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1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I went through Cap Friendly and I don't see any scenario where we can keep Tanev at $5-6 million for upwards of 5 years. 

Why would the Canucks need to pay Tanev 5-6 million a year for 5 years???  That makes no sense.

 

Tanev currently makes 4.45 million per year and he is now older then when he signed that last contract. He also does not provide much offence, however he is a good defensive D man.  Edler just got a two year contact at 6 million per.

 

So common sense dictates Tanev would probably get a two year contract for about 4.5 million per.  Not some 6 million contract for 5 years.

 

PS: I could not care less about the Canucks cap. That is for a highly paid GM to figure out. And right now JB has no one anywhere close to being able to replace Tanev. My bet is JB signs Tanev for 2 years at 4.5 mill. He can figure out the cap....I won't lose sleep over it.

 

 

Edited by Kanukfanatic
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I'm not sure that Tanev is still here by the trade deadline. A couple of factors will likely come into play at that time. 1) Is the team still in the playoff hunt or at least very close? 2) Does JB have a solid read on whether Tryamkin is likely to sign and join the team for a playoff push?

 

 If the answer to #1 is yes, they may hold on to him and try to sign him to some kind of term before the end of the season. If the answer to #2 is that Tryamkin has indicated through his agent  that he intends to sign and play for the Canucks then JB may move Tanev before the deadline.

 

Regardless of which way the Tanev / Tryamkin scenario plays out; I think that Stetcher might be moved before the TDL if they are out of the playoff picture in favor of bringing up Brogan Rafferty.

Not sure how his overall game will translate to the NHL but if he can continue to improve his defensive game, he could give the Canucks a lot of different options at both 5 on 5 and on the PP

 

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2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I think collectively Tryamkin, Brisebois and Rafferty can replace both Tanev and Stecher.  We don't have the cap space to keep Tanev and Stecher, which would cost us upwards of $9 million next year.  Rafferty at $700k is already better than Stecher offensively, he just needs to work on his defensive game.  We also have the option to re-sign Fatenberg, so Rafferty could in essence be our 7th D and you play Benn on the right side with Fatenberg next year.  Rafferty comes in and out of the lineup to provide offence.  That can make up for losing Tanev.  And it would be a lot cheaper to re-sign Fatenberg than Tanev.  As a matter of fact, Fatenberg, Tryamkin, Rafferty and Brisbois combined would be less of a cap hit than keeping Tanev.

 

At the end of the day if we can turn Demko and Stecher + into a top 6 forward and integrate our younger D into the lineup to replace Tanev and Stecher and eventually Edler and Benn then that is the long term plan for Benning and the right one for future success as it would eliminate any cap issues and it would get all our young prospects into the lineup.

 

I understand that we should be integrating our young defenseman into the the team, but none of our young defensemen realistically project to be more than 3rd pairing guys. Rafferty can take out Stetcher and provide a different element, but the overall change likely wouldn't be too noticeable. There's a lot of hope that Tryamkin can effectively eat Tanev's minutes, but it's just blind hope at this point. 

 

Any scenario where we let Tanev walk would weaken our team considerably. I would normally be fine with that, but next season we might be giving up an unprotected 1st rounder. It's a tough scenario that really didn't need to happen. 

 

Can you show me a hypothetical defense core for next year that you believe is as good as our current one?

 

Edler - Myers 

Hughes - Tanev

Benn - Stetcher

Fantenberg

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49 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said:

Why would the Canucks need to pay Tanev 5-6 million a year for 5 years???  That makes no sense.

 

Tanev currently makes 4.45 million per year and he is now older then when he signed that last contract. He also does not provide much offence, however he is a good defensive D man.  Edler just got a two year contact at 6 million per.

 

So common sense dictates Tanev would probably get a two year contract for about 4.5 million per.  Not some 6 million contract for 5 years.

 

PS: I could not care less about the Canucks cap. That is for a highly paid GM to figure out. And right now JB has no one anywhere close to being able to replace Tanev. My bet is JB signs Tanev for 2 years at 4.5 mill. He can figure out the cap....I won't lose sleep over it.

 

 

Unfortunately the Canucks don’t control what Tanev will get as he is a UFA.  He’s 4 years younger than Edler so the term he gets will certainly be more than 2 years.  I can see a team offering him similar numbers to what Myers got.  I could be wrong but that is what I see and the Canucks won’t play ball at those numbers.  

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16 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

I understand that we should be integrating our young defenseman into the the team, but none of our young defensemen realistically project to be more than 3rd pairing guys. Rafferty can take out Stetcher and provide a different element, but the overall change likely wouldn't be too noticeable. There's a lot of hope that Tryamkin can effectively eat Tanev's minutes, but it's just blind hope at this point. 

 

Any scenario where we let Tanev walk would weaken our team considerably. I would normally be fine with that, but next season we might be giving up an unprotected 1st rounder. It's a tough scenario that really didn't need to happen. 

 

Can you show me a hypothetical defense core for next year that you believe is as good as our current one?

 

Edler - Myers 

Hughes - Tanev

Benn - Stetcher

Fantenberg

Already did that

 

Edler - Myers

Hughes - Tryamkin

Benn - Rafferty

Fantenberg

 

Tryamkin should be a bit cheaper than Tanev to sign and probably a heck of a lot more durable, especially come playoff time

Rafferty would be a much cheaper option than Stetcher and with cap space  next year likely to be a very real concern; I think this move is likely going to happen but does Stetcher, who has arbitration rights, get moved before the TDL or in the off season. Either way I see Rafferty on this team next season if not before, unless he has a monumental setback in the second half of Utica's season. As a side note: He is currently on pace for a 70 point season as a freshman D man.

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30 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

I understand that we should be integrating our young defenseman into the the team, but none of our young defensemen realistically project to be more than 3rd pairing guys. Rafferty can take out Stetcher and provide a different element, but the overall change likely wouldn't be too noticeable. There's a lot of hope that Tryamkin can effectively eat Tanev's minutes, but it's just blind hope at this point. 

 

Any scenario where we let Tanev walk would weaken our team considerably. I would normally be fine with that, but next season we might be giving up an unprotected 1st rounder. It's a tough scenario that really didn't need to happen. 

 

Can you show me a hypothetical defense core for next year that you believe is as good as our current one?

 

Edler - Myers 

Hughes - Tanev

Benn - Stetcher

Fantenberg

Edler       Myers

Hughes   Tryamkin

Benn       Rafferty 

Fatenberg 

 

I don’t know whether that would be better than what we have now but it would certainly be cheaper and allow us to get a top 6 forward to play with BO.

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39 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Unfortunately the Canucks don’t control what Tanev will get as he is a UFA.  He’s 4 years younger than Edler so the term he gets will certainly be more than 2 years.  I can see a team offering him similar numbers to what Myers got.  I could be wrong but that is what I see and the Canucks won’t play ball at those numbers.  

Pure speculation.

 

Posters said the same about Edler....that he would get 5 or 6 years at 6-7 million per. That didn't happen.

 

I will let the pros get it done.

 

Tanev is head and shoulders better than tryamkin. We already know that.

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20 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said:

Pure speculation.

 

Posters said the same about Edler....that he would get 5 or 6 years at 6-7 million per. That didn't happen.

 

I will let the pros get it done.

 

Tanev is head and shoulders better than tryamkin. We already know that.

Edler is almost 4 years older than Tanev.  Completely different scenario.  Anton Stralman who was 32 last summer got a 3 year $5.5 million deal from Florida after only playing 47 games last year.  Tanev is better than Stralman.  And he’s only 30. You are kidding yourself if you think Tanev will only get a 2 year deal at the same pay he is getting now next summer as a UFA.

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13 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Edler is almost 4 years older than Tanev.  Completely different scenario.  Anton Stralman who was 32 last summer got a 3 year $5.5 million deal from Florida after only playing 47 games last year.  Tanev is better than Stralman.  And he’s only 30. You are kidding yourself if you think Tanev will only get a 2 year deal at the same pay he is getting now next summer as a UFA.

yeah...we shall see

 

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1 hour ago, Kootenay Gold said:

Already did that

 

Edler - Myers

Hughes - Tryamkin

Benn - Rafferty

Fantenberg

 

Tryamkin should be a bit cheaper than Tanev to sign and probably a heck of a lot more durable, especially come playoff time

Rafferty would be a much cheaper option than Stetcher and with cap space  next year likely to be a very real concern; I think this move is likely going to happen but does Stetcher, who has arbitration rights, get moved before the TDL or in the off season. Either way I see Rafferty on this team next season if not before, unless he has a monumental setback in the second half of Utica's season. As a side note: He is currently on pace for a 70 point season as a freshman D man.

 

57 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Edler       Myers

Hughes   Tryamkin

Benn       Rafferty 

Fatenberg 

 

I don’t know whether that would be better than what we have now but it would certainly be cheaper and allow us to get a top 6 forward to play with BO.

 

Those defense cores are definitely downgrades. Rafferty can likely step into Stetcher's spot well, but Tryamkin can't step into Tanev's effectively. Because Tanev is such a big part of our current defense core, that leads to a considerably weaker defense. I think that is generally agreed upon. 

 

However, there could be significant consequences for a weaker defense core next year. We could potentially be giving up our 1st round pick next year. It's a situation that management put on themselves that we should now be mindful of. With that in mind, would you be comfortable with that defense for next year, especially considering how our defense this year is stronger and we're only on the playoff bubble?

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If Tryamkin came back the best D-core next year would be.

 

Edler-Myers

Hughes Tanev

Tryamkin-Rafferty

Benn

 

The following year with Edler and Benn gone would be.

 

Hughes-Tanev

Tryamkin-Myers

Juolevi-Rafferty

Brisebois

 

I really don't get how people think some of these young defenseman can just come in and make up for the loss of Tanev and Edler moving forward when they'd be rookies, maybe sophomores(if they get some time this year) or haven't played in the NHL in a long time in Tryamkin's case. Way too much faith in the young guys too early. Defenseman have a harder adjusting period unless you're someone like Makar or Hughes who are used in more of a offensive role and are elite that way.

 

Cap won't be a problem moving forward. We could make moves. Sutter/Pearson/Benn/Baer will be on expiring years next year and I see a market for a few of them. Maybe Eriksson retires?

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11 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I think collectively Tryamkin, Brisebois and Rafferty can replace both Tanev and Stecher.  We don't have the cap space to keep Tanev and Stecher, which would cost us upwards of $9 million next year.  Rafferty at $700k is already better than Stecher offensively, he just needs to work on his defensive game.  We also have the option to re-sign Fatenberg, so Rafferty could in essence be our 7th D and you play Benn on the right side with Fatenberg next year.  Rafferty comes in and out of the lineup to provide offence.  That can make up for losing Tanev.  And it would be a lot cheaper to re-sign Fatenberg than Tanev.  As a matter of fact, Fatenberg, Tryamkin, Rafferty and Brisbois combined would be less of a cap hit than keeping Tanev.

 

At the end of the day if we can turn Demko and Stecher + into a top 6 forward and integrate our younger D into the lineup to replace Tanev and Stecher and eventually Edler and Benn then that is the long term plan for Benning and the right one for future success as it would eliminate any cap issues and it would get all our young prospects into the lineup.

The unknown is whether Tryamkin can be a 2RD. Do you gamble on that? Many of your points are bang on. Fantenberg has surprised me as he as played 2LD. Since my timeline is 3 years out and because of CAP issues I think Benning has to gamble. Fans are talking about letting Tanev and Stecher walk as UFA's. If they are not in the plans you have to move them if possible. There should be a market for both.

 

If you move Demko who backs up Markstrom? Dipietro needs more time in Utica. Does Demko and Stecher get you a top 6 player which works with a 3 year timeline? 

 

Another aspect of all these factors is the overall attractiveness of UFA's signing in Vancouver. Petey and Hughes could have a comparable attraction like McDavid has in Edmonton. Van is on the rise and many players will want to jump on the bandwagon. 

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9 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said:

Pure speculation.

 

Posters said the same about Edler....that he would get 5 or 6 years at 6-7 million per. That didn't happen.

 

I will let the pros get it done.

 

Tanev is head and shoulders better than tryamkin. We already know that.

I agree. Tanev when healthy is a top three defenceman on almost any team. For me personally, I would give up Tanev to sign Tryamkin (only on 5 year deal minimum). Keep in mind I would rather keep both of them and have Stecher walk.

 

Maybe it’s me over valuing Tryamkin but I’m Okay with that.

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2 hours ago, Boudrias said:

The unknown is whether Tryamkin can be a 2RD. Do you gamble on that? Many of your points are bang on. Fantenberg has surprised me as he as played 2LD. Since my timeline is 3 years out and because of CAP issues I think Benning has to gamble. Fans are talking about letting Tanev and Stecher walk as UFA's. If they are not in the plans you have to move them if possible. There should be a market for both.

 

If you move Demko who backs up Markstrom? Dipietro needs more time in Utica. Does Demko and Stecher get you a top 6 player which works with a 3 year timeline? 

 

Another aspect of all these factors is the overall attractiveness of UFA's signing in Vancouver. Petey and Hughes could have a comparable attraction like McDavid has in Edmonton. Van is on the rise and many players will want to jump on the bandwagon. 

It's a gamble with Tryamkin but you have to take the gamble at this point.  If you keep Tanev around long term it disrupts the cap and it also takes a spot away from a young prospect.  We had this issue last year with Edler, luckily he only signed for 2 years and we ended up needing him as Juolevi went down with another injury.  I don't think Tanev is going to re-sign for only 2 years, that is the main problem as he is only 30 years old and this will most likely be his last contract, so he will go for the big payday.  If Tryamkin comes back and Juolevi doesn't get injured again and Brisebois and Rafferty keep improving then we are in better shape next year to lose a veteran then we would have been this year.  Plus Fatenberg looks like a player you can keep around and move up and down the lineup so re-signing him will be a lot cheaper and give us even more depth for next year.

 

In terms of a backup for Marky, if you trade Demko most likely the other team will want to send a goalie the other way so it would have to be a package deal where we get a goalie in return in the deal who can be a stopgap until DiPietro is ready.  It's not that I want to trade Demko but if Marky signs long term here which I think he will then I'm sure Demko would want to move on and we need to get something of quality back, so packaging him with Stecher and maybe another prospect to get a top 6 forward makes sense as Leivo will most likely be gone next year and Ferland may still be on LTIR so there will be an opening in the top 6 that will need to be filled.

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2 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Let's face it guys the canucks have experience playing withhout Chris Tanev. The key is whether Tryamkin can play 2RD on a CUP contender. If Benning thinks so then move Tanev. How much is Rafferty a gamble at 3RD? His offence can potentially put him on the 2PP. Exciting.

 

What if he doesn't work out? Move Fantenberg to 3LD and Benn over to 3RD. Brisbois is another who could be brought up. I am impressed by how well Fantenberg has played. Another point I would make is re-signing Edler on a year to year basis after his contract is up. I prefer his vet presence over Tanev. 

That's a very good point.  We've played year after year for long stretches without Tanev but people want to al of a sudden sign him to a long term deal at age 30 because he is playing well this year.  Myers has a lot to do with Tanev playing better and not getting injured as Myers has taken up a lot of the big minutes that Tanev would normally have played this year.  So that is why it is safer to let go of Tanev next year versus in prior years as we have Myers now who can play big minutes on the right side.  

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Like you Boud’s,  I think Tanev is the one to move in February..  I can not see signing him at anything over 5mil per regardless.. i think  a player who can not give you consistent 70 game seasons should not make over 5.5mil per unless they are giving you 35-40 point seasons.

Perhaps Tanev returns a good prospect, and or, 3rd or 2nd rnd pick.

The latest Hall trade will push other teams to get creative as we move closer to the playoffs,  lots of teams like ours making the push,. And yes , we can survive without Tanev.

i have no doubt that Tryamkin will, after 1 more complete season in the NHL, be a legit 2nd pairing D man.. and probably given a lot of that opportunity in his next full season. 

He is a beast who’s game excels on the N/A ice.

 

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2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

That's a very good point.  We've played year after year for long stretches without Tanev but people want to al of a sudden sign him to a long term deal at age 30 because he is playing well this year.  Myers has a lot to do with Tanev playing better and not getting injured as Myers has taken up a lot of the big minutes that Tanev would normally have played this year.  So that is why it is safer to let go of Tanev next year versus in prior years as we have Myers now who can play big minutes on the right side.  

Time will tell if that is the route Benning takes. I simply cannot get over the idea of signing Tanev if any kind of term. There is so much talent waiting in the wings. I keep Edler because of his all around game and then re-sign him on 1 year deals. Edler and Myers are my vet transition d-men. Get a big Tryamkin in the line up and it changes the Van back end big time.  

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