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3 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

IDK if Roussel would be more tradeable then Sven. I think both are untradeable. It's kind of up in the air. Cap would be a premium with more cap heavy/playoff teams IMO. I think rebuilding ones would be possible but you'd have to be ahead of the curb because teams are gonna want to cap dump right away and there are only so many teams to do it with. So yeah we probably would have to attach something with whoever we dump but we'd have to do that with everyone we try to dump and all teams are gonna be in that same boat. Rebuilding teams are gonna get a real nice boost from cap dumps if the cap goes down.

 

Everything you said about last season means less than this season, minus the injury. This year he has been played with pretty decent secondary scorers in Gaud/Jake. Hasn't touch a lick of PK time, probably because we have had better options. Hasn't been used in any defensive roles and has been on a sheltered line. He isn't a huge physical presence either. IMO if you want to be a good/successful player in the NHL you have to do a couple/few things well or be really good at one thing. Beagle for example is a great defensive player while Motte can play d and is a physical presence. It's kind of why I am hesitant to bring in more young forwards till Virtanen/Gaud round out their games because they've only really been secondary scorers for us hence why they've been sheltered from defensive responsibilities. What I want is a better player for that line and if Ferland(physical secondary scorer) comes back he is that and Mac has shown he can bring more to the table than Roussel.

 

Kind of went off-course with the 2nd paragraph but it gives you an idea where I am coming from.

 

Kicker for me is the 2nd year with Roussel. It's gonna cost more in a dump to get rid of more term than whether or not one is more useful than the other. Rebuilding teams won't really care unless they really don't have any/enough veterans but that's why they got FA and they can acquire one their that can eat up those tough minutes for their youngsters that would be better a better option than Roussel. They usually do have enough most of the time and are just looking for more assets in a dump.

 

You should usually take it season by season with cap dumps if you're in the amidst of a rebuild because you never know when young guys will break out, example being Petey. Unless you're just starting a rebuild like ANA who've stated they'd take back contracts. That's why I'd be looking at a guy like Sutter to ANA.

I guess we differ in how we view Roussel. He's not a player that I view to "dump". I think he has value to us, which turn gives him value to others in a trade. I don't think he's being sheltered so much as being the veteran presence on the line. He was injured to start the year and certain players had taken over PK duties. We moved on from Schaller and in this scenario LE is out. Who's left to PK? I suspect Antoine would find his way back onto the PK. When Roussel has his legs going, he's one of the fastest players on the team. IMO, the biggest knock on him is that he has a reputation and thus hurts his ability to play the agitating role that he's effective in.

 

If we can manage our cap, I'm not in favour of dumping cap while selling off assets. There weren't many teams last year with the cap room to take on dumps and if the cap stays the same or drops, that simply makes it ever harder with more supply than demand. Cap floor teams get that much closer to the floor and aren't as desperate to look for a cap dump. But if anything they might look at someone like Ferland if he can't stay healthy as a LTIR option and especially if his contract is insured.

 

With all that said, I expect we get one compliance buyout at best. Easily goes to LE. I assume we can still have a regular buyout and I would pick Sven with his one year left makes it more manageable. Roussel can still be used in a 3rd/4th line role to provide value for us there or to boost back his stock hopefully. His offensive numbers this past season was right around his average numbers and he was just beginning to click with Gaudette before the season ended.

 

We will have to see how things play out, but I didn't see us having too many cap issues and if we remove all of LE's contract, then that just makes things all that much better and easier. If we can trade Sven, then I'm all for it, but I think I would want to dump Benn before Roussel as well.

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10 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Maybe, times have changed a bit since then. A lot of things have yet to transpire too. Like I was talking to Theo if the cap went down a lot of teams might be looking to dump someone and it could change the market for cap dumps being more pricey. We both can agree and hope that JB can be ahead of the curb if that goes down so we get a deal done early before a high bar is set on cap dumps, similar to what he did with Toffoli.

 

Either way we are arguing a 1-2M cap difference for a year or two so ultimately I wouldn't flame JB or be salty if I didn't get what I want. There are bigger concerns I have with the team than Roussel, especially with the D-core, Ferland's health and signing Toffoli/top 6 forward.

 

A lot of work JB has to do with the cap/contracts. Hopefully he gets some help with a compliance buyout or two. Makes for an interesting off-season. Team could look more different next year and if JB does well it will be for the better.

 

 

Thing is, Roussel is not a 'dump'. Is he making a few hundred k more than 'ideal'? Sure. But he's still a perfectly functional, 3rd line NHL player worth at/near his contract.

 

Yes, times have changed, with cap in particular, so we might need to retain or take a contract back in a bigger package etc given teams are largely at or near the cap ceiling but he would not require 'dumping'.

 

The only reason we might even consider moving him is that, particularly if we re-sign Toffoli, we have a rather full forward core, particularly at wing, and he's one of the more expensive guys in the bottom 6 in a position that's more easily replaceable with existing, in house players. We'd move him as he'd actually garner some return and not cost us assets like it would cost us to move say Baer. Not because he's not still a valuable player.

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On 4/15/2020 at 7:15 PM, Hairy Kneel said:

I wonder about social distancing in the stands? Two seats per family/friends. Every 10 feet? Partially filled stadiums? 

A shortened playoff schedule?

The problem would be the surface area people touches.  The railings, the seats, the glass, door knobs, vending machines, etc.  

Trying to disinfect an entire arena every game would be a huge endeavor.  

 

One this is for certain, some of the sunbelt teams would have the advantage since they already play in front of a half-empty arena, lol.  

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1 hour ago, Drop Em said:

I thought this was a Tryamkin thread? Yet somehow (like a lot of threads) they end being hijacked with talk of other players and other arguments. Pretty sure that if you want to talk about Roussel, that he has his own thread to discuss and argue it in.

I think its just to ease the pain when Tree ends up signing and playing elsewhere ;P

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19 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

IDK if Roussel would be more tradeable then Sven. I think both are untradeable. It's kind of up in the air. Cap would be a premium with more cap heavy/playoff teams IMO. I think rebuilding ones would be possible but you'd have to be ahead of the curb because teams are gonna want to cap dump right away and there are only so many teams to do it with. So yeah we probably would have to attach something with whoever we dump but we'd have to do that with everyone we try to dump and all teams are gonna be in that same boat. Rebuilding teams are gonna get a real nice boost from cap dumps if the cap goes down.

 

Everything you said about last season means less than this season, minus the injury. This year he has been played with pretty decent secondary scorers in Gaud/Jake. Hasn't touch a lick of PK time, probably because we have had better options. Hasn't been used in any defensive roles and has been on a sheltered line. He isn't a huge physical presence either. IMO if you want to be a good/successful player in the NHL you have to do a couple/few things well or be really good at one thing. Beagle for example is a great defensive player while Motte can play d and is a physical presence. It's kind of why I am hesitant to bring in more young forwards till Virtanen/Gaud round out their games because they've only really been secondary scorers for us hence why they've been sheltered from defensive responsibilities. What I want is a better player for that line and if Ferland(physical secondary scorer) comes back he is that and Mac has shown he can bring more to the table than Roussel.

 

Kind of went off-course with the 2nd paragraph but it gives you an idea where I am coming from.

 

Kicker for me is the 2nd year with Roussel. It's gonna cost more in a dump to get rid of more term than whether or not one is more useful than the other. Rebuilding teams won't really care unless they really don't have any/enough veterans but that's why they got FA and they can acquire one their that can eat up those tough minutes for their youngsters that would be better a better option than Roussel. They usually do have enough most of the time and are just looking for more assets in a dump.

 

You should usually take it season by season with cap dumps if you're in the amidst of a rebuild because you never know when young guys will break out, example being Petey. Unless you're just starting a rebuild like ANA who've stated they'd take back contracts. That's why I'd be looking at a guy like Sutter to ANA.

I don't buy that Roussel isn't tradable. 

 

People tend to forget that it takes a while to get back up to speed after suffering a serious knee injury. I thought he was starting to move around very well again before the season was postponed, and surely, he's one of the guys who will benefit the most from this break.

 

He's still an impact guy and of value to us.

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13 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

Thing is, Roussel is not a 'dump'. Is he making a few hundred k more than 'ideal'? Sure. But he's still a perfectly functional, 3rd line NHL player worth at/near his contract.

 

Yes, times have changed, with cap in particular, so we might need to retain or take a contract back in a bigger package etc given teams are largely at or near the cap ceiling but he would not require 'dumping'.

 

The only reason we might even consider moving him is that, particularly if we re-sign Toffoli, we have a rather full forward core, particularly at wing, and he's one of the more expensive guys in the bottom 6 in a position that's more easily replaceable with existing, in house players. We'd move him as he'd actually garner some return and not cost us assets like it would cost us to move say Baer. Not because he's not still a valuable player.

Like I said we differ on him. You think that and I think differently of him this year. And I didn't mean dumping in any sort of demeaning way, it implied shedding cap. I feel a lot of teams are gonna want to if the cap goes down. You've misunderstood that entire post. I even said it wouldn't be the end of the world if I didn't get what I wanted. There are other concerns that are greater than Roussel vs Baer for a possible 2nd compliance buyout.

 

You also missed my point entirely. If the cap goes down it's gonna cost teams something to shed cap. The bar will be set high and there are limited teams that can take back contracts. It'll be a good time for rebuilding teams. They'd want something back in return, they wouldn't want to trade assets when they need them.  I wasn't even trying to relate it to Roussel, I was just saying in general in order to end on something we can agree on when I stated that I hope JB is ahead of the curb when it comes to trading players to shed cap before the high bar is set.

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6 hours ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said:

I don't buy that Roussel isn't tradable. 

 

People tend to forget that it takes a while to get back up to speed after suffering a serious knee injury. I thought he was starting to move around very well again before the season was postponed, and surely, he's one of the guys who will benefit the most from this break.

 

He's still an impact guy and of value to us.

He has been a shadow of his former self most of the year. On top of that we have guys that push him out of the lineup, especially if Ferland's healthy who's spot would he take? Motte's on the 4th line? He doesn't play any role PK/PP, doesn't score enough or is physical enough to make up for it like Ferland/Mac.

 

I think the 2nd year isn't gonna be as enticing to teams with the cap going down IMO and I feel the bar will be set high with trying to shed cap in a trade. Rebuilding teams are gonna want assets coming back.

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2 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

He is a shadow of his former self. On top of that we have guys that push him out of the lineup, especially if Ferland's healthy who's spot would he take? Motte's on the 4th line? He doesn't play any role PK/PP, doesn't score enough or is physical enough to make up for it like Ferland/Mac.

 

I think the 2nd year isn't gonna be as enticing to teams with the cap going down.

Roussel was also recovering all Summer and missed a lot of valuable training in order to get ready for the season. He didnt start playing until December. Only played 41/69 games. He still put up 7g 6a in 41gp which is roughly .30 ppg for a 4th liner. Not too bad.

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18 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

Roussel was also recovering all Summer and missed a lot of valuable training in order to get ready for the season. He didnt start playing until December. Only played 41/69 games. He still put up 7g 6a in 41gp which is roughly .30 ppg for a 4th liner. Not too bad.

Compared to what Motte/Mac have shown capable of at much less cap it is not good enough.

 

A lot has yet to transpire though. I want to wait a bit before engaging into this conversation again so we don't have to argue over what ifs. Need a better environment to grow before anyone can formulate a solid opinion. Need compliance buyouts to be a thing, Toffoli to decide on whether or not to re-sign, etc

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12 hours ago, Drop Em said:

I thought this was a Tryamkin thread? Yet somehow (like a lot of threads) they end being hijacked with talk of other players and other arguments. Pretty sure that if you want to talk about Roussel, that he has his own thread to discuss and argue it in.

I generally  agree with you about staying  on topic. Total believer in that. But I think things are taken  in tandem, we need to make room for Tryamkin  money  wise. I  think JBs been painted into a corner  with certain  players. One should go unnamed  lol

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10 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Compared to what Motte/Mac have shown capable of at much less cap it is not good enough.

 

A lot has yet to transpire though. I want to wait a bit before engaging into this conversation again so we don't have to argue over what ifs. Need a better environment to grow before anyone can formulate a solid opinion. Need compliance buyouts to be a thing, Toffoli to decide on whether or not to re-sign, etc

Oh definitely, they both have youth on their side. BigMac has been healthy and is far bigger than Rooster. However the one thing Roussel has over Motte is the agitation he brings, dragging someone to the box with him or baiting someone into taking a penalty. But $ wise its far better Value with BigMac and Motte.

I get a gut feeling that BigMac is going to score a very big goal when we go on a playoff run. I just keep sensing like he will end up doing something big in playoffs, do to his speed, size, shot and having him further down the lineup where he is more of a complete player with more of a scoring touch than other guys on 3rd/4th lines

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2 hours ago, Nicklas Bo Hunter said:

Sign big buf too and play them together

The Buff of 3-4 years ago would have been a perfect partner for Quinn.  Not sure he will ever play again.  Never say never though.  Adding Buff and Tryamkin to our D would be triple fap worthy.  Would be the biggest D in the NHL with Myers.  One can only hope.

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30 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The Buff of 3-4 years ago would have been a perfect partner for Quinn.  Not sure he will ever play again.  Never say never though.  Adding Buff and Tryamkin to our D would be triple fap worthy.  Would be the biggest D in the NHL with Myers.  One can only hope.

I think it’s interesting how quiet Byfuglien has been over his issue with the Jets..  

i think there is obviously more to hear about this story than just how disgruntled the Jets have been over this.

 

Not like a player has ever been mishandled before,   and a player taking his best interest into his own hands..

 

..if that’s the case,. I wouldn’t be surprised to see DB playing in top form for 2 more years somewhere..

rumour was it was ankle surgery late last year just as the season started,  the only other thing I heard was he had been with his own doctors, therapists, and trainers.

Thats lots of time to see if a return is possible..  and be sure he’s in top form..  only Buff knows. 

   ... perhaps T Myers talks him? 

Geezuz..  what a physical mentor he would be for Tryamkin..  who is already a beast of a young man.

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