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3 hours ago, RetroCanuck said:

Do you think not having Tanev takes us out of the playoff picture? Because if our depth is so poor Id not want to gamble on Tanev's health to get us into the playoffs.

 

Edit: I also don't think this team is playoff competitive because of luck. As I outlined with my 2nd last post. I just believe moving on from expiring UFA's helps this teams future more then using them in their last year. 

 

Is Benn, Tyamkin or Rafferty (or Chatfield) such a downgrade from Tanev that we will miss the playoffs and lose that experience you refer too?

Benn is currently not in the top 6 because he hasn't shown enough. Tryamkin might not join us until late March or April if he even gets released from his contract to play this season and he would coming to a "new" team. Rafferty hasn't proven anything at the NHL level and his biggest knock has been that he needs to improve defensively as per Johnson. Chatfield is a decent call up option at best right now. So while they may not be enough of a downgrade for us to possibly miss the playoffs, it could lead to us backing into the playoffs rather than going in with full control. Also how many teams have you seen heading into the playoffs actually choose to downgrade their roster?

 

Having Tanev gives the best chance of success. Imagine having all that depth you listed, plus a Tanev. You don't plan on him potentially getting injured and potentially any player could get injured (knock on wood). The goal for the playoffs this year (aside from actually trying to win the damn thing) is to gauge our team in a playoff situation, so having the best chance to succeed will give us the best gauge on where we need to improve and tweak for the following season. Any year you make the playoffs could be the year, so you don't waste them.

 

My viewpoint is that most playoff bound teams acquire rentals anyway. So Tanev may potentially be our "playoff rental" that we don't have to pay an asset for.

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1 hour ago, DeNiro said:

Don’t feel bad for them they won’t be bad for long.

 

If they land Lafreniere or Byfield they’ll be adding to an already solid young core of Larkin, Bertuzzi, Hronek, Mantha, Zadina, Seider, Fabbri, Veleno, Rasmussen, Cholowski.

 

They’re ripe with high end talent they just need the right coach in place to help develop their next core.

 

There are a lot of teams in much worse positions.

Fair point. It'll be interesting to see who they nab, the draft lottery is a fickle thing. 

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1 hour ago, Me_ said:

Seriously. We’re April, Tryamkin signs and comes back. Say the defence then is as it stands today:

 

EDLER - STETCHER

HUGHES - TANEV

FANTENBERG - MYERS

Benn

 

Where does he fit?

 

 

One thing's for certain, he definitely brings an element to the table that very few players currently in the NHL are capable of.

 

The fact that he can ragdoll guys like Getzlaf and Jamie Benn, immediately puts teams on notice. 

 

That in itself is priceless.

 

Where he fits in once he's here, I'll leave that up to the guys behind the bench. 

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3 hours ago, Me_ said:

Seriously. We’re April, Tryamkin signs and comes back. Say the defence then is as it stands today:

 

EDLER - STETCHER

HUGHES - TANEV

FANTENBERG - MYERS

Benn

 

Where does he fit?

 

 

You think the D will be all healthy the whole time?

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You guys saw how bad we were without Edler? You guys think we can make the playoffs without Tanev? We now are having success while he's healthy and you want to trade him away?

 

Pacific is tight. We're not a dominant team. Tryamkin would not be able to replace what Tanev brings right away.  Doesn't even have a seasons worth of games of experience and has been away for 3 years. Benn is not a top 4 D and not even in our top 6 right now, Rafferty needs to work on his defensive side of the game.

 

How many teams that are trying to make the playoffs downgrade? You do know other teams will be looking to improve so you think we'd be fine with subtracting while other teams added?

 

Also Tanev's agent stated that his priority is to re-sign in Vancouver. Hughes-Tanev is a great pairing and we should keep it around.

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7 hours ago, Me_ said:

Seriously. We’re April, Tryamkin signs and comes back. Say the defence then is as it stands today:

 

EDLER - STETCHER

HUGHES - TANEV

FANTENBERG - MYERS

Benn

 

Where does he fit?

 

 

If Tryamkin was available before the TDL then he steps in for Stecher. Quite honestly I feel Fantenberg is now 5D on the club. 

 

The real issue faced by Benning is whether to move Stecher or Tanev before the TDL. Highly doubtful he can resign both without threatening his CAP framework. Both will want raises and term. Very hard decision. Tanev at 30 with 3/4 year term is almost a non starter IMO. What can JB get for Tanev. He is having an excellent season. 

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Personally I think they should trade his rights and be done with him. Send him to the east coast far away from the smoke in Vancouver.

 

Wasn't happy the first time here, now he's not happy in Russia!? I believe he is not that good, hasn't stood out in the KHL and been pushed down the depth chart? Suspicions of attitude problems have been speculated.

 

I would be more concerned with the effect on team chemistry more than anything, he has not EARNED his spot like the others.

 

Now if he came to Camp in September and had a good camp, makes the team on his play and positive attitude, I would be happy.

 

Just my 2 cents

 

Go Canucks Go

Edited by AbrasiveAjax
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6 hours ago, SilentSam said:

Have to agree with this.

Tanev is not taking us into the playoffs. The entire team is.

Tanev is not going to win us a cup.   But it is possible the entire team will.. but probably not this season any way.

 

We need to get a look at players like OJ,  Rafferty, Bresbois, and Sautner again.. and with the probable return of Tryamkin for the playoffs..  this team will still make the playoffs without Tanev.

We need to get something back for a player we are not going to resign.. and we won’t resign him because the aforementioned players will be pushed hard to make the Team next season.

This is attrition, and how a true farm system works.

Lets hope we can get a 2nd rnd pick back for Tanev from a team that needs him and would resign him next season.. add a prospect or a pick and do better in the draft.

 

Do you not think Tanev has contributed to where we are today? He isn't some insignificant piece. Whether he helps us get the rest of the way to the playoffs or wins us a Cup isn't important (although I do think he would be a key part still, especially considering he's our top PK defender and a good balance to Hughes with his decent skating and high IQ) because he is part of the team. The players like him. If the entire team is going to win, then he's very much part of the team. No one downgrades their team heading into the playoffs. You go in with the best team moving forward. Every year counts as you don't know which year will be the one, you don't throw away any opportunities. When you hear Cinderella stories or 8th place teams winning the Cup, I doubt those teams were selling assets because they didn't think this would be their year anyway. Having the best playoff experience is going to outweigh whatever draft picks we are going to get who may or may not even pan out. We are getting past that window of needing to sell UFAs.

 

As long as Benning and crew keep hitting on late round picks (which we seem to be doing a fine job if so far), then it doesn't matter how many picks are added. Our prospect pool is filling up so we can push forward rather than rebuild forever.

 

I agree those players need to play and to see what we've got in them, but the playoff drive and playoffs is not the time to do this unless we have injuries or what not which opens up the opportunity for them. This is how you build a positive team culture (not selling away good team guys for "assets") and grow from experience (best possible team).

 

I should also add in part of the consideration is that if we make the playoffs, we are giving up our 1st. Might as well try and do the best we can to lower that pick are far as we can as well.

Edited by theo5789
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13 hours ago, RetroCanuck said:

Do you think not having Tanev takes us out of the playoff picture? Because if our depth is so poor Id not want to gamble on Tanev's health to get us into the playoffs.

 

Edit: I also don't think this team is playoff competitive because of luck. As I outlined with my 2nd last post. I just believe moving on from expiring UFA's helps this teams future more then using them in their last year. 

 

Is Benn, Tyamkin or Rafferty (or Chatfield) such a downgrade from Tanev that we will miss the playoffs and lose that experience you refer too?

Tanev is our number one defensive Dman. Taking any team's top defensive Dman out of the picture significantly weakens their playoff aspirations. Only a tanker would think that makes sense. And no amount of rhetoric is going to change that.

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1 hour ago, AbrasiveAjax said:

Personally I think they should trade his rights and be done with him. Send him to the east coast far away from the smoke in Vancouver.

 

Wasn't happy the first time here, now he's not happy in Russia!? I believe he is not that good, hasn't stood out in the KHL and been pushed down the depth chart? Suspicions of attitude problems have been speculated.

 

I would be more concerned with the effect on team chemistry more than anything, he has not EARNED his spot like the others.

 

Now if he came to Camp in September and had a good camp, makes the team on his play and positive attitude, I would be happy.

 

Just my 2 cents

 

Go Canucks Go

You’re bang on Ajax.  IMO JB keeps saying publicly how he’s excited about Tryamkin coming back is simply him trying to keep some value is that asset.  

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If we sign Tryamkin super late in the season wouldn't he have ridiculously inflated cap hit like Brogan and Teves did last year kinda non starter him comming in for the playoff push if that's the case. 

 

I say invite Tram to camp next season and go from there. If he comes in out of shape its Utica or the KHL for him IMO I wouldn't trade his rights. Until giving him a chance to adjust to NA.

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I am very mixed in how Tanev should be dealt with....

There is no doubt, that Tanev, whether he is paired with Hughes or another, helps this year, if healthy

On the other hand, I don't see him here when our team of young guns matures

Even Miller, becomes older by that time.

 

My gut says, trade him for that late 1st, his value is in the now

My brain asks, do we have an actual replacement? I do not believe Green or Benning has answered that.

We certainly need to see Rafferty asap. We need to know if he can actually play up here, in any meaningful way.

It is interesting that Tanev and Rafferty are both NCAA free agents...their stories are very similar.

But in any case, Rafferty answers the immediate question as to whether we could trade Tanev this year.

Too many variables, and Tryamkin is not under contract by the time Benning would have to decide.

So, Tanev goes no where.

 

My main question I wonder is whether Benning is controlling the situation with Rafferty to prevent controversy with Tanev.

It is his MO, so I would not be surprised

 

My nagging thought is, I wonder if we are still, holding on, much like we did, after 2011, where we just would not move our aging veterans.

If we had ready players, who could stand in and take up, Markstrom and Tanev's positions, it would go along way to controlling our cap

"IF" we do not have ready replacements, loosing either, does not help us short term (next 2/3 years), where our journey seasons our young core

and readies them for the years to come.

 

My biggest problem with keeping both, is what they will ask, in terms of contracts.....aging vets are trying to get that last home run contract

Do we want either up coming contracts in 2 or 3 years, when even more of our young core, will need new contracts?

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The playoffs are a long and brutal battle to get through  more than one round. Whistles get put away. Intensity and hitting ramp up. Tryamkin could take those big mismatches.  Like how Svetchnikov pushed past Huggy the other day. That ain't happening with Tryamkin.  Or those bloody long stupid cycles in our zone. Tryamkin snuffs those out. Why can't we have both for the playoffs Tanev and Tryamkin?

ps I think the book is out on Tanev. No one wants to risk a big contract on a injury prone player. I don't really see a first for him.

Edited by Hairy Kneel
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12 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Don’t feel bad for them they won’t be bad for long.

 

If they land Lafreniere or Byfield they’ll be adding to an already solid young core of Larkin, Bertuzzi, Hronek, Mantha, Zadina, Seider, Fabbri, Veleno, Rasmussen, Cholowski.

 

They’re ripe with high end talent they just need the right coach in place to help develop their next core.

 

There are a lot of teams in much worse positions.

Yup. Was having this discussion in one of the player threads last week, DET is not far off from rebounding IMO. They've got a SOLID prospect pool.

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44 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

 

My main question I wonder is whether Benning is controlling the situation with Rafferty to prevent controversy with Tanev.

It is his MO, so I would not be surprised

Could you elaborate on this further? What are some examples?

 

45 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

 

My nagging thought is, I wonder if we are still, holding on, much like we did, after 2011, where we just would not move our aging veterans

A declining playoff contender is not the same as an up and comer. We have preached about insulating our young guys. This goes into potentially our first playoff experience with this young group. Tanev is our top PK guy, who replaces that suddenly going into the grind? Hughes may make his defensive partnership look good, but Tanev is a good compliment. You want to go into the playoffs with Rafferty who doesn't compliment Hughes' skill set or have a diminutive (but heart of a lion) Stecher? So we are left with Myers and maybe Tryamkin who would potentially join in late March or April. Myers looks better with a defensive adequate partner too.

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