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6 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I think we got Bo by accident. Gillis couldn't move Luongo so he shocked the NHL and moved Schneider instead. I don't think that was the plan at all from the beginning. 

That story arc took place over about a full season, it wasn’t like Gillis woke up the day of the draft and started shooting from the hip.

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1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I'm tired of hearing the revisionist history on MG and Gillman. They pushed the chips all in and burned the future for a cup run. Thats fine, it nearly worked, but lets not pretend these guys had any kind of vision for the future, they didn't. We're still paying for it 8 years later. 

Worst drafting record of any team during his tenure put a giant magnifying lense on his legacy as well.


Not only were the cupboards bare, you could see every single tiny crumb left behind.

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51 minutes ago, stawns said:

I can understand why they did it, but that doesn't mean I think it was smart or forward thinking.

Of course it wasn't forward thinking, imo it should have been short terming.

Load up and go for it, the problem is they did not win.

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38 minutes ago, xereau said:

Worst drafting record of any team during his tenure put a giant magnifying lense on his legacy as well.


Not only were the cupboards bare, you could see every single tiny crumb left behind.

Might be too quick to judge that statement just yet if you compare apples to apples

One might be able to make the same argument as to right now, Until our late round picks (like we were only getting back at the time winning etc) pan out in the NHL like late round picks or unsigned players  like  Burrows, Edler, Kesler, Tanev, Hansen, Rypien, etc , that make great contributions to the team

 

Had you made this statement at the time, you would have been called out a troll for not supporting the team

So why is it ok to put down past canuck teams then?

Is being a true Canuck fan, Only if you support the current team (and then slag later)?

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2 hours ago, ba;;isticsports said:

Might be too quick to judge that statement just yet if you compare apples to apples

One might be able to make the same argument as to right now, Until our late round picks (like we were only getting back at the time winning etc) pan out in the NHL like late round picks or unsigned players  like  Burrows, Edler, Kesler, Tanev, Hansen, Rypien, etc , that make great contributions to the team

 

Had you made this statement at the time, you would have been called out a troll for not supporting the team

So why is it ok to put down past canuck teams then?

Is being a true Canuck fan, Only if you support the current team (and then slag later)?

It's not slagging the team stating facts. Gillis absolutely gutted the team through deadline deals. 

 

He was the league trendsetter for a few years there, and it cost the team dearly for going on 9 years now.

 

What he did, was simply not worth it.

 

He locked up the old core for way too long in a cap era, which badly handcuffed Benning for several seasons.

 

There were some good depth with undrafted guys, and deep picks as you mentioned.

 

How about good pickups that went to waste? LaPierre, gone. Torres, gone. And their picks with them.

 

Gritty guys that could have helped keep the window open a little longer, turfed.

 

Willie Mitchell too, gone. If we had him in the 2011 playoffs, we might have won.

 

I didn't like the selling the farm thing at the time, and I still don't.  And I was a fan of the team then and now too.

 

I wasn't a fan of Gillis' new age country club model too, which many teams tried, and have since ditched, including the Canucks.

 

Sleep coaches and fluffy bunny crying room sessions aside, he was one of the first to key in on advanced analytics.

 

Its come to be a massive part of the league since.

 

Benning's combined that, with some good scouts, and setting trends in building from the US college and EU elite leagues.

 

Nothing beats good old fashioned boots on the ground, and eyes on the players, and getting to know the players.

 

I think Gillis delegated too much power to the algorithms, and the internal development systems from his tenure speak for themselves.

 

It was a strategy, that didn't pay off. And to point it out doesn't mean I am putting down the team, or Gillis to say so.

 

Edited by xereau
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3 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I'm tired of hearing the revisionist history on MG and Gillman. They pushed the chips all in and burned the future for a cup run. Thats fine, it nearly worked, but lets not pretend these guys had any kind of vision for the future, they didn't. We're still paying for it 8 years later. 

The sad thing is, I think they could have still put that team together without the resulting carnage if they were a little more forward thinking.  They made it way more complicated than it needed to be, imo.

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16 minutes ago, stawns said:

The sad thing is, I think they could have still put that team together without the resulting carnage if they were a little more forward thinking.  They made it way more complicated than it needed to be, imo.

I remember Gillis as a guest on 1040 about a week before he got fired.  He was asked if Torts was coming back, and his answer was he didn’t know if he (himself) was coming back.  There were the rumours about a rift between Gillis wanting to rebuild and Aquiline wanting to continue with the Sedin core group.  Then JB came in a with Willie D coaching the team had a renaissance season.  After that season though, then the Gillis contracts came back to haunt JB’s efforts for sure.  I just wonder what the team would look like now if Gillis was supported by Aquilini to rebuild?  Although, considering Gillis’ draft record, likely it would be ugly. 

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1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I remember Gillis as a guest on 1040 about a week before he got fired.  He was asked if Torts was coming back, and his answer was he didn’t know if he (himself) was coming back.  There were the rumours about a rift between Gillis wanting to rebuild and Aquiline wanting to continue with the Sedin core group.  Then JB came in a with Willie D coaching the team had a renaissance season.  After that season though, then the Gillis contracts came back to haunt JB’s efforts for sure.  I just wonder what the team would look like now if Gillis was supported by Aquilini to rebuild?  Although, considering Gillis’ draft record, likely it would be ugly. 

Yeah, all the bad Gillis did with contracts, then JB went and signed an aging vet to $6M per year for 6 years...with modified NTC. It's now bitting the club in the nuts... I think though that JB has learned from past mistakes...I think he has....we'll see with the upcoming contract negotiations and how he manages those. 

 

...most fans thought LE would be good for the first 3 years, then he would start to decline...well, those first 3 years are in the rear view mirror and they're still wanting and waiting for those good years to come...but most can see the writing on the wall that he is well on his way to decline further. Simply a bad signing and contract by JB.

 

Tryamkin, however, was a good draft pick and more effort may be needed to encourage him to come back and play.

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5 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Yea I’m sure he was a smart guy but the job can be done by many people. I think his real attribute was his relationships with other GMs and agents. He was able to negotiate better than Gillis who was a little more rough around the edges. They were a good balance.

 

Also you can manage the cap all you want but if GM hands out NTC it kind of limits what a capologist can do.

Are we blaming Gillis and only Gillis for the NTCs now? Implying Gilman was against them? Lol.

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Just now, N7Nucks said:

Are we blaming Gillis and only Gillis for the NTCs now? Implying Gilman was against them? Lol.

Where did I say that?

 

Gillis would have had the final say on all deals though. He constantly spoke about giving out a NTC as a way to get players to take less. So at the end of the day he is responsible for those contracts. It was his job on the line after all.

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1 minute ago, DeNiro said:

Where did I say that?

 

Gillis would have had the final say on all deals though. He constantly spoke about giving out a NTC as a way to get players to take less. So at the end of the day he is responsible for those contracts. It was his job on the line after all.

I boldened the part where you implied it. And the fact you are going at Gillis now further implies it. He is the figure head. I don't recall ever hearing people giving a crap what Gilman had to say. He's never at any of the end of season pressers etc. As the "capologist" I'd imagine he had a say on the NTCs. Otherwise he is a terrible "capologist". Sounds like you are just trying to absolve him of any blame by further crapping on Gillis. 

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4 hours ago, nzan said:

That story arc took place over about a full season, it wasn’t like Gillis woke up the day of the draft and started shooting from the hip.

it happened because Lu was mad about his usage in the playoffs. It occurred over the course of a few weeks. It was totally off the cuff. 

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8 hours ago, stawns said:

I would argue that Gilman totally screwed this organization, along with MG with the deals they gave out to that team.  Seems to me like he never once considered the long term implications of his "genius".

Gillis knew he wouldn't be around to deal with the NTCs. All GMs do it. What's the average life span of a GM, 3 or 4 years? It sucked that Benning had to start out with those NTCs but that's just the name of the game these days. Benning's replacement will be dealing with the same thing.

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25 minutes ago, VIC_CITY said:

Gillis knew he wouldn't be around to deal with the NTCs. All GMs do it. What's the average life span of a GM, 3 or 4 years? It sucked that Benning had to start out with those NTCs but that's just the name of the game these days. Benning's replacement will be dealing with the same thing.

A lot do, I absolutely agree.  Good GM'S don't, imo.

 

Again, I loved that team and can understand why they went that direction......however, it was obvious what was coming after it crashed.

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16 minutes ago, stawns said:

A lot do, I absolutely agree.  Good GM'S don't, imo.

 

Again, I loved that team and can understand why they went that direction......however, it was obvious what was coming after it crashed.

It's a year old, but I found a list of all NTC and NMC across the league. Some teams definitely doing it more than others. A year ago there were 2 or 3 teams who hardly had any. But it was pretty wide spread across the league.

 

https://www.thefourthperiod.com/no-trade-clauses

 

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Interesting Nathan Mackinnon doesn't have a no trade or no movement clause and the same can be said for Bo.  Looking thru that list of no trade/move contracts, it seems like a lot of GMs were stretched for some marginal players.  

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On 9/1/2019 at 7:49 PM, Bell said:

Interesting Nathan Mackinnon doesn't have a no trade or no movement clause and the same can be said for Bo.  Looking thru that list of no trade/move contracts, it seems like a lot of GMs were stretchedfor some marginal players.  

I think NTC/NMC are UFA only

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