you are correct but comparing their careers, Torres was further ahead of Jake at the same age. 

By the time Torres was 22 he has two NHL seasons and for 31 games, zero goals and six assists.    Jake Virtanen will not be 22 until the start of 2018-19 season and he already has 65 NHL games already with 7 goals and 7 assists.    

 

If you are comparing NHL careers, which I assume is the goal here for both players, not sure what "further ahead" you mean?

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23 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

By the time Torres was 22 he has two NHL seasons and for 31 games, zero goals and six assists.    Jake Virtanen will not be 22 until the start of 2018-19 season and he already has 65 NHL games already with 7 goals and 7 assists.    

 

If you are comparing NHL careers, which I assume is the goal here for both players, not sure what "further ahead" you mean?

AHL + junior career thus far. There is little point in comparing their NHL career as Torres only played 14 NHL games in D+2 season. He was also an early birthday so I am comparing his D+2 with Virtanen D+3.

 

The goal maybe the NHL but that doesn't mean you fixate on NHL totals especially when the sample size is low.

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18 hours ago, MJDDawg said:

I really hope Virt eventually makes the team and goes on to a great career. But all that those top 10 goals show is that he's faster than a lot of junior players and was able to cut to the front of the net with ease. Nine out of ten of those goals don't happen in the NHL on a regular basis. He tried to play the same game when he first came up and it's why he was sent to Utica. 

 

He'll need to learn to work his tail off below the hash marks to get dirty goals if he wants a regular NHL job.

i still think jake still has star potential.  He has a very unique package and once he finds his game i think we will all be impressed. Jake is a very exciting player who just needs time to find his game.

 

Jakes speed, shot and physicality all still exist.  the hurtle for jake has been learning how to put it all together in an effective way that will translate to the nhl.

 

i personally don't think the mistake was bringing Jake into the nhl at 19 but rather expecting him to play a defensive first role under willie.  Any chance jake took offensively would be criticized by wilie and the coaching staff.

 

if they let Jake focus on offense and providing energy without scolding him for his defensive play we may of seen a much more dynamic Jake Virtanen.

 

To jakes testimite.  He did as he asked and became one of our better defensive plsyers according to corsi ratings.  Jake did what he was asked but his offensive creativity was sucked from the life of him.

 

i beileve learning from Green was probably the best thing for jake.  His game has been remodeled and if he consistently apply the offensive and defensive teachings taught to him i think he will be a very effective top 6 winger.

 

forcing jake to play the right side was silly.  when he got back from the wjc and lined up with the sedins.  did you guys notice? he naturally played off the left boards and dominated his first few shifts.  Jake can do a lot on the left side with his power moves.

 

i look forward to seeing jake excel next season where ever he plays in Utica or Vancouver.

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Jake just needs good coaching and to keep his head on straight....I think he has enough good qualities about him to overcome his propensity to party ( rumoured, but likely true).

The coaching is going to be there for him...so it is up to him, it would only take one more year of "Serious" work to turn Jake into a monster checker/hitter/shooter....if he hones his shot enough to be a 20 goal scorer ....how can you keep him out of the top 6.

We will be running 3 fast paced lines and the Sedins line, so I think we see even more of a trend to even minutes being handed out to the first 3 lines and just a couple minutes less for the 4th line....which is where a mentally fit Jake should start:

 

Baer / Bo / Boeser

Granny / Suter / Rodin

Sedins  / Gagner or Goldy or Erikkson

Dorsett / Gaunce or Gagner /  Virtanen

Burmistrov or Erikkson

 

Goldy looks like the man on the outside more than Jake....Goldy plays in the top 9 or Utica...Jake can play bottom 6 if he is right in the mind....we will see....

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can anyone think of a similar player to jakes stature who has close to his blistering speed who has consistently popped in 20-25 goals a season?  

 

i honestly think a 20-25 goal season for jake isn't out of the question in the next 2 or 3 seasons.  

 

Is a Jannik Hansen comparison really that outrageous? I think jake can be much better but who else comes even close to his speed? he is considerably bigger then Hansen yet looks just as fast if not faster at a younger age.  

 

who would fit that description though?

 

A 6'1 - 6'2 winger that weighs around 210-215 who skates like the wind, and has an elite level shot?

 

im having a hard time finding many comparibles.  who would fit that description and pot 20-25 goals? or 30 even?

 

hmmmm

Edited by Rush17
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3 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

It is posts like this that have me pulling for the kid even harder than I have been.   I was on the fence with this pick and this player but all the crap has given me a new sense of "he doesn't deserve this" perspective.   Your post is so much a "at best he will be a fourth liner" troll attempt to rile up those who want to see him succeed.    He didn't have a "disappointing draft+1" year based upon what his Hitmen coaches said who challenged him to be more of a leader on a much weaker team.   Plus, and you are one of the best at it, continually comparing him to unlike players taken in that draft is an easy win now and we all get that - why not focus on Virtanen and what Green said about his process last year?   Why make everything so damn negative?

 

Let the kid develop.   If he is no where in two or three more seasons, put a fork in him.   However, this constant barrage of negative comparisons and BS projections that don't mess with what his actual coaches say about him (unless you think Green is a bald-faced liar), has run its course and is beyond tiresome.    Given your silly avatar in your sig, the immature side of me hopes that not only does Virtanen make the team but he WIllie Mitchell's Toews into la-la land for a few months.    Nothing life-threatening but so that Chicago doesn't have their $8 million 58 point guy around for a season or so.

I didn't say "at best he will be a 4th liner", what I meant was he can start out on the 4th line and work his way up, which some prospects can't do because they aren't fit for that role. I also said it's still possible for him to be a middle-6er.

 

I'm not being negative, I'm just stating facts. Anybody who thinks Virtanen's progression so far has been anything but a disappointment is simply delusional.

 

And did you just say you want someone you don't even know, on another team, that is generally considered "a good guy" concussed and have his career hindered because a prospect on your team isn't highly regarded? lol...

 

29 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

can anyone think of a similar player to jakes stature who has close to his blistering speed who has consistently popped in 20-25 goals a season?  

 

i honestly think a 20-25 goal season for jake isn't out of the question in the next 2 or 3 seasons.  

 

Is a Jannik Hansen comparison really that outrageous? I think jake can be much better but who else comes even close to his speed? he is considerably bigger then Hansen yet looks just as fast if not faster at a younger age.  

 

who would fit that description though?

 

A 6'1 - 6'2 winger that weighs around 210-215 who skates like the wind, and has an elite level shot?

 

im having a hard time finding many comparibles.  who would fit that description and pot 20-25 goals? or 30 even?

 

hmmmm

Chris Kreider is the comparison most people use: big, strong, skilled and a great skater. Consistency issues probably has capped his potential at a 2nd line level, but a 2nd liner is still a very good player and I would be very happy if Virtanen becomes that.

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20 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

I didn't say "at best he will be a 4th liner", what I meant was he can start out on the 4th line and work his way up, which some prospects can't do because they aren't fit for that role. I also said it's still possible for him to be a middle-6er.

 

I'm not being negative, I'm just stating facts. Anybody who thinks Virtanen's progression so far has been anything but a disappointment is simply delusional.

 

And did you just say you want someone you don't even know, on another team, that is generally considered "a good guy" concussed and have his career hindered because a prospect on your team isn't highly regarded? lol...

 

Chris Kreider is the comparison most people use: big, strong, skilled and a great skater. Consistency issues probably has capped his potential at a 2nd line level, but a 2nd liner is still a very good player and I would be very happy if Virtanen becomes that.

VERY few power forwards reach NHL readiness until they are 22 or 23.

 

No one said "concussed"....but something that removes that smug look would be nice.   Just as a bit of payback for the career altering hit on Daniel Sedin delivered by the cheap shot artist on Hawks blue line.

 

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5 hours ago, Burnt Gravy said:

It's great that he is lean and everything but from watching him play I didn't see his lack of conditioning holding him back. He appeared to struggle processing the game at NHL speed. If conditioning was the issue, he would have dominated in the AHL by the end of the season. He just hasn't been the same since his shoulder injury. 

Interesting your opinion is opposite to his coach from last season (who is now the Canuck coach) who said he was dominant in many key areas they had him working on by the end of the AHL season.   Based upon watching games, the shoulder didn't seem to curtail his play at all and you don't skate on your shoulder so his speed looked good too.

 

Anyway, perhaps you know more than his coach.   Will know soon as training camp is less than 10 weeks away.   

Edited by Rob_Zepp
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4 hours ago, Burnt Gravy said:

It's great that he is lean and everything but from watching him play I didn't see his lack of conditioning holding him back. He appeared to struggle processing the game at NHL speed. If conditioning was the issue, he would have dominated in the AHL by the end of the season. He just hasn't been the same since his shoulder injury. 

Conditioning was clearly an issue early on.  There were so many shifts where he goes hard for 10 seconds, then gets tired so he changes. After few of those shifts, in order to last a full shift, I often noticed him distributing his energy over 30-45 seconds shifts. In the beginning it was deceiving because it looked like Jake was just focussing on being in the right position defensively but eventually, I noticed that it was the conditioning that made him play tentative and not be able to make use of his elite level skating, power, and shots. 

 

A truly well conditioned player goes hard on offence, which makes it seem like he gets out of position but then he gets back hard defensively to break up a play. A player that is not well conditioned knows that he cannot put himself out of position or otherwise, it's a goal against, so instead of going for offensive chances, he focusses on being in the right position in case the puck is turned over. The thing is, because the poorly conditioned player does not go for the offensive chances (not being available as a passing option or retrieve the puck deep for example), it leads to higher chance of the puck getting turned over; a case of a self fulfilling prophecies.

 

I think the main reason why Jake was not able to dominate the AHL is also the conditioning. I think during the season, he improved for sure, but it's hard to get in top level shape during the regular season, the AHL is not the NCAA. If Jake has indeed improved his conditioning, I fully expect him to dominate the AHL early on, and then to get an early call up.

 

Edited by khay
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5 minutes ago, khay said:

Conditioning was clearly an issue early on.  There were so many shifts where he goes hard for 10 seconds, then gets tired so he changes. After few of those shifts, in order to last a full shift, I often noticed him distributing his energy over 30-45 seconds shifts. In the beginning it was deceiving because it looked like Jake was just focussing on being in the right position defensively but eventually, I noticed that it was the conditioning that made him play tentative and not be able to make use of his elite level skating, power, and shots. 

 

A truly well conditioned player goes hard on offence, which makes it seem like he gets out of position but then he gets back hard defensively to break up a play. A player that is not well conditioned knows that he cannot put himself out of position or otherwise, it's a goal against, so instead of going for offensive chances, he focusses on being in the right position in case the puck is turned over. The thing is, because the poorly conditioned player does not go for the offensive chances (not being available as a passing option or retrieve the puck deep for example), it leads to higher chance of the puck getting turned over; a case of a self fulfilling prophecies.

 

I think the main reason why Jake was not able to dominate the AHL is also the conditioning. I think during the season, he improved for sure, but it's hard to get in top level shape during the regular season, the AHL is not the NCAA. If Jake has indeed improved his conditioning, I fully expect him to dominate the AHL early on, and then to get an early call up.

 

Very true, I pointed this out at the time and got flamed for it.

There was also the interviews post game where he was the most winded guy I have seen, trying to put together a few words, despite usually not even having played on the last couple of shifts.

 

The real worrying thing I found was the number of fans who seemed incapable of seeing it and instead blamed the coach, or his placement or his team mates or some other BS.

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On 7/6/2017 at 5:13 PM, Setyoureyesontheprize said:

Why  would anyone be mad if Greene unlike Dejardins uses his head to make sensible coaching decisions? 

 

'Member willies lineup decicions or his obsession with players like vey or Megan who undeservedly kept getting ice time? I'memeber.

You mean Megna who put 3 times the effort into his game that Jake did, Megna who turned up in condition and played his ass off every night? You sound like another guy who didn't watch the games. Megna couldn't finish you could accuse him of that but then Benning left WD with quite a few players who couldn't finish, that is why we ended up 2nd last.

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On 7/6/2017 at 9:13 AM, Setyoureyesontheprize said:

Why  would anyone be mad if Greene unlike Dejardins uses his head to make sensible coaching decisions? 

 

'Member willies lineup decicions or his obsession with players like vey or Megan who undeservedly kept getting ice time? I'memeber.

Except the word "sensible" is going to be a matter of opinion.

 

There WILL be people here who won't like what Greene does. It will happen no matter what coach we have. We could have the best coach in the league and there would still be people complaining. ;)

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2 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

I'm not being negative, I'm just stating facts. Anybody who thinks Virtanen's progression so far has been anything but a disappointment is simply delusional.

Well the bolded's actually your opinion. "Dissapointment" is going to be a matter of perspective and forcing your opinion on others is falsely making you think others are delusional. ;)

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2 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Interesting your opinion is opposite to his coach from last season (who is now the Canuck coach) who said he was dominate in many key areas they had him working on by the end of the AHL season.   Based upon watching games, the shoulder didn't seem to curtail his play at all and you don't skate on your shoulder so his speed looked good too.

 

Anyway, perhaps you know more than his coach.   Will know soon as training camp is less than 10 weeks away.   

No need to be rude sir. 

 

His shoulder injury impeded his development IMO. When I saw him play live in his draft year he was the best player on the ice hands down. His shot and release was unbelievable. One of the best I've seen at the Jr level. D-men crumbled in his presence and he electrified the crowd. Maybe it was just a really good game that I happen to catch, IDK. Regardless, his potential was there. When we drafted him I was excited because of the impression he left with me. 

 

We all talk about how the Oilers ruined their young stars by pushing them into roles they weren't ready to assume, while the exact same thing unfolded before our eyes with Jake Virtanen. 

 

He should have  been handled as a top 6 or nothing kinda guy. I don't like how he was forced into a checking role before he even experienced the AHL. People forget that this guy was drafted 6th OA because of his elite offensive talent. His offensive ability should have been the focus, not his physicality. 

 

Unfortunately, most players don't recover from this type of downtrend. Could he become a serviceable bottom 6 guy? Sure, but that's not what we should expect from a guy who had such raw talent and the potential to be selected 6th overall. 

 

I hope he recovers and becomes that player I saw a few years ago, but I don't expect that to happen. It's a shame. 

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