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8 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

My take was you were discussing the relative merits of some players. My only point being was that playoffs would have helped that assessment. 

I honestly don’t see how it applies to my argument that Boeser is not worth Severson plus a D+1 player picked in the 1st round + 1st.  I’d think a 1 for 1 deal is far close to being fair 

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Unless Tryamkin is paired with pieces like Virtanen for a top pairing D like Ristolainen I just want to see Tryamkin back.  The worst thing that could happen would be a trade for some project prospect from another team. 

 

We either need Tryamkin to be part of a bigger upgrade package or just signed and paired with Hughes to start (Preference).

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2 hours ago, Boudrias said:

The C-19 shutdown of the NHL season has many negatives. The biggest one for the Canucks is no opportunity to see the young talent play in a playoff setting. Getting the experience would be valuable for their development but also would give Benning a opportunity to evaluate their play in a non regular season setting. Harder game and more stress. 

Totally agree with you Boudrais

But at some point, you have to rip the band-aid off anyways

What is the point of putting in all this time to develop your farm

and the players there, only to not use them because you are afraid

they might fail. 

What I have noticed is a huge reluctance of Green to play his young guys

and honestly when they have come up, they have shown well

only to be left in the press box, after a game or 2

IMO, this failure is on Green and Benning

Brisebois was like +22 last year, and doesn't get a sniff of a call up

If just one of these guys turns shows he can play top 4 minutes

and we are not playing, because he may have a burp

along the way...……..well that is not proper development

and is not good on the Canucks

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4 hours ago, qwijibo said:

Stetcher adds minimal value, Boeser is , by in large, under rated. In what world does a guy who put up 29 goals once, and has had a myriad of injuries return a 25 year old 40 point D, a player picked in the 1st round last year and an additional 1st?   C’mon man.  
 

A 1/1 trade maybe. But asking for an extra 2 1sts? You’re dreaming i

First off, I said something "Like"

Secondly, Severson's +/- is not crazy good, actually poor

Where as Stecher's +/- is pretty darn good

Not saying they are close in ability, but one could argue

that their impact is not as far off as you suggest

IMO, Stecher is very under-rated

So the down grade in Stecher vs Severson isn't as big as

some suggest

As for Boeser, he is a very highly rated U25 RWer

if I remember rightly, he is like the 6th highest

Pts per 60 minutes U25 of all players in the league

So no, when you take the suggestion in context

Boeser and Stecher for

Severson, Foote and a 1st, isn't that far off

And maybe we add a 2nd ?????

But the point is

Many TDL trades for a lot less are pretty close to that

And I also think that New Jersey gets the best player

So an overpayment in appearance, may not be as big as you suggest

Remember, New Jersey has to start winning at some point

and remember Severson is not a #1 dman...

and more like a -2 or a +3 Dman

nothing to sneeze at, but he did carry a -20 plus/minus

and has never had a plus year

So, I am not sure what you are going on about ??????

Remember I suggest a "Like" type trade

and in the end, this allows us to sign Tryamkin easier

among other players

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3 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

First off, I said something "Like"

Secondly, Severson's +/- is not crazy good, actually poor

Where as Stecher's +/- is pretty darn good

Not saying they are close in ability, but one could argue

that their impact is not as far off as you suggest

IMO, Stecher is very under-rated

So the down grade in Stecher vs Severson isn't as big as

some suggest

As for Boeser, he is a very highly rated U25 RWer

if I remember rightly, he is like the 6th highest

Pts per 60 minutes U25 of all players in the league

So no, when you take the suggestion in context

Boeser and Stecher for

Severson, Foote and a 1st, isn't that far off

And maybe we add a 2nd ?????

But the point is

Many TDL trades for a lot less are pretty close to that

And I also think that New Jersey gets the best player

So an overpayment in appearance, may not be as big as you suggest

Remember, New Jersey has to start winning at some point

and remember Severson is not a #1 dman...

and more like a -2 or a +3 Dman

nothing to sneeze at, but he did carry a -20 plus/minus

and has never had a plus year

So, I am not sure what you are going on about ??????

Remember I suggest a "Like" type trade

and in the end, this allows us to sign Tryamkin easier

among other players

+\-? Seriously?  You’re justifying the incredibly lopsided trade suggestion with +\-?  Lol. 

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47 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

+\-? Seriously?  You’re justifying the incredibly lopsided trade suggestion with +\-?  Lol. 

Plus minus is part of it

As is analytics for sure

In the end, the eye test is used 

to determine the differences

 

But more importantly....

Why are you defending your argument

by cutting down mine?

 

Use fact, not aggression

You have done nothing to convince me

you know what you are talking about

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5 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Plus minus is part of it

As is analytics for sure

In the end, the eye test is used 

to determine the differences

 

But more importantly....

Why are you defending your argument

by cutting down mine?

 

Use fact, not aggression

You have done nothing to convince me

you know what you are talking about

You are suggesting that a young top 2-3 40 point D is worth significantly less than an injury prone scoring winger.  A winger who, by the way, struggled to put the puck in the net this season.  It’s just not a reasonable evaluation.
 

 Top scoring D are much harder to find than scoring wingers.  Therefore they’re more valuable.  all that said I think a 1/1 trade is reasonable.  A trade where NJ gives the equivalent of 2 additional 1st round picks is far from reasonable.  
 

with regards to your argument using +\- .  There’s a reason it’s made fun of.   You need a ton of context for it to give even a blurry snap shot of the player’s play.  

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Quote

with regards to your argument using +\- .  There’s a reason it’s made fun of.   You need a ton of context for it to give even a blurry snap shot of the player’s play.

There's a reason why that stat is still kept today and why  insiders still refer to players as either a plus player or a negative player

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26 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

There's a reason why that stat is still kept today and why  insiders still refer to players as either a plus player or a negative player

The efficacy of +/- is only a useful stat when used in conjunction with deployment. Bo Horvat being a - player means absolutely nothing when comparing him to a + player who's used sparingly. It's all about perspective.

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2 hours ago, ohmy said:

The efficacy of +/- is only a useful stat when used in conjunction with deployment. Bo Horvat being a - player means absolutely nothing when comparing him to a + player who's used sparingly. It's all about perspective.

That frankly goes for many stats. When you look at face off percentage it's a laugh. Some guys have only taken two face off against who you have no idea …. but the won them both:lol:

 

But over the course of a season or heck at half season it does indicate a trend, some good some not so much. I'm betting many payers know their own +/- at the end of the game … and they know the coach does as well :(

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15 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

That frankly goes for many stats. When you look at face off percentage it's a laugh. Some guys have only taken two face off against who you have no idea …. but the won them both:lol:

 

But over the course of a season or heck at half season it does indicate a trend, some good some not so much. I'm betting many payers know their own +/- at the end of the game … and they know the coach does as well :(

It’s far more of a team stat.  It’s useless on its own.
 

 Thomas Chabot is a career (-) player and was -18 this season but he’s widely regarded as one of the best young D in the game.

 Stetcher is likely a cap casualty cast off bottom 4 D but was a +10 this year.  Based purely on +\- with no other context which player would you rather have? 
 

if you think +\- is an useful stat in evaluating a player you have to take Stetcher.  Personally I take Chabot 

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11 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

It’s far more of a team stat.  It’s useless on its own.
 

 Thomas Chabot is a career (-) player and was -18 this season but he’s widely regarded as one of the best young D in the game.

 Stetcher is likely a cap casualty cast off bottom 4 D but was a +10 this year.  Based purely on +\- with no other context which player would you rather have? 
 

if you think +\- is an useful stat in evaluating a player you have to take Stetcher.  Personally I take Chabot 

Yeah every day of the week. Lol

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1 hour ago, SilentSam said:

Ok, so hypothetically speaking,.  They Cancel the season.

We sign Toffoli before the Draft.

Trade Boeser and Demko at the Draft to Montreal for

D man prospect Romanov, and a 1st rnd pick.

 

We might possibly lose Demko the following season at the Extorsion Draft.

Boesers money secures Toffoli.

. . And the 1 or 2 contracts we take out of that are ELC’s.

We still might have room to make a play for Pietrangelo.

 

Pray to the Gods LE dosent come back.

 

oh.. here’s a beauty for you Jan.. 

 

BA9F5F31-C48B-472A-AFE3-B5041F548EF9.thumb.jpeg.0cd557e9b81be40f78509f280ecc2ead.jpeg

 

Montreal doesn’t make that trade.  Their top need right now is a top 4 LHD. Romanov is their second best prospect (and one of the top prospects in the league). from the sounds of things he is NHL ready.  Beyond that they have one of the top rated goalie prospects right now in Primeau.  Boeser would be a nice get for Montreal, but not  at the cost of their best D prospect and a top 10 pick 

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6 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Montreal doesn’t make that trade.  Their top need right now is a top 4 LHD. Romanov is their second best prospect and from the sounds of things is NHL ready.  Beyond that they have one of the top rated goalie prospects right now in Primeau.  Boeser would be a nice get for Montreal, but not  at the cost of their best D prospect and a top 10 pick 

Just a question Q

 

Do you like Boeser? For  guy who quotes analytics and such, you don't give much ado to Boeser's points per 60 minutes

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4 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Just a question Q

 

Do you like Boeser? For  guy who quotes analytics and such, you don't give much ado to Boeser's points per 60 minutes

I do. Quite a bit.  But he has holes in his game, injury issues,  and he struggled quite a bit this season. He had a great rookie season but has regressed a little. Likely because of the injuries. Also, his skating is a bit of an issue.
 

Montreal has bigger needs than a scoring winger.  Trading one of the leagues most promising prospects and a top 10 pick for him is robbing Peter to pay back Paul. It would be repeating the mistake of the Sergachev/Drouin trade 

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18 hours ago, qwijibo said:

You are suggesting that a young top 2-3 40 point D is worth significantly less than an injury prone scoring winger.  

I stopped reading at the bolded if you were referring to Boeser lol.

 

He gets his back broken by getting checked into an open door and now he is injury prone?

 

Yeah...ok.    :picard:

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