Nikita Tryamkin | D

[Ray_Cathode]

On 2018-08-09 at 1:06 PM, Rob_Zepp said:

Sam, I don't....simply reason is Guddy hasn't looked for options when he didn't get things the way he wanted them.   

 

The Tryamkin I saw in Vancouver had lots of promise.   The Tryamkin I saw this past year was not improved over that - he was involved offensively (good) but often disengaged defensively (bad) and the quality of the play was horrid.   I sincerely worry he will not be an NHL player if he is gone more than one more year from the NHL.  It is not a switch you can flip.

Who says Gudbranson never ever didn't get what he wanted?  As a high first round pick, it was pretty much handed to him on a platter, and when the Canucks gave up so much for him, they shoved an apple in his mouth and put even more garnish on the platter - the problem is that was like the proverbial Leipsic on a sow.  I think Gudbranson is still waiting to make his first pass out of our zone that doesn't come back for a face off

Edited August 13, 2018 by Ray_Cathode

[SilentSam]

On 2018-08-10 at 7:40 AM, Rob_Zepp said:

I criticize him?   Wow.   OK.    I have said repeatedly that he was an intriguing prospect with some unique skills that could be developed.   That is what you mean as criticism?   Or was it his running back to Russia for whatever reason (real or invented) - that criticism?   Or is it that the number of players who have played in NHL, returned to KHL, and come back successfully is about the same number of shutouts Marky has in his career?    That criticism?   

 

How on earth is he being trolled?   What amazes me is this kid comes in, refuses a conditioning stint and then goes on to play some decent minutes as a rookie with glimpses of something better ahead for him and he is seemingly not happy with coaching, MaryJane odor, wife demands,....whatever, and he returns to Russia and signs a three year contract.   How that suddenly turned him into a top 4 Dman in the NHL when he was, at best, an intriguing prospect for a 30ish place NHL team simply is at odds with logic.   He made all kinds of basic mistakes while with Canucks but flashed some really nice looking potential which made him, per what I have said on him forever, INTRIGUING.    

 

The longer he stays from the NHL, the less likely he will be able to grasp the Dzone responsibilities, speed and fitness levels required.    My personal opinion, having seen players try this, is if he spends more than one more season away from NHL he will be incapable of catching back up.   That is my opinion.   I have no idea how that, or any of the above, is "trolling" the player as that opinion and my observations on him as shared widely.   

 

A few of you think of him as some sort of top 4 saviour for the Canucks.   Great.   Good on you and good for him to have such loyal fans.   The only issue I see with that as there is no empirical logic behind it nor is there much precedence with other similar players doing what he has done.   When you add an attitude that was "quit" versus "tough it out", one has to wonder as even a niggle in the brain is all it takes to separate a long professional career and a long NHL professional career.

 

Jeez, if this is trolling the player the sensitivity meter on these  young kids needs a calibration.   I didn't mind being "wrong" on Virtanen three years ago as I simply had lots of reasons to think he would emerge.   He hasn't fully by any stretch but he is showing the signs for sure.   I remain confident on OJ yet most, again, say I am "wrong" there too.   I must say this is the first instance of a Canuck prospect where people say I am being too hard....as I typically find the "please be patient and you will see" mantra needed when I am pointed as out being so "wrong" on my optimism for these kids.   Tryamkin lost a large chunk of my optimism when he left Canada and if he spends even one more full year in Russia, it will be almost gone and if two it will be pretty much zilch.

 

Apologies for having an opinion.   If I wanted to troll a player, you would know.

 

 

 

6 hours ago, alfstonker said:

You should write for Disney.

Where exactly is Rob being unfairly harsh? In your eye (who knows what your eye is worth and who knows if it has better judgement than Rob's) he was one of the top four D's on the Canucks.

 

Let's see now Tanev? no. Edler? no. Stecher doubtful, given that Stech didn't have Tryamkin's 13 games the previous year and yet still scored 24 points to Tryamkin's 9 it's debatable.

 

Stech also had a better Corsi figures, almost 3x the Tk and the same Gv at 33. Stech also had 307 shots to Tryamkin's 162 and a better DPS. All this while Stech was competing for an average of 3+ more mins a night.

 

Hutton? maybe but not clear cut. Hutton also had a higher Corsi and played almost 3.1/2 more mins per night, almost 3x more Tk but 17more Gv, with 130 shots to Tryamkin's 65 Tryamkin had a better +/- of -7 to Hutton's -22.

 

Sbisa definitely not. Sbisa had a +/- of -1 despite playing the full 82 games and was second only to Tanev among Ds who played 29 fewer games. Both Sbisa and Stech also had higher PS figures and Sbisa had the highest DPS of all Ds. In all Sbisa's figures were better all round than Tryamkin's

 

Beiga also had higher Corsi figures and only half the Gv that Tryamkin had with the same Tk. Beiga had a higher PDO but lower DPS. He had 28 fewer shots while playing 30 fewer games. Hits is also an interesting stat, Biega while playing 30 fewer games had 48 fewer hits but this translated to Biega with 33 more hits at equal games played while Biega actually played an average of 4 mins less.

 

This leaves us with Larsen and Gudbranson both of whom had seasons to forget. Larsen due to general poor play and let's just put Gudy's down to injury, which would be fair.

So I don't agree that Tryamkin was demonstrably the 4th best D and I also think these stats showed that he was getting pretty fair time on ice. As Rob says the big guy was intriguing but far from the finished article. He made great strides through the season and there is no doubt there was the potential to become 3rd or 4th D but he wasn't there yet. I wonder if this discussion would be even taking place if we take away Tryamkins fights and skirmishes.

 

Oh the irony.

 

Because in all this debate what I find interesting is the hypocrisy of those who feel it is their place to attempt to browbeat the posters who have not fully engorged the Tryamkin kool-aid.

These people constantly whine about the coaches showing various videos (including HHOF, Norris, Hart and Kaminsky Trophy winner, Twice Olympic Gold medalist and Stanley Cup winner Chris Pronger) of big defenders who generally achieved all that there was in the game by utilising to the full their physical attributes.

 

What a silly thing to do - right? The point as I understand, the coaches were trying to get over in these videos was they all showed big Ds who achieved success by CONSISTENTLY using their large frames to intimidate the opposition - not to fight, not to cheap shot but to "bully" and bully consistently. This has two benefits, firstly it inspires team mates to copy and become "braver" and secondly it puts forwards off their game. You don't get a rep "for occasionally being physical" you get it for being a beast every night.

 

Yet what do we see from these hypocrites, they cream themselves over videos of Tryamkin knocking people on their ass and a few of him fighting - not many mind, given he played 66 games but enough for the hypocrites to salivate over while whining that Tryamkin shouldn't have to do these sorts of things.

Whether some on here have the savvy to understand it or not, these coaches wanted what was best for Tryamkin, they wanted to improve his game (and they did, markedly) they wanted to demonstrate the importance of top fitness and using your god given attributes to further your career and realise your potential.

 

One more thing, we hear a lot about how the management could have done more, maybe so, none of us know what they did for him. However what they did do for him was get him an interpreter and while Tryamkin apparently didn't speak the language very well (team mates said he understood a lot more than he let on) he was not struck dumb and he could have made his "complaints/needs" known to the management through the interpreter or even his agent. What did his agent do to help Tryamkin's dilemma, not much it appears. You might have thought being a Russian himself he might have at least helped to fix him up with a better placed apartment and some Russian speaking friends etc for the big bucks he was making.

 

This is who the two of you should question, and yes, criticize.  

The game has taken two Giant steps for mankind over his, and obviously, your heads.   

No one gets fired without ethical reason, whether it be one incident, or a multitude.

Direct your attention to Desjardins, and you’ll find more legitimate faults, than the ones you keep dreaming up on Tryamkin.

 

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

 

This is who the two of you should question, and yes, criticize.  

The game has taken two Giant steps for mankind over his, and obviously, your heads.   

No one gets fired without ethical reason, whether it be one incident, or a multitude.

Direct your attention to Desjardins, and you’ll find more legitimate faults, than the ones you keep dreaming up on Tryamkin.

 

https://nationalpost.com/sports/olympics/canadian-coach-desjardins-leaves-himself-open-for-second-guess

 

some say Willie D’s poor coaching cost us at the Olympics too.  Willie seems like a really nice guy, but he’s clearly a poor coach with certain players.

[SilentSam]

Just now, Alflives said:

https://nationalpost.com/sports/olympics/canadian-coach-desjardins-leaves-himself-open-for-second-guess

 

some say Willie D’s poor coaching cost us at the Olympics too.  Willie seems like a really nice guy, but he’s clearly a poor coach with certain players.

The man was a snowball headed for hell with us Alf. .  

[73 Percent]

16 minutes ago, Alflives said:

https://nationalpost.com/sports/olympics/canadian-coach-desjardins-leaves-himself-open-for-second-guess

 

some say Willie D’s poor coaching cost us at the Olympics too.  Willie seems like a really nice guy, but he’s clearly a poor coach with certain players.

Sure it wasn't the fact that Derek roy was our best player?

 

Use your brain man.

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

Sure it wasn't the fact that Derek roy was our best player?

 

Use your brain man.

We lost to friggin’ Germany!  All the top ranked teams were without their best players.

My brain is fine; it’s my legs that are wrecked. 

[73 Percent]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We lost to friggin’ Germany!  All the top ranked teams were without their best players.

My brain is fine; it’s my legs that are wrecked. 

Compare us to the gold medal team.

 

Do it. I dare you.

[SilentSam]

11 minutes ago, Alflives said:

https://nationalpost.com/sports/olympics/canadian-coach-desjardins-leaves-himself-open-for-second-guess

 

some say Willie D’s poor coaching cost us at the Olympics too.  Willie seems like a really nice guy, but he’s clearly a poor coach with certain players.

 

8 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

The man was a snowball headed for hell with us Alf. .  

...  Alf, I can say this from 2 personal experiences..   My best bud in the world lost his Father to Alzheimer’s about 6 years ago, but after the fact, we discussed and realized the early tell tale signs of the on-set that were there 5 years previous to the loss.

.. I lost my Father 2 years ago,    Parkinson’s.     Dad was, and would say in his “right” mind,  he, himself, was a snow ball headed for hell 3 years previous to the loss, and showed tell tale signs 5 years previous to the slide.

Im NOT saying Desjardins HAS, nor do I wish anything of the type of affliction on anybody.... but the deployment, and decision making, or rather lack of.... and the rigidity that he stuck to, not looking to be flexible, or stray from the norm.      I think there is something deeper going on.

2 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

Sure it wasn't the fact that Derek roy was our best player?

 

Use your brain man.

World Tournament, and off your bench you choose Maxime Laperierre as your first shooter in a shoot out?

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, 73 Percent said:

Compare us to the gold medal team.

 

Do it. I dare you.

Wasn’t Tryamkin the last cut from that team?  Willie D was bad news for Tryamkin.  And some think Willie D was bad news for our Olympic team.  Read the article I posted the link to, and you will see it’s not just me who believes this.

[73 Percent]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Wasn’t Tryamkin the last cut from that team?  Willie D was bad news for Tryamkin.  And some think Willie D was bad news for our Olympic team.  Read the article I posted the link to, and you will see it’s not just me who believes this.

I'm not doubting there are other people like you out there man. It doesn't mean I agree with them.

[SilentSam]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Wasn’t Tryamkin the last cut from that team?  Willie D was bad news for Tryamkin.  And some think Willie D was bad news for our Olympic team.  Read the article I posted the link to, and you will see it’s not just me who believes this.

Happy to see somebody at the National level wrote about what some of us saw here Alf.  Clearly a case of “The Emporer’s New Clothes”.

[Alflives]

Just now, SilentSam said:

Happy to see somebody at the National level wrote about what some of us saw here Alf.  Clearly a case of “The Emporer’s New Clothes”.

There is a saying in sports, that’s been around forever: “Players Win Games and Coaches Lose Them”.  I think you pointed out the reasons why Willie D was a coach who lost games through his poor decisions and mishandling of certain players.  

 

https://myfootballmentor.com/players-win-games-and-coaches-lose-them/

[alfstonker]

16 hours ago, SilentSam said:

 

This is who the two of you should question, and yes, criticize.  

The game has taken two Giant steps for mankind over his, and obviously, your heads.   

No one gets fired without ethical reason, whether it be one incident, or a multitude.

Direct your attention to Desjardins, and you’ll find more legitimate faults, than the ones you keep dreaming up on Tryamkin.

 

BS

That is just your hang up. A bit sad really. Tryamkin has only himself to thank for his running back home.

Edited August 13, 2018 by alfstonker

[alfstonker]

49 minutes ago, Alflives said:

https://nationalpost.com/sports/olympics/canadian-coach-desjardins-leaves-himself-open-for-second-guess

 

some say Willie D’s poor coaching cost us at the Olympics too.  Willie seems like a really nice guy, but he’s clearly a poor coach with certain players.

Some say????

Who says? Nobody worth a damn. Did you see what that team was made up from? All the same guys who get laughed at because they can only play in the KHL. He has won the Calder Cup and took the Canucks to the playoffs in his first season. He was fired because JB shafted him with poor replacements.

 

I suppose it's better for the Tryamkin disciples to deflect onto WD

[alfstonker]

30 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We lost to friggin’ Germany!  All the top ranked teams were without their best players.

My brain is fine; it’s my legs that are wrecked. 

Your brain has frequent days off and this has been one of them. Are you disrespecting Germany now?

 

"

Perhaps no team in sports is as dependent upon who happens to be their coach as Germany's men's ice hockey team. 

Germany at their best have proved themselves capable of giving the true hockey nations like Canada or Russia serious tests in major tournaments.

One needs only to think back to the 2010 World Championship on home soil, when Germany, under then-coach Uwe Krupp twice gave the Russians a scare, losing both matches, including the semifinal, by a single goal. One year later in Bratislava they went one better, beating Russia in the preliminary round 2-0. 

[alfstonker]

33 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

 

...  Alf, I can say this from 2 personal experiences..   My best bud in the world lost his Father to Alzheimer’s about 6 years ago, but after the fact, we discussed and realized the early tell tale signs of the on-set that were there 5 years previous to the loss.

.. I lost my Father 2 years ago,    Parkinson’s.     Dad was, and would say in his “right” mind,  he, himself, was a snow ball headed for hell 3 years previous to the loss, and showed tell tale signs 5 years previous to the slide.

Im NOT saying Desjardins HAS, nor do I wish anything of the type of affliction on anybody.... but the deployment, and decision making, or rather lack of.... and the rigidity that he stuck to, not looking to be flexible, or stray from the norm.      I think there is something deeper going on.

World Tournament, and off your bench you choose Maxime Laperierre as your first shooter in a shoot out?

You are one sick b-----d. To infer something like that against a coach who has won a Calder Cup AND got to the playoffs with a pretty average team ALL JUST TO SATISFY YOUR OBSESSION WITH TRYAMKIN IS WORTHY OF A BAN.

 

Once more when some posters show a bit more realism about Tryamkin instead of the one -eyed fascination you are afflicted with, you deflect onto a decent coach. Let me remind you once more, if WD was that bad how was his points total the year he was fired only 4 behind Green?

Edited August 12, 2018 by alfstonker

[SilentSam]

5 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

You are one sick b-----d. To infer something like that against a coach who has won a Calder Cup AND got to the playoffs with a pretty average team ALL JUST TO SATISFY YOUR OBSESSION WITH TRYAMKIN IS WORTHY OF A BAN.

Calder Cup, one play off year with a TEAM left over from 2011 that carried him.. All past tense AlfStonker..  but it’s his 2 year whitey tightly skid mark,  lack of deployment and or mis-handling that got him fired that still lingers into this thread on Big Nik.

He could have handled Nik better. But, what ever, Nik will probably return, stronger, faster, more developed.. Desjardins never will.

 

I think your obsession is with me, your the type that uses your ego as a shield, likes to poke a Bear, and call the Conservation Officer to come in and shoot it.

The article that @Alflives posted, (https://nationalpost.com/sports/olympics/canadian-coach-desjardins-leaves-himself-open-for-second-guess) mentioned that even the players were left scratching their heads with some of WD’S moves.

Just Glad that some one would come out and question that, and Hockey Canada for that matter.

 

 

[SilentSam]

27 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

You are one sick b-----d. To infer something like that against a coach who has won a Calder Cup AND got to the playoffs with a pretty average team ALL JUST TO SATISFY YOUR OBSESSION WITH TRYAMKIN IS WORTHY OF A BAN.

 

Once more when some posters show a bit more realism about Tryamkin instead of the one -eyed fascination you are afflicted with, you deflect onto a decent coach. Let me remind you once more, if WD was that bad how was his points total the year he was fired only 4 behind Green?

A smarter man might want to delete some of that.  Your embarrassing yourself.

[ilduce39]

There’s no way you can pin the bulk of Tryamkin’s departure on WD.  The guy left after WD was fired. 

 

Willie’s no Scottie Bowman but he was handed mission impossible here in Van and kept the team playing hard despite zero prime talent.  His Olympic stint was a classic no-win scenario as well since Canadian has-beens are somehow believed to be better-than. Maybe he needs a better agent. His biggest mistake was picking Van over Pitt.

 

That article hinges on two things: a bad press conference and a weird pick in the shootout.  WD’s Canada beat the Czechs for the bronze in the rematch, too.  Losing to Germany stinks but realistically, was Canada expected to win that thing? (Just like, realistically, it’s pretty amazing Willie made the playoffs at all after the stinker of a season Torts had.). The guy won a bronze medal with plugs when teams like Czechs, Sweden and Finland went home empty handed.  I’m not sure how that’s considered a failure.

[alfstonker]

17 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

A smarter man might want to delete some of that.  Your embarrassing yourself.

You wish.