Nikita Tryamkin | D

[theo5789]

2 hours ago, Provost said:

The KHL isn’t going to sign players with an option to leave just before their playoffs start.  If they did, it would be dozens of guys and not just Tryamkin and that would be too disruptive.

If he hasn’t signed before whatever the revised Dec 1st deadline will be, he wouldn’t be eligible to play in the NHL.

Not many players would bail on their team near the end of the season.

He doesn’t get paid to train, he wouldn’t be drawing a paycheque until the NHL season started.... IF it starts depending on a 2nd wave of virus and further closures.

The NHL doesn’t look like it will have it’s cap issues/escrow sorted out in the very near future.  His KHL team isn’t likely going to wait until their season is starting  before settling their roster, especially now that there are cap considerations for the first time.

Players sign annual salaries. If they have a signing bonus in their contract, then would get that money upfront. They are obligated to team rules and train based on team recommendations. I'm not aware of players getting paid on a per game basis and why they would only get paid when a season starts.

 

However if that were the case, then I read that their season could end in February, so he could sign a one "year" deal that states that he could leave as soon as his season is done rather than be tied down until a certain contract end date. This wouldn't be much different than Podkolzin joining us later as well.

 

I just don't think this news is the end of Tryamkin for us. In the end, he is very likely to make more money here than in the KHL with their cap in the end and ultimately that's the decision he still has to make.

[canuckledraggin]

1 hour ago, drummerboy said:

Why does he deserves a long term big money deal?   He has proven nothing.  
 

In fact, even you said he would be competing with a bunch of guys who haven’t even made the NHL yet.  
 

If Benn is overpaid as a 6-7, what would Tryamkin be at way more money and term?

Disagree. He has proven he's a giant. It's comical to think that he can't have learned anything in the KHL in 3 years. He played with Datsyuk this year ftr. If you put him on Hughes right he opens up a huge chunk of ice for quick transition. If has the possession game, he'll be unstoppable.

 

[zimmy]

10 minutes ago, canuckledraggin said:

Disagree. He has proven he's a giant. It's comical to think that he can't have learned anything in the KHL in 3 years. He played with Datsyuk this year ftr. If you put him on Hughes right he opens up a huge chunk of ice for quick transition. If has the possession game, he'll be unstoppable.

 

This is the kind of cock-eyed optimism that’s missing from my life right now! I want to argue with a good portion of what you say here but I’m somehow warmed by your take and have decided I want all of this to be true. I can play the contrarian another day.

[canuckledraggin]

22 minutes ago, zimmy said:

This is the kind of cock-eyed optimism that’s missing from my life right now! I want to argue with a good portion of what you say here but I’m somehow warmed by your take and have decided I want all of this to be true. I can play the contrarian another day.

Well played sir. Uncock your eyes and you will be set free.

[mll]

1 hour ago, theo5789 said:

Players sign annual salaries. If they have a signing bonus in their contract, then would get that money upfront. They are obligated to team rules and train based on team recommendations. I'm not aware of players getting paid on a per game basis and why they would only get paid when a season starts.

 

However if that were the case, then I read that their season could end in February, so he could sign a one "year" deal that states that he could leave as soon as his season is done rather than be tied down until a certain contract end date. This wouldn't be much different than Podkolzin joining us later as well.

 

I just don't think this news is the end of Tryamkin for us. In the end, he is very likely to make more money here than in the KHL with their cap in the end and ultimately that's the decision he still has to make.

 

Players receive their base salary roughly every two weeks throughout the regular season - 1st pay-check in October and the last in April.  The calendar will be adjusted for next season.  

 

Tryamkin is RFA and to be allowed to play he has to be signed by 1 December - that deadline will adjust based on the new calendar but if he is not under contract by that new deadline he can't play for the season.  That's why he can't sign for this season.

 

For now the league is not allowing new ELCs to sign this season.  Romanov, Perunovich, Sorokin, etc are not allowed to join although guys like Boeser, Hughes, Makar, Tolvanen were in the past.  The NHLPA is fighting it as it's a CBA negotiated rule.  If that goes through and applies beyond just this season then Podkolzin would not be allowed to join once his season is over and will have to wait the start of the following season.

 

NYI is at risk of losing Sorokin because of that rule as he doesn't want to wait that long before playing.  His KHL team made it clear that they will not accept loans.  The KHL doesn't want to have players leaving the league.  They have even blacklisted several NHL agents like Millstein, Theofanous from doing business there earlier this year as they don't want them recruiting players to sign in the NHL.  

 

[qwijibo]

3 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Well, ok then....

Maybe they should announce measures that would work either way

So like...….extending UFA contracts long enough that this pause does not affect their dealing or trades

To me, it just seems they are flying by the seat of their arse on this one...…...

 

For example...….maybe they should explain to us fans, just how the expiring contracts will be handled, if the season is prolonged

Maybe they should tell us that teams will have some time after the season ends to either resign the players, or trade them

 

To me, they look like they just don't know...………….that looks bad on the league IMO

And handcuffs franchises

Maybe that’s something that hasn’t been ironed out yet with the players union. They can’t just arbitrarily decide these things. The players need to agree to those things.  

[mll]

4 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

IMO, the longer the NHL takes to announce the Cap for the 2020-2021 season, the more they pressure those teams that have cap issues and need to make decisions

 

Personally, I think the NHL has dropped the ball, in this regard

 

The longer they wait, the shorter time frame Gm's will have to massage their line ups, and make deals...……..there will be mistakes made because of this...…...

 

I think it is foolish to wait...……….

 

If Tryamkin was such a priority and Benning felt his demands were reasonable he would have already negotiated a deal.  The KHL season is set to start on time.  The NHL season will probably not start before January.

 

There's a trade freeze in effect for the 24 teams in the play-ins.  The other 7 can trade among themselves.

 

Several in media have reported that contracts are going to slide till the season is completed.  See Friedman below.

 

The salary cap is typically announced around the draft give or take a few days.  Players vote on the cap.  There's nothing to vote on as numbers won't be known until closer to the draft.

 

Activity is concentrated from June to mid-July with the draft and free agency - roughly 4 weeks.  GMs have their phones off in August.  The schedule simply slides - there's still going to be a draft and free agency.  

 

-----

Friedman in his 31 thoughts last month:

My guess is we don’t see training camps before July. In addition to the playoff format, it sounds like the NHL and NHLPA are working together on adjusting the critical-dates calendar. That means contracts for players will be extended from June 30 (the normal end of each season) to whenever this year officially concludes. 

 

The interesting thing will be contracts for coaches/executives scheduled to expire on that date. There will be the option to extend those, too, but there might be situations where a team and/or an individual would not wish to extend. Vancouver and amateur scouting director Judd Brackett would be an obvious one. There is at least one coach not extended past this season who has mused about declining to return.

[J.I.A.H.N]

40 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Maybe that’s something that hasn’t been ironed out yet with the players union. They can’t just arbitrarily decide these things. The players need to agree to those things.  

I get that Q...point taken!

But it just seems there is no communication with the fans

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, mll said:

 

Players receive their base salary roughly every two weeks throughout the regular season - 1st pay-check in October and the last in April.  The calendar will be adjusted for next season.  

 

Tryamkin is RFA and to be allowed to play he has to be signed by 1 December - that deadline will adjust based on the new calendar but if he is not under contract by that new deadline he can't play for the season.  That's why he can't sign for this season.

 

For now the league is not allowing new ELCs to sign this season.  Romanov, Perunovich, Sorokin, etc are not allowed to join although guys like Boeser, Hughes, Makar, Tolvanen were in the past.  The NHLPA is fighting it as it's a CBA negotiated rule.  If that goes through and applies beyond just this season then Podkolzin would not be allowed to join once his season is over and will have to wait the start of the following season.

 

NYI is at risk of losing Sorokin because of that rule as he doesn't want to wait that long before playing.  His KHL team made it clear that they will not accept loans.  The KHL doesn't want to have players leaving the league.  They have even blacklisted several NHL agents like Millstein, Theofanous from doing business there earlier this year as they don't want them recruiting players to sign in the NHL.  

 

https://eyesonisles.com/2020/06/04/islanders-ilya-sorokin-update-cska-moscow-1-year-extension/

 

I assume this is the Sorokin thing you mentioned. It doesn't sound like they will lose him, just that he may potentially be delayed a year further and it sounds like he does want to make the jump to the NHL and with NYI. They are in initial talks which seems like it's a fair thing to do to make plans for whatever happens.

 

It seems this rule right now simply applies for this season due to the circumstances. I'd be surprised if the league suddenly changes the CBA to extend beyond this season, so I highly doubt this affects Podkolzin, but we will see.

 

As for Tryamkin, as I mentioned, we could simply entice him with a signing bonus that he would get upfront if the concern is getting paid. Surely we will know the cap situation and will have decided to sign Tryamkin or not well before the December or extended date. If Tryamkin decides to throw away bigger money so he can simply play sooner than later, then that's on him. I think if Tryamkin's intention was to stay in the KHL, he would've done so a long time ago. He wants to return to the NHL, it's just a matter of making it work for both sides and that won't be at least until the cap for next year is announced so plans can be made. There's a lot of clarity still needed, but I still don't think this news is the end of Tryamkin here.

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 hour ago, mll said:

 

Players receive their base salary roughly every two weeks throughout the regular season - 1st pay-check in October and the last in April.  The calendar will be adjusted for next season.  

 

Tryamkin is RFA and to be allowed to play he has to be signed by 1 December - that deadline will adjust based on the new calendar but if he is not under contract by that new deadline he can't play for the season.  That's why he can't sign for this season.

 

For now the league is not allowing new ELCs to sign this season.  Romanov, Perunovich, Sorokin, etc are not allowed to join although guys like Boeser, Hughes, Makar, Tolvanen were in the past.  The NHLPA is fighting it as it's a CBA negotiated rule.  If that goes through and applies beyond just this season then Podkolzin would not be allowed to join once his season is over and will have to wait the start of the following season.

 

NYI is at risk of losing Sorokin because of that rule as he doesn't want to wait that long before playing.  His KHL team made it clear that they will not accept loans.  The KHL doesn't want to have players leaving the league.  They have even blacklisted several NHL agents like Millstein, Theofanous from doing business there earlier this year as they don't want them recruiting players to sign in the NHL.  

 

it dawned on me after reading your post mll, that if Tryamkin was to sign a longer contract....for example 4 yrs at 3.5, that Tryamkin could take some of that as signing bonus, which would work well for the Canucks as well. My understanding is that 50% can be in signing bonus...……...so the Canucks could sign him, with a signing bonus up to 7 million. in the first year, which then makes the last 3 years paid out at around 2 M per, with a 1M contract in the first year...…...

 

I am not real up on Signing bonus's but, something like that......it would certainly make his contract very moveable in the last 3 years, and if he did want to terminate long the line, the Canucks hit would be small

 

Also...….a question....are bonus's controlled by escrow? There is more than Tryamkin out there in this mess 

[mll]

4 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

https://eyesonisles.com/2020/06/04/islanders-ilya-sorokin-update-cska-moscow-1-year-extension/

 

I assume this is the Sorokin thing you mentioned. It doesn't sound like they will lose him, just that he may potentially be delayed a year further and it sounds like he does want to make the jump to the NHL and with NYI. They are in initial talks which seems like it's a fair thing to do to make plans for whatever happens.

 

It seems this rule right now simply applies for this season due to the circumstances. I'd be surprised if the league suddenly changes the CBA to extend beyond this season, so I highly doubt this affects Podkolzin, but we will see.

 

As for Tryamkin, as I mentioned, we could simply entice him with a signing bonus that he would get upfront if the concern is getting paid. Surely we will know the cap situation and will have decided to sign Tryamkin or not well before the December or extended date. If Tryamkin decides to throw away bigger money so he can simply play sooner than later, then that's on him. I think if Tryamkin's intention was to stay in the KHL, he would've done so a long time ago. He wants to return to the NHL, it's just a matter of making it work for both sides and that won't be at least until the cap for next year is announced so plans can be made. There's a lot of clarity still needed, but I still don't think this news is the end of Tryamkin here.

 

Which is putting NYI in a bind - limited cap space for next season and needing another goalie with Greiss being UFA.  Also shortens their window under team control and delays his development.  This could also be the new calendar for seasons going forward where there will always be some 5 months gap between the NHL start date and the KHL start date.  

Canucks cannot entice Rathbone to sign either.  He will be UFA in August 2021 per Thomas Drance.  If the Canucks can't sign him this year who knows if he will not just decide to go the free agency route next year.  

 

Why would the league change the rule in the 1st place?  They are calling those players "ringers".  Could it be because of Makar's impact last playoffs.  They are allowing junior players like Nick Robertson to suit up for the playoffs simply because he signed his contract in September.  Doesn't feel like it's a one off.

 

Can't pay a bonus before the next league year starts.  Could be in November/December.  

 

[theo5789]

17 minutes ago, mll said:

 

Which is putting NYI in a bind - limited cap space for next season and needing another goalie with Greiss being UFA.  Also shortens their window under team control and delays his development.  This could also be the new calendar for seasons going forward where there will always be some 5 months gap between the NHL start date and the KHL start date.  

Canucks cannot entice Rathbone to sign either.  He will be UFA in August 2021 per Thomas Drance.  If the Canucks can't sign him this year who knows if he will not just decide to go the free agency route next year.  

 

Why would the league change the rule in the 1st place?  They are calling those players "ringers".  Could it be because of Makar's impact last playoffs.  They are allowing junior players like Nick Robertson to suit up for the playoffs simply because he signed his contract in September.  Doesn't feel like it's a one off.

 

Can't pay a bonus before the next league year starts.  Could be in November/December.  

 

So a couple of months wait for a more lucrative contract. Doesn't seem like an issue to me. However wouldn't it be whenever the free agency date would be? Bonuses can be paid out on July 1st prior, so if that date changes to say September 1st, then couldn't they have bonuses paid out as early as then even if the season isn't starting until later much like it has been in the past?

 

They would have to request this change for the new CBA, don't they? The NHLPA are fighting it, so while they could probably excuse it this season due to the circumstances (as this year would have more players available for the rest of the season compared to season's past), I can't see how they can change it beyond until at least the next CBA negotiations. What would be the purpose of a reserve list then?

 

There is uncertainty for Rathbone to sign immediately. With so much up in the air, he's deciding whether to stay in school for another year. There's a high possibility that Rathbone would start in the AHL and that league is even more up in the air than the NHL. I understand why he hasn't signed yet. He might make it to UFA, but we surely will have more clarity by next season and would try to get him locked up and if not, make a deal prior to him hitting UFA (similar to Kerfoot and Butcher). Based on his character though, I don't think he's going to jump ship that easily and with us not pressuring him and allowing him to make the best decision for him and his family will go a long way for his loyalty with us.

 

As I said for Sorokin, looks like it'll be a snag, but unlikely the end of his time with NYI. They still have Varlamov and they can sign a cheap backup for a year. It's not an ideal situation, but it's not catastrophic either.

[mll]

39 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

it dawned on me after reading your post mll, that if Tryamkin was to sign a longer contract....for example 4 yrs at 3.5, that Tryamkin could take some of that as signing bonus, which would work well for the Canucks as well. My understanding is that 50% can be in signing bonus...……...so the Canucks could sign him, with a signing bonus up to 7 million. in the first year, which then makes the last 3 years paid out at around 2 M per, with a 1M contract in the first year...…...

 

I am not real up on Signing bonus's but, something like that......it would certainly make his contract very moveable in the last 3 years, and if he did want to terminate long the line, the Canucks hit would be small

 

Also...….a question....are bonus's controlled by escrow? There is more than Tryamkin out there in this mess 

Contracts have to respect certain limits and that would fall out of it.  The lowest salary can't be less than 50% of the highest year.  There's also a variability rule.

 

There are apparently CBA discussions to limit signing bonuses and have the salary remain flat throughout the contract.

 

There is escrow on bonuses.  Not sure about the payment/withholding arrangements but there is escrow.

 

[mll]

1 minute ago, theo5789 said:

So a couple of months wait for a more lucrative contract. Doesn't seem like an issue to me. However wouldn't it be whenever the free agency date would be? Bonuses can be paid out on July 1st prior, so if that date changes to say September 1st, then couldn't they have bonuses paid out as early as then even if the season isn't starting until later much like it has been in the past?

 

They would have to request this change for the new CBA, don't they? The NHLPA are fighting it, so while they could probably excuse it this season due to the circumstances (as this year would have more players available for the rest of the season compared to season's past), I can't see how they can change it beyond until at least the next CBA negotiations. What would be the purpose of a reserve list then?

 

There is uncertainty for Rathbone to sign immediately. With so much up in the air, he's deciding whether to stay in school for another year. There's a high possibility that Rathbone would start in the AHL and that league is even more up in the air than the NHL. I understand why he hasn't signed yet. He might make it to UFA, but we surely will have more clarity by next season and would try to get him locked up and if not, make a deal prior to him hitting UFA (similar to Kerfoot and Butcher). Based on his character though, I don't think he's going to jump ship that easily and with us not pressuring him and allowing him to make the best decision for him and his family will go a long way for his loyalty with us.

 

As I said for Sorokin, looks like it'll be a snag, but unlikely the end of his time with NYI. They still have Varlamov and they can sign a cheap backup for a year. It's not an ideal situation, but it's not catastrophic either.

 

They arbitrarily changed it.  That's why the NHLPA is fighting it.  It's putting teams at risk of losing players.  It's not insignificant.  The justification is that they are ringers but they are also allowing juniors to play provided they signed contracts earlier.  

 

Injured players are also coming back with teams significantly exceeding the cap - no cap counting as it woulnd't work otherwise.  Penguins get Guentzel back after using his LTIR cap hit to get Zucker.  Canucks would have never been able to afford Toffoli without Ferland/Marksrtom on LTIR.  Those teams kept cap space for those new ELCs - they knew they were adding them after the deadline.  Yet they can't add them for now because the league considers them ringers.

 

It's actually a pretty bad situation for NYI.  He's an important part of their window.  They are losing a year.  It's cap management too with contracts expiring, players reaching UFA.  Unlikely that they can find a backup goalie at Sorokin's ELC cost that could provide the same level of play.   There's a reason he's considered their future starter. 

 

Every player whose rights belong to the team are on the reserve list.  Horvat, Boeser etc are on the reserve list.  It's limited to 90 players.

 

[theo5789]

4 minutes ago, mll said:

 

They arbitrarily changed it.  That's why the NHLPA is fighting it.  It's putting teams at risk of losing players.  It's not insignificant.  The justification is that they are ringers but they are also allowing juniors to play provided they signed contracts earlier.  

 

Injured players are also coming back with teams significantly exceeding the cap - no cap counting as it woulnd't work otherwise.  Penguins get Guentzel back after using his LTIR cap hit to get Zucker.  Canucks would have never been able to afford Toffoli without Ferland/Marksrtom on LTIR.  Those teams kept cap space for those new ELCs - they knew they were adding them after the deadline.  Yet they can't add them for now because the league considers them ringers.

 

It's actually a pretty bad situation for NYI.  He's an important part of their window.  They are losing a year.  It's cap management too with contracts expiring, players reaching UFA.  Unlikely that they can find a backup goalie at Sorokin's ELC cost that could provide the same level of play.   There's a reason he's considered their future starter. 

 

Every player whose rights belong to the team are on the reserve list.  Horvat, Boeser etc are on the reserve list.  It's limited to 90 players.

 

Yes they've arbitrarily changed it for this season given the circumstances. I just can't see how they can change it for the foreseeable future until the new CBA is negotiated. I'm not saying it's not insignificant, but I don't think it'll extend beyond this season.

 

Sorokin is their future starter and remains so even if he comes over a year later, they still have Varlamov signed for 3 more years. Their gameplan could be delayed by a year. They just need a stopgap backup (whether this goalie is of Sorokin's calibre isn't an issue as I doubt Sorokin walks in as the starter bumping down Varlamov immediately) until he can come over. However, they are in early talks, it's not a done deal yet as things are up in the air.

[SilentSam]

8 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said:

Tanev played all 69 games this year.  

And averaged half a hit per game.

[SilentSam]

2 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

it dawned on me after reading your post mll, that if Tryamkin was to sign a longer contract....for example 4 yrs at 3.5, that Tryamkin could take some of that as signing bonus, which would work well for the Canucks as well. My understanding is that 50% can be in signing bonus...……...so the Canucks could sign him, with a signing bonus up to 7 million. in the first year, which then makes the last 3 years paid out at around 2 M per, with a 1M contract in the first year...…...

 

I am not real up on Signing bonus's but, something like that......it would certainly make his contract very moveable in the last 3 years, and if he did want to terminate long the line, the Canucks hit would be small

 

Also...….a question....are bonus's controlled by escrow? There is more than Tryamkin out there in this mess 

It is a mess,.  And the league is not helping the Teams by guarding an unpredictable Cap at this time..

The league (Bettman) should just come out and up it by 5 mil.   Done.
 

Daly came out last week and said that Teams could sign players now, for next season. 

.. but how the hell does that help Franchises Manage if they don’t know their limits?

 

This is worse than verbal diarrhoea,.  We’re talking about verbal constipation . 

 

[mll]

2 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Yes they've arbitrarily changed it for this season given the circumstances. I just can't see how they can change it for the foreseeable future until the new CBA is negotiated. I'm not saying it's not insignificant, but I don't think it'll extend beyond this season.

 

Sorokin is their future starter and remains so even if he comes over a year later, they still have Varlamov signed for 3 more years. Their gameplan could be delayed by a year. They just need a stopgap backup (whether this goalie is of Sorokin's calibre isn't an issue as I doubt Sorokin walks in as the starter bumping down Varlamov immediately) until he can come over. However, they are in early talks, it's not a done deal yet as things are up in the air.

The league's explanation was not about the pandemic but about how these guys are ringers.  Boeser, Makar, Hughes made impacts after signing.  I wouldn't be so confident that it's just for this season.

 

A few wins makes a difference in making the playoffs.  If teams don't have reliable backups they could end up overworking their starter - see Price and it increases the risk of injuries.

It's also financial.  Teams can't just lose a year.  Players get older, become UFAs.

 

Sorokin also turns 25 this summer. At 27 he can be UFA.  With the discussions about changing the season's calendar - he could be UFA after just 1 season.  Less time to evaluate him too.

With training camp date set at 10 July they need a resolution soon as these guys would also need to get their visas and fly over.  Hopefully they just honour the rule.

 

[mll]

.

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by mll

[BigTramFan]

22 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Down year? Anderson sustained a major season ending injury and has had an injury plagued season. He had surgery back in March and the estimated recovery was 4-6 months. We might want to stay clear of that. He's also 26. Savard is also a UFA in 2021, so we'd have him for a year, and is only a year younger than Tanev at 29. 

 

Personally I think we can do a lot better and younger considering we're giving up a core piece, we need to get a core piece back

Believe me Anderson is a core piece! Anderson's shoulder plagued him all this season and they eventually shut it down and decided on surgery. This was the cause of his down year and should not be a problem once he has recovered. Yep the recovery time is 4-6 months, same as Virtanen had in 2014. I would still make this deal, even with the risk associated with Anderson. IMO Anderson brings a completely different dimension than Boeser, has played over 20 playoff games, scored 27 goals last season.

 

Savard may be 29 but he is an entirely different player to Tanev, he hasn't suffered the same number of injuries and usually completes whole seasons without missing games. We will have the cap space to resign him in 2021 once Sutter, Baer, Pearson, Edler and Benn have moved on.