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On May 20, 2016 at 0:32 PM, SilentSam said:

Hairy,.  Have you ever seen a hockey city and its fan base so hard on 19-20-21 year olds?

Kids like Hutton, Tryamkin, and Pedan (104mph slap shot) won't be fully developed until they are 25-26 yrs old,. as in the case of Z.Chara,.  Or even our own Tanev.   Anything we get now, while they come into their prime, is a bonus.

Tryamkin will be a monster for us at 25.. But the ride with him to that point is proving to be an exciting one already.

 

Like you Hairy,.  I really dislike the pessimism generated towards young growing, talented athletes here on CDC,.  It's like telling your 12 year old son that he going to amount nothing more than a garbage man in life.

If Talent is recognized,. And it gets to develop and generate,.  there is no ceiling, and no expectations with every opportunity granted.. Just the chance to succeed and exceed.

 

That was one of the coolest things about a young player who came to Vancouver,  the fact we knew nothing about Pavel Bure,. We had no expectations.  .  .  We knew very little about that young man, and he knew nothing of hockey in North America.   

There is an element to surprise,  that will bring anyone to their feet,.  and it begins without expectation.

 

Hopefully all our young talent on the Canucks get every opportunity to surprise us.

Maybe giving full opportunity, should be the only expectation.

I think some of this comes from the hockey system where decisions are sometimes being made at the peewee level about a kids future. Theres too much pressure too early on. 

 

 

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57 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

I think some of this comes from the hockey system where decisions are sometimes being made at the peewee level about a kids future. Theres too much pressure too early on. 

 

 

Totally agree with you Bob,  I think that Junior Hockey in Canada should raise its age grouping, and become semi-pro, or affiliate with Canadian Universities, sort of like the NCAA  template. Hockey in this Country would be Stronger for it,.  And at the Pro Level, the benefits of drafting a almost fully developed 22-23 year old almost guarantees a player that can instantly help an organization, rather than crossing fingers on a developing younger one.

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58 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Totally agree with you Bob,  I think that Junior Hockey in Canada should raise its age grouping, and become semi-pro, or affiliate with Canadian Universities, sort of like the NCAA  template. Hockey in this Country would be Stronger for it,.  And at the Pro Level, the benefits of drafting a almost fully developed 22-23 year old almost guarantees a player that can instantly help an organization, rather than crossing fingers on a developing younger one.

Definitely. If the CFL can do it there's no reason hockey can't. 

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1 hour ago, Fred65 said:

This is not about development it was all about the right to become a Pro ie human rights. Kenny Linesman took the NHL ( successfully ) to court and demand the right to turn Pro at 18. The court found in his favour. No one likes the 18 year old draft ( it used to be a 20 year old draft) because too often it's a spin of the wheel.

 

CAHA are and too their credit have upgraded the development of youth in the game. One of the prime problems is it has become an expensive sport. It's no shock that the Reinharts and Reillys of the world are now coming out of West Vancouver/Hollyburn for an example. Who can afford rents and mortgages  in Vcr especially and still have the thousands left over to enroll and equip their youngster year after year. Canada's strength in the past was volume. Fewer and fewer kids play the sport. Kids today don't want second hand equipment ( my kids never got new skates or equipment until their late teens ) they have to have the $200 stick or the $700 skates with Nike plastered down the side. Never mind goalies  it's a wonder Canada has produced ANY goalies when you consider the cost of their equipment.  Solve these problems and  will will be a good start.

 

It's a good start to make athletics for kids expenses tax deductible but you have to earn and pay taxes for that to be a benefit, and as usual the ones making the most benefit the most. A pool of equipment would help, such as they do for some high school sports. As us usual it becomes who wants to pay for it. The Government ( who certainly benefit through the less demand on health care) should see the healthy life style as an investment rather than a expense. Rant over :lol:

Not much to do with Tryamkin, sorry, but you are right about the high expenses (both time and money) of keeping kids in hockey; only the relatively rich can afford years of these high costs.  Another thing which I heard from a hockey coach with his own kids in hockey is that all the top prospects are coming out of hockey academies which can cost about $50,000 per year.  No wonder all the high draft picks have NHL players' last names!  On top of all the equipment costs, ice time costs, travel and accommodation costs, if your kid is really, really good, you're pretty well obligated to put them through summer programs and hockey academies.

 

(As far as the government goes, I believe social programs should not be delivered through the Income Tax Act, but rather based on individual needs, and therefore hockey training would fall a long way down a list of what governments should spend money on, like food, clothing, medical, dental, optical, education, home environment, etc.  Perhaps an organization like Hockey Canada could receive their funding from tournament advertising, etc., not the government, and dedicate funds to support talented kids who cannot afford it, I don't know.)

 

But the way it is now, rich people like NHL families, definitely have the advantage; it is not all genetics that so many high draft picks are sons of NHL-ers.

I have 2 nephews still in hockey, their parents work at average jobs and have mortgage payments and all that.  Now that the boys are getting recognition (MVP at an international tournament, for example), the parents are becoming desperate to come up with the money necessary for the boys to stay in the running; even their grandparents are getting tapped-out.  Virtually all Canadian draft prospects have come through the academies.  (Pulled that stat out of my bum.)

 

As for Tryamkin, I am a huge fan and hope he can become the next big Russian in Vancouver.  He looked good getting his feet wet this spring and his interviews show a man well-balanced, thoughtful, and personable.  With his natural size and abilities, maturity and willingness to learn, and goal-oriented behaviour, he could become a cornerstone on our defense for years to come.  This year, I think he will establish himself top 4, and after that, who knows?

 

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4 hours ago, Bob Long said:

Definitely. If the CFL can do it there's no reason hockey can't. 

Yes, .. It's what makes the NBA and NFL Draft Days much more exciting,. less emphasis on a young players potential and possibilities.. More emphasis on a players proof of talent as an adult .

sorry, we kinda went off topic,.  Tryamkin does look like a beauty though,. took charge of his own path and made some money before getting here too :)  

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5 hours ago, Goal:thecup said:

 

(As far as the government goes, I believe social programs should not be delivered through the Income Tax Act, but rather based on individual needs, and therefore hockey training would fall a long way down a list of what governments should spend money on, like food, clothing, medical, dental, optical, education, home environment, etc.  Perhaps an organization like Hockey Canada could receive their funding from tournament advertising, etc., not the government, and dedicate funds to support talented kids who cannot afford it, I don't know.)

 

 

I'm not proposing tax changes just for hockey but young atheletes in general. The Government actually has a lot to gain by encouraging a healthy life style. Medical care cost are likely the highest cost Government   pay for today. The buzz word today is preventivive medicince well that's exactl what athletic pursuit leads to. I'm not worried about kids making it to the NHL but enjoying a better and healthier life style...... mostly in later life and those costs are HUGE  :rolleyes:

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We'll find out by his conditioning at training camp whether or not we should be excited about his potential.  If he doesn't come in great shape, I doubt he'll ever get it

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1 minute ago, Fakename70 said:

If the Canucks carry 8 defenceman, hopefully it'll be 4 lefties and 4 righties. If so, kinda looks like Pedan might be odd man out. Assuming Tryamkin pans out in camp. Hope to see him paired with Biega in the bottom-4.

pecan could develop into a real nice 6th d man in 2-3 yrs. I would think JB tries really hard to move sbisa and there is a market there for sure, it just depends how much other teams want him.

Can we get a 3rd and a 4th for him - I am sure we can. 

I think JB tries to get a 2nd for him but like last year I think teams will hard ball him so bad and he walks away with a B prospect and some combination of late round picks

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6 minutes ago, Canucks Curse said:

pecan could develop into a real nice 6th d man in 2-3 yrs. I would think JB tries really hard to move sbisa and there is a market there for sure, it just depends how much other teams want him.

Can we get a 3rd and a 4th for him - I am sure we can. 

I think JB tries to get a 2nd for him but like last year I think teams will hard ball him so bad and he walks away with a B prospect and some combination of late round picks

I think Pedan could be that "real nice" bottom-8 guy right now. Unfortunately for him, though, JB seems to be in Tryamkin's corner. Neither one belong in the top-4 next season. But, Sbisa does...with the right puck-moving offensive partner who shoots from the right side, that is. I wouldn't think there'd be a huge market for him via trade anyway. 

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12 minutes ago, Canucks Curse said:

I would like to see:

 

Edler Tanev

Hutton Guddy

Hamhuis Tryamkin

 

Pedan Larsen

Beige

 

thats a good group for the top 6, far better than last year. That 3rd pair with a bit of chemistry to serve as a 2nd pair in a pinch if needed.

That's still a mediocre/undeveloped group that doesn't exactly scream "playoffs" next season. I'd breakup that 1st pairing, but, I'm thinking my following suggestion(s) might cause one of the mods to move my reply to another category. 

That said, I hope JB doesn't bother with Hamhuis. 

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38 minutes ago, Fakename70 said:

That's still a mediocre/undeveloped group that doesn't exactly scream "playoffs" next season. I'd breakup that 1st pairing, but, I'm thinking my following suggestion(s) might cause one of the mods to move my reply to another category. 

That said, I hope JB doesn't bother with Hamhuis. 

you are obviously not a golfer

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1 hour ago, mpt said:

We'll find out by his conditioning at training camp whether or not we should be excited about his potential.  If he doesn't come in great shape, I doubt he'll ever get it

Agreed.  But at least we find out right away in training camp.  If he doesn't get into shape for this preseason, it will be a problem his whole career.  Other than that, appears so far he can play at the NHL level.  But 82 games will be tough.

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Just now, BCNeil said:

Agreed.  But at least we find out right away in training camp.  If he doesn't get into shape for this preseason, it will be a problem his whole career.  Other than that, appears so far he can play at the NHL level.  But 82 games will be tough.

If you get a taste of the NHL and you find out your conditioning isn't there, and you don't start fixing that right away, you might as well just write him off as he clearly won't get it.

 

You can have all the potential in the world but sometimes you can't just get it through their skull.  

 

At least we'll find out soon if we should be getting excited about this guy or not

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4 minutes ago, mpt said:

If you get a taste of the NHL and you find out your conditioning isn't there, and you don't start fixing that right away, you might as well just write him off as he clearly won't get it.

 

You can have all the potential in the world but sometimes you can't just get it through their skull.  

 

At least we'll find out soon if we should be getting excited about this guy or not

We all remember Big Country and his love of food.  Was it second or third year camp, he came 30 pounds heavy.

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  • -Vintage Canuck- changed the title to Nikita Tryamkin | #88 | D
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