Nikita Tryamkin | D

[The Colt 45s]

I think we need to stop comparing him to the same player we last saw.  He has worked on developing his skills and is a better player today, having played on the larger ice surfaces against speedy forwards.  Better stick work, better positioning and better thinking the game.  If you are giving up 80 pounds as a small forward and go in the corner with him, you may hesitate.  Especially when you see video of Tryamkin separating forwards from the puck and shoving them to the ground.  But how much is that worth? For how many years are you willing to pay?  This is not baseball where Aaron Judge and Jose Altuve compete on the same level.  Size will always outweigh mobility in the NHL, always has and always will and especially in the defence corps.  Chara was able to succeed for many years because the smaller European contingency played afraid going up against him.  

[theo5789]

4 hours ago, The Colt 45s said:

I think we need to stop comparing him to the same player we last saw.  He has worked on developing his skills and is a better player today, having played on the larger ice surfaces against speedy forwards.  Better stick work, better positioning and better thinking the game.  If you are giving up 80 pounds as a small forward and go in the corner with him, you may hesitate.  Especially when you see video of Tryamkin separating forwards from the puck and shoving them to the ground.  But how much is that worth? For how many years are you willing to pay?  This is not baseball where Aaron Judge and Jose Altuve compete on the same level.  Size will always outweigh mobility in the NHL, always has and always will and especially in the defence corps.  Chara was able to succeed for many years because the smaller European contingency played afraid going up against him.  

This season, they reduced their home ice much closer to NHL sized rinks (along with a few other teams) and I'd argue it was probably his best defensive season in the KHL. Whether that's from the ice surface change or more maturity towards the game, it bodes well for his transition back here.

[SilentSam]

11 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said:

No interest from me in paying 3 million for an unproven NHL player like Tryamkin.

 

I would not mind him back on the Canucks in the 6 spot on D, but paying him more than 2.3 or so for a couple years would be a mistake. He needs to prove he can actually play in the NHL. All he has shown so far is he can play in the KHL which is a league way lower in skill.

 

Hopefully the nucks get him at a reasonable cost...otherwise....jettison him lol.

He has played a solid 79 games in the NHL.  Was offered a contract  3 years ago to stay.

The amount was rumoured to be 2m +/- per. 3 years ago.

 

Benning wants him.  That’s all that matters.

 

Say goodbye, so long,  to Tin-ev..   Not paying 4 -5 mil per for a guy who should have come into the league with a personal medical stretcher,  and leaving a half season gap in the line up every season.

Tryamkin will fill that nicely.

Will be a shame we didn’t ship Tanev this season for a pick.

Edited May 23, 2020 by SilentSam

[Chickenspear]

13 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

He has played a solid 79 games in the NHL.  Was offered a contract  3 years ago to stay.

The amount was rumoured to be 2m +/- per. 3 years ago.

 

Benning wants him.  That’s all that matters.

 

Say goodbye, so long,  to Tin-ev..   Not paying 4 -5 mil per for a guy who should have come into the league with a personal medical stretcher,  and leaving a half season gap in the line up every season.

Tryamkin will fill that nicely.

Will be a shame we didn’t ship Tanev this season for a pick.

Unfortunately, we weren't really in a position to move Tanev out and have the defensive depth to still be competing for a playoff spot. He's been great with Hughes all year, and stayed relatively healthy, aside from that minor injury around the time of the shutdown. 

[SilentSam]

18 minutes ago, Chickenspear said:

Unfortunately, we weren't really in a position to move Tanev out and have the defensive depth to still be competing for a playoff spot. He's been great with Hughes all year, and stayed relatively healthy, aside from that minor injury around the time of the shutdown. 

CS, I didn’t see this season as a strong push to win a Cup, I did see playoffs,.  But even with our D the way it is, it doesn’t seem to have the physical resistance to survive 2 strong series. Personally I thought it probably more an opportunity to bring a rookie or 2 up .

With Rafferty, Joulevi, Breisbois , Sautner , available to help for a round or 2..  and be able possibly pick up a 2nd rnd pick this draft or next, just helps, and speeds up the way this is probably going to play out.

Hughes is going to make all of his partners look great,.  It will be interesting to see how much better he gets with the right partner.

One that can shut cycles down physically and almost instantly for QH to pick up on the puck separation, without losing speed.

 

[Slegr]

9 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

even with our D the way it is, it doesn’t seem to have the physical resistance to survive 2 strong series.

Correct... this is exactly why we need Tryamkin, stat. We're a few weeks away from playing the Wild, with guys like Jordan Greenway coming down hard on our defense. 

Edler is one back spasm away from the press box, Tanev's career of taking hits-to-make-plays often leaves him injured, which forces guys like 5'10 Stecher to play top 4 minutes against power forwards like 6'6 Greenway.  I'm still very perplexed why we haven't signed this guy yet. 

[aliboy]

I'm fine with Tryamkin at $3-3.5M, he is exactly what we need.

[stawns]

1 hour ago, SilentSam said:

He has played a solid 79 games in the NHL.  Was offered a contract  3 years ago to stay.

The amount was rumoured to be 2m +/- per. 3 years ago.

 

Benning wants him.  That’s all that matters.

 

Say goodbye, so long,  to Tin-ev..   Not paying 4 -5 mil per for a guy who should have come into the league with a personal medical stretcher,  and leaving a half season gap in the line up every season.

Tryamkin will fill that nicely.

Will be a shame we didn’t ship Tanev this season for a pick.

if he stays healthy, Tanev is currently a better dman than Try will likely ever be.  That's a big "if" though

[mll]

2 hours ago, Slegr said:

Correct... this is exactly why we need Tryamkin, stat. We're a few weeks away from playing the Wild, with guys like Jordan Greenway coming down hard on our defense. 

Edler is one back spasm away from the press box, Tanev's career of taking hits-to-make-plays often leaves him injured, which forces guys like 5'10 Stecher to play top 4 minutes against power forwards like 6'6 Greenway.  I'm still very perplexed why we haven't signed this guy yet. 

 

He's not allowed to play this season.  RFAs had to be signed by 1 December.

 

The league also told teams that given the Covid situation new contracts can only start next season.  In the past teams were allowed to sign their 1st time ELC players (see Boeser, Makar, Hughes) but this year they apparently do not want to allow it.  The league is arguing that rosters are set and it wouldn't be fair to add those players.  If they don't want new ELCs to begin this year although it was allowed in other years, it's highly unlikely that they make an exception for RFAs like Tryamkin who are not even allowed to join in normal circumstances.

 

[DeNiro]

I don’t think we’ll see a signing until the cap is announced for next season and our current UFA contracts expire.

 

No real rush to sign him right now as he can’t play this season.

[Googlie]

4 hours ago, Slegr said:

Correct... this is exactly why we need Tryamkin, stat. We're a few weeks away from playing the Wild, with guys like Jordan Greenway coming down hard on our defense. 

Edler is one back spasm away from the press box, Tanev's career of taking hits-to-make-plays often leaves him injured, which forces guys like 5'10 Stecher to play top 4 minutes against power forwards like 6'6 Greenway.  I'm still very perplexed why we haven't signed this guy yet. 

I read an interesting stat the other day (can't remember where - Kuzma, maybe?) ....

 

In 71 mins of ice time being paired together (equating to 5 games at 16 mins per game - although obviously fewer minutes in more games) Stecher and Fantenberg were never scored on.

 

Not sure what that says but it did intrigue me

 

Ah - found it  ... The Daily Hive:

 

Oscar Fantenberg – Troy Stecher 

EV TOI: 72:40
CF%: 47.3%
xGF%: 41%

 

It’s a bit of a turtle race to decide who plays with Troy Stecher on the third pairing, but the slight nod goes to Fantenberg. Benn and Stecher had their struggles together, while this suggestion has less of a track record together.

Some of the defensive numbers aren’t great, but it’s worth noting that the pair hasn’t been on the ice for a goal against. They’re both good puck movers and they’ve allowed fewer scoring chances than all the Canucks pairings that don’t include Hughes.

 

Here's the link to the full article;

 

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/best-canucks-defence-pairs

 

 

Edited May 23, 2020 by Googlie

[Canuck Surfer]

3 hours ago, stawns said:

if he stays healthy, Tanev is currently a better dman than Try will likely ever be.  That's a big "if" though

Assuming we can afford Tanev that is?

 

I have argued elsewhere that Tanev should be prioritized above Pearson & Toffoli. Above all our free agents except (maybe) Markstrom. 

 

The $1 mill, see Bartkowski, and $2 mill, see Jprdie Benn, D men have not made us a better team,

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

4 hours ago, aliboy said:

I'm fine with Tryamkin at $3-3.5M, he is exactly what we need.

On a two year contract, fine by me. An AAV of $1.5-1.75M seems about right for Tryamkin. 
 

Probably not what you meant, though.  

 

* * * * *
 

(The following section of this post is just general observation and not really directed at @aliboy, or anyone in particular)

 

Honestly, when you look around for comparables, I have a hard time justifying Tryamkin getting a better deal than a guy like Jamie Oleksiak. 
 

3 years, $2,137,500 AAV

 

Oleksiak signed that deal as an RFA at age 25. He’s 6’7, 255 lbs. Was coming off a season where, after the trade to Pittsburgh, he averaged 17:24 TOI, and scored 14 points in 41 games.

 

Oleksiak profiles like this:

A huge defenseman with terrific reach and strength. Moves very well for a man his size. Has superb agility and athleticism. Oleksiak can deliver thunderous hits and uses his stick effectively to break up passes. He also has good hands and puck skills, which could see him blossom into a very solid two-way defenseman.

(from Elite Prospects)
 

Sound like anyone we know?

 

Oleksiak hits as hard and often as Tryamkin, and he actually fights a lot more. He also scores more points, has better underlying numbers than Tryamkin in the NHL (both today and in 2017), has played on better teams, and has played (especially since the trade) in less sheltered roles.
 

When Tryamkin was here, he averaged 16:52 TO/G, often in sheltered minutes, and on one of the worst teams (and defenses) in the league, and he scored 11 points in 79 games (over two seasons).

 

So tell me again how that’s deserving of over $3 million a season?

 

I’m the first to acknowledge that Tryamkin has the potential to be a very special player, but he’s proved nothing yet. At least nothing more than Jamie Oleksiak had proved when he earned his current three year deal.

 

The deal Tryamkin was reportedly offered in 2017 (2 years @ $2 million AAV) was very fair at the time. Since then, Tryamkin really hasn’t done anything that should push his NHL value higher than it was when he left.

 

I would agree that Nik is older, wiser, more mature, and in better shape than he was when he was here. Those are all great things.
 

He’s also been away for three seasons.

 

He had one really good KHL year (and I think his NHL value would have increased if he’d come back in 2018), and then two years of declining minutes and production.

 

And also some rumours of questionable effort and motivation:

 

“I don’t know what happened in a year, but something changed,” Sports-Express KHL insider Igor Eronko said earlier this year. “Nikita and I are well acquainted, I know him a lot, I’ve had some interviews with him so I know him as a person and as a hockey player. But something wasn’t good for him after that year. He was kind of not feeling in the right place and right position.”

“He got the ‘C’ on the jersey and then the coach took it off later because of effort,” Eronko said. “The coach saw three or four other D, showing much better effort and he wants top determination from every player.”

 

And here are Tryamkin’s KHL stats in black and white:

 

 

So, has Tryamkin increased his NHL value by 50-75% in the three seasons he’s been away?
 

For me, it’s a big no.

 

He’s worth around the same money as when he left, at least until he proves he’s worth more in the NHL (and I’m optimistic that he eventually will).

 

But a player with a very similar stat line, profile, and physical characteristics, to 2017 NHL version Nikita Tryamkin, was given a three year deal for just north of $2 million per season.
 

That’d be right around where I’d be looking to sign Tryamkin, if he wants term.

 

And that’s right about the kind of argument I’d hope to see management bring to their dealings with Nik’s agent.
 

I don’t see how he can command $3+ million right now. He wasn’t worth that kind of money in 2017. And he really hasn’t done anything (yet) that should dramatically increase his NHL value in 2020. 
 

Hopefully the best is yet to come for Tryamkin. And hopefully it’s in a Vancouver uniform. But he needs to prove himself to be a $3+ million player, on NHL ice, before he should get paid that kind of money.

 

 

[BlastPast]

Big no to NT @ 3 mil. . I'm not sure he is even in a position to demand half of that. 

[hammertime]

2m x 1 year is the max from me.  If he's worth more he needs to prove it. 

[DeNiro]

1 hour ago, hammertime said:

2m x 1 year is the max from me.  If he's worth more he needs to prove it. 

Pretty much this.

 

He can take Benn’s money since I don’t think we can justify having him as a number 7 making 2 mil. A trade will likely have to be made there unless we let Tanev walk.

With Tanev:

 

Edler Stecher

Hughes Tanev

Tyramkin Myers

 

Without Tanev:

 

Edler Stecher

Hughes Myers

Benn Tryamkin

 

Not the best looking D but we’d save around 3 mil from letting Tanev walk. The first core is obviously better it comes down to cap space.

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by DeNiro

[hammertime]

26 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Pretty much this.

 

He can take Benn’s money since I don’t think we can justify having him as a number 7 making 2 mil. A trade will likely have to be made there unless we let Tanev walk.

 

Edler Stecher

Hughes Myers

Benn Tryamkin

 

Not the best looking D but we’d save around 3 mil from letting Tanev walk.

 

 If JB has to pay a hefty price to acquire a player who is only a marginal improvement on Tanev I would rather just re up Papa Tanev. 

 

Hughes Tanev/Other

Edler Brogan (Impressive season I want to see what he can do in Stetchers spot.)

Tryamkin Myers 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

2 hours ago, hammertime said:

I would rather just re up Papa Tanev. 

I do worry about our prospects and young players, if and when Tanev finally leaves.

 

Chris and Kendra are basically the billet parents for every young Canucks player. 
 

Don’t know how those kids are gonna keep themselves fed without regular dinners at “Dad’s” place.

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

^^ The above post was tongue in cheek, but it’s definitely going to be a big loss whenever Tanev moves on. He’s been our most stabilizing and effective defensive Dman for years, but he’s also a huge presence off the ice—kinda the glue that holds the team together—and has become the honorary “Dad” to most of the young bucks. Of course, teams move on, evolve, and mature, and everyone can be replaced, but whenever Tanev walks, the team’s culture and character will be taking a significant hit. Not sure what kind of value you can place on that off-ice stuff, or if it’s worth the cost of his next extension (especially with our cap situation), but Tanev is definitely a big part of what makes our group so tight knit.

[Boudrias]

9 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Pretty much this.

 

He can take Benn’s money since I don’t think we can justify having him as a number 7 making 2 mil. A trade will likely have to be made there unless we let Tanev walk.

With Tanev:

 

Edler Stecher

Hughes Tanev

Tyramkin Myers

 

Without Tanev:

 

Edler Stecher

Hughes Myers

Benn Tryamkin

 

Not the best looking D but we’d save around 3 mil from letting Tanev walk. The first core is obviously better it comes down to cap space.

 

IMO Benning has to think 2-3 years out. The interim years are about developing the d-core to be serious CUP contenders. 3 years out and the only players I still see with the club is Hughes, Myers and Tryamkin if he is signed. Maybe Edler for his vet presence as a 6D or 7D. That will be a major transition and suggest that Benning will try and deal for another top 4 or sign a UFA.