Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

Nikita Tryamkin | D


Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Provost said:

Yep, speaking out of your Ass.

 

Contracts have terms, and if those terms aren’t met, then there are remedies.

 

If you buy a new car and the truck carrying it goes off a cliff on the way to being delivered to you... the car dealership doesn’t just get to say “oh well”.  They didn’t fulfil their terms of the contract.

 

The NHL hasn’t fulfilled the terms of their contract so the remedy is either already included in the contract, or they come to a negotiated or imposed agreement as to what the NHL gets or doesn’t get paid.  I fully expect there is an existing clause for “games that cannot be played”, because there are lots of reasons that could happen and they would have foreseen that.

 

Lots of the reporting talks about how the play in and playoff formats were designed to help fulfil the terms of their broadcaster agreement so they affected revenue as little as possible.  The billion dollars lost if the season/playoffs get cancelled are the lost ticket revenue AND lost TV revenue.

Thanks for the law 101 lesson. While I'm not a lawyer I'm also not an idiot. I do understand how contracts work. My point was that this situation isn't something that anyone could predict, and while they are obligated to fulfill their end of the contract in this situation they can't so I would be surprised if they are penalized extra. I am not saying that the networks should forgive any debt that might be owed ie money paid for services not provided. I hadn't seen anything before about the structure of the proposed ending of the season was to fulfill their obligation to the network so thanks for pointing that out. I don't suppose you have a link where that's talked about?

  • Hydration 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Fan since 82 said:

Thanks for the law 101 lesson. While I'm not a lawyer I'm also not an idiot. I do understand how contracts work. My point was that this situation isn't something that anyone could predict, and while they are obligated to fulfill their end of the contract in this situation they can't so I would be surprised if they are penalized extra. I am not saying that the networks should forgive any debt that might be owed ie money paid for services not provided. I hadn't seen anything before about the structure of the proposed ending of the season was to fulfill their obligation to the network so thanks for pointing that out. I don't suppose you have a link where that's talked about?

I don’t think you are an idiot at all.


This story I found refers to “make good” remedies.  That makes it pretty clear that  there is language surrounding how missed games are dealt with.

 

The guys writing these contracts are a hundred times smarter and more experienced than I am.  I am not a lawyer.  Any complicated contracts I did always had to be sent to corporate counsel to review and improve.  

 

https://fortune.com/2020/03/25/nba-mlb-nhl-sports-blackout-leagues-tv-deals/

Edited by Provost
  • Hydration 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Provost said:

I fully understand what a force majeure clause is.  They aren’t specific to sports and entertainment, effectively all commercial contracts and CBAs have them as standard.  For you to even muse about the NHL “shutting bricks” because they screwed up by not having one in their contracts shows you literally have zero knowledge about this stuff.

 

The NHL has a force majeure clause in the contract to clean their office toilets... they didn’t “forget” to put one in their major broadcast deals.

 

They do have those clauses, even basic contracts do as boilerplate.  I have written hundreds of them both as collective agreements and vendor/supplier agreements.  Every single one had either a standard force majeure clause or a customized one with specific language to the contract.

 

They don’t entitle either party to not fulfil their contractual obligations but still get paid (unless that was specifically written into the contract) and no side would ever allow that. That just isn’t what they are in the slightest.  It allows you out of your contractual obligations without penalty or additional remedy, that is very different.


So, it means the league can claw back guaranteed salary from players for games not played.  It also allows players to not play those games without their contracts being terminated for non performance. It can allow the broadcast partners to hold back paying for games that didn’t happen.

 

Force Majeure does not allow one party to come out whole at the expense of the other party like has been suggested.
 

it is even really doubtful that this would even fall under a force majeure clause and there almost certainly is a more specific clause about how to deal with missed games that were outside the control of either party.  Missed games are something that can be “foreseen” due to things like weather, etc.  Specific clauses over ride general ones in contract interpretation.  
 

On top of all of that, most jurisdictions have an additional “common law” tenet for contracts called “frustration”.  Even without a force majeure clause, that would allow for issues out of either party’s control.

 

They would also have “make good” remedies outlined for missed games which specifically outline the remedies for each side.  These are rooms full of expert lawyers on each side spending months on these contracts.  They aren’t idiots and you “random layman CDC guy” have caught them out.
 

The league has made it crystal clear that they will lose their broadcast revenue for games not played.  That is part of the billion dollars they keep talking about.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some one here mentioned “penalties”..   to the NHL for not having fulfilled the contract.

 

Thus HAVING to return to finish the season ( all the while the Virus is spiking again).

 

i too have been around “force majeure” for 20 + years,.  And yes some are written up to compensate for some losses incurred because of a stoppage under this term.

an example being myself receiving 2 weeks pay after shutting down for Covid..  a term written in , and a type of insurance paid for through the Corporate Production.  Like wise the Corporate Production has its clauses to cover losses while not producing.

Likewise for any other type of “event” stopping production, fire, landslide, death..  it kicks in as well.

Designed to help the Corporation and the employees in such circumstances of a force Majeure.

 

Yes, I am assuming the NHL dosent have the same type of policy,  or I’m sure we would have heard about it.. ?

and I’m sure they would have shared it with the NHLPA. under the revenue sharing agreement.

 

 

              IF the NHL. has this liability coverage please post it.   I’ve seen nor heard anything from the NHL to say it exists.

Edited by SilentSam
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

The longer this summer goes the shorter next season becomes. So if we only get a 60-70 game season next year does that effect salary? Contracts signed for an 82 game season. 

 

I think you're making that up. They will play a full season.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

The longer this summer goes the shorter next season becomes. So if we only get a 60-70 game season next year does that effect salary? Contracts signed for an 82 game season. 

 

Bettman's already come out and said he's unwavering on a full 82 game schedule next year. All-star break is almost certainly a no go, and I guess we'll have to see what the NHLPA wants to do in regards to "bye-weeks", back to back games will likely increase for all teams if they decide to keep them. Could potentially shorten the regular season by a month or so, start playoffs in May, get back to a regular October start for the 21-22 season, at worst, November.(Assuming a January start)

Edited by Chickenspear
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

The longer this summer goes the shorter next season becomes. So if we only get a 60-70 game season next year does that effect salary? Contracts signed for an 82 game season. 

 

It’s starting to push the game out of its Winter Element..

I can’t stand the thought of watching Hockey in the Dead heat of Summer when it’s day light till 10 pm ..  and 120 f or more in Las Vegas..  Good Luck.

..  and then have this desperate season off set the balance for the next.

IT speaks volumes of greed and desperation, to struggle with a problem,  than to make let it stop,.    And then re group from a position of full awareness and strength for the future.

 

There are better things to do..64A3D4C9-10CF-43AD-B0E0-71199A288C17.thumb.jpeg.e35f245b8ad2ba8535f71c3f03f35f93.jpeg

 

 

  • Hydration 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Provost said:

I don’t think you are an idiot at all.


This story I found refers to “make good” remedies.  That makes it pretty clear that  there is language surrounding how missed games are dealt with.

 

The guys writing these contracts are a hundred times smarter and more experienced than I am.  I am not a lawyer.  Any complicated contracts I did always had to be sent to corporate counsel to review and improve.  

 

https://fortune.com/2020/03/25/nba-mlb-nhl-sports-blackout-leagues-tv-deals/

Sorry I was being over sensitive...was forced out of bed early with really bad neck pain and was more than a bit grumpy. Thanks for the article it was really informative. Clearly not an easy solution to get to.

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Chickenspear said:

Bettman's already come out and said he's unwavering on a full 82 game schedule next year. All-star break is almost certainly a no go, and I guess we'll have to see what the NHLPA wants to do in regards to "bye-weeks", back to back games will likely increase for all teams if they decide to keep them. Could potentially shorten the regular season by a month or so, start playoffs in May, get back to a regular October start for the 21-22 season, at worst, November.(Assuming a January start)

They are also looking into changing the calendar going forward - not just for next season.   The networks believe it will increase viewership to start the season later.   There is too much competition with other major sports in October.  Most viewership is late winter and spring.  Home games are profitable from mid-January onwards.  With the losses piling up and the need to agree on a new US TV deal - changing the dates of the season could be part of it.  

  • Hydration 1
  • Huggy Bear 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Chickenspear said:

Bettman's already come out and said he's unwavering on a full 82 game schedule next year. All-star break is almost certainly a no go, and I guess we'll have to see what the NHLPA wants to do in regards to "bye-weeks", back to back games will likely increase for all teams if they decide to keep them. Could potentially shorten the regular season by a month or so, start playoffs in May, get back to a regular October start for the 21-22 season, at worst, November.(Assuming a January start)

There is also word trickling out that the league would actually like to use this opportunity to have the season to start later for good.  Lots of US markets have to compete with lots of other sports in October and November.  Moving the season start until December permanently gets them away from competition that they aren't winning, both for ticket sales and TV broadcast windows.
 

  • Hydration 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

i find this thread annoying

particularly for it's many many pages of discussion

about a player who had a fairly brief playing career with the nucks to date

 

 

for some perspective

i have quickly reviewed posting in this thread based on the phases of tryamkin's career development since the thread started

i encourage people to review this thread on their own and point out where i am incorrect in my review

 

breaking down the thread:

page 1 - june 28, 2014, tryam is drafted and is now a nuck prospect, and this thread starts

page 50 (or so) - january 15, 2016 - discussion starts about tryam joining the nuck team for the end of the 2015/16 season (the next 80 pages are about his joining the team that season, and some after that season discussion)

page 132 - the first post on this page is june 3, 2016

page 132 - the next post is october 20, 2016

page 132 - post by Silent Sam on October 21, 2016 - is the last post in 2016, and tryam is still sorting out his conditioning issues before he will be back on the team roster and playing again this particular season

page 132 - there is no other post during the entire season

page 132 - the next post is on May 7, 2017, after tryam already left the team and signed in the khl

 

page 132 - 545 - huge amount of discussion when tryam no longer contributed anything to the team

 

this thread was crickets when tryam actually contributed on the ice to the nucks in the 2016/17 season

there was nothing worthy of posting or discussion it seems

 

am i the only one?

doesn't this level of attention post tryam leaving the team feel just a tad distorted to anyone else?

and i do know that there were discussion about tryam and his various issues in other threads

 

but every player has a player thread (and also has other threads posted about a current issue impacting that player)

go ahead and review any other important player's thread there is unbroken discussion about them continually

go look at ep40, brock, hughes, edler - pick anyone

and it seems if there is not that sort of posting

it reflects the importance status of the player at that time

 

this evolving narrative, that i see in this thread, about tryam's importance to the team seems to contain so much hype based on speculation and hope of some posters on here

i simply find it baffling, a bit twisted

and annoying

 

Edited by coastal.view
  • Hydration 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, coastal.view said:

i find this thread annoying

particularly for it's many many pages of discussion

about a player who had a fairly brief playing career with the nucks to date

 

 

for some perspective

i have quickly reviewed posting in this thread based on the phases of tryamkin's career development since the thread started

i encourage people to review this thread on their own and point out where i am incorrect in my review

 

breaking down the thread:

page 1 - june 28, 2014, tryam is drafted and is now a nuck prospect, and this thread starts

page 50 (or so) - january 15, 2016 - discussion starts about tryam joining the nuck team for the end of the 2015/16 season (the next 80 pages are about his joining the team that season, and some after that season discussion)

page 132 - the first post on this page is june 3, 2016

page 132 - the next post is october 20, 2016

page 132 - post by Silent Sam on October 21, 2016 - is the last post in 2016, and tryam is still sorting out his conditioning issues before he will be back on the team roster and playing again this particular season

page 132 - there is no other post during the entire season

page 132 - the next post is on May 7, 2017, after tryam already left the team and signed in the khl

 

page 132 - 545 - huge amount of discussion when tryam no longer contributed anything to the team

 

this thread was crickets when tryam actually contributed on the ice to the nucks in the 2016/17 season

there was nothing worthy of posting or discussion it seems

 

am i the only one?

doesn't this level of attention post tryam leaving the team feel just a tad distorted to anyone else?

and i do know that there were discussion about tryam and his various issues in other threads

 

but every player has a player thread (and also has other threads posted about a current issue impacting that player)

go ahead and review any other important player's thread there is unbroken discussion about them continually

go look at ep40, brock, hughes, edler - pick anyone

and it seems if there is not that sort of posting

it reflects the importance status of the player at that time

 

this evolving narrative, that i see in this thread, about tryam's importance to the team seems to contain so much hype based on speculation and hope of some posters on here

i simply find it baffling, a bit twisted

and annoying

 

Why wouldn't you highlight any of his positives. His duels with Benn or the Ducks. His scrap with a fellow ruskie defending Shore. How he helped settle down the bottom pairing when dumbass finally played him?

So basically what you did was make a mud pie of his thread and called it a substantiated viewpoint. 

Brock,Hughes,Edler? Tryamkin was a THIRD ROUND PICK. He was increasing his value as he played. What about him crushing Richardson in half breaking his leg without even trying? Why was he one of our leaders in hits?

Anyone can compare all star first rounder threads with long shot third rounders and look smart. Why even bother coming on a thread than to just leave a huge dump.

Edited by Hairy Kneel
  • Hydration 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Why wouldn't you highlight any of his positives. His duels with Benn or the Ducks. His scrap with a fellow ruskie defending Shore. How he helped settle down the bottom pairing when dumbass finally played him?

So basically what you did was make a mud pie of his thread and called it a substantiated viewpoint. 

Brock,Hughes,Edler? Tryamkin was a THIRD ROUND PICK. He was increasing his value as he played. What about him crushing Richardson in half breaking his leg without even trying? Why was he one of our leaders in hits?

Anyone can compare all star first rounder threads with long shot third rounders and look smart. Why even bother coming on a thread than to just leave a huge dump.

i said not 1 negative thing about tryamkin in my post

you have a need to read something negative into my post

my post was about how distorted this thread has been due to posters

i intentionally made no comment about the player

 

i believe tryamkin has potential

we just need to see how much of that he can in realize in the nhl

 

am not sure why my casual browsing of any and all threads on these boards

requires me to either jump on the bandwagon of posting incessantly about the topic of the thread

or simply shutting up

this thread is present a lot more then most threads here

i find that to be somewhat curious

and a bit odd as so much of the posting has taken place when he was not part of the team

i think my comments are relevant

 

i can understand why you might be offended personally about my comments

but deflecting them onto tryamkin

is a bit short sighted (and fixated) on your part

and so you have helped make my point about this thread

and for that i thank you

 

  • Hydration 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

You say his thread is annoying and he hasn't contributed to the team, he's a project. And we own his rights.  Why wouldn't we look at his upside especially after signing so many bottom feeder defensemen. He's a free asset. Who is your favorite D man after Hughes?

  • Hydration 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Provost said:

There is also word trickling out that the league would actually like to use this opportunity to have the season to start later for good.  Lots of US markets have to compete with lots of other sports in October and November.  Moving the season start until December permanently gets them away from competition that they aren't winning, both for ticket sales and TV broadcast windows.
 

So do you think the playoffs would go through the summer and end in late August every year?  I can't see the league going for that and the only way around it would be to shorten the season and/or the playoffs, which I can't see the league going for either.

Edited by Captain Canuck #12
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, coastal.view said:

i find this thread annoying

particularly for it's many many pages of discussion

about a player who had a fairly brief playing career with the nucks to date

 

 

for some perspective

i have quickly reviewed posting in this thread based on the phases of tryamkin's career development since the thread started

i encourage people to review this thread on their own and point out where i am incorrect in my review

 

breaking down the thread:

page 1 - june 28, 2014, tryam is drafted and is now a nuck prospect, and this thread starts

page 50 (or so) - january 15, 2016 - discussion starts about tryam joining the nuck team for the end of the 2015/16 season (the next 80 pages are about his joining the team that season, and some after that season discussion)

page 132 - the first post on this page is june 3, 2016

page 132 - the next post is october 20, 2016

page 132 - post by Silent Sam on October 21, 2016 - is the last post in 2016, and tryam is still sorting out his conditioning issues before he will be back on the team roster and playing again this particular season

page 132 - there is no other post during the entire season

page 132 - the next post is on May 7, 2017, after tryam already left the team and signed in the khl

 

page 132 - 545 - huge amount of discussion when tryam no longer contributed anything to the team

 

this thread was crickets when tryam actually contributed on the ice to the nucks in the 2016/17 season

there was nothing worthy of posting or discussion it seems

 

am i the only one?

doesn't this level of attention post tryam leaving the team feel just a tad distorted to anyone else?

and i do know that there were discussion about tryam and his various issues in other threads

 

but every player has a player thread (and also has other threads posted about a current issue impacting that player)

go ahead and review any other important player's thread there is unbroken discussion about them continually

go look at ep40, brock, hughes, edler - pick anyone

and it seems if there is not that sort of posting

it reflects the importance status of the player at that time

 

this evolving narrative, that i see in this thread, about tryam's importance to the team seems to contain so much hype based on speculation and hope of some posters on here

i simply find it baffling, a bit twisted

and annoying

 

I agree there is a lot of miss-information on here Coastal

 

I personally, take exception to people who evaluate Tryamkin on his first 1/2 season, and not on his progression during the season

I also take exception to people who do not recognize, that Tryamkin was a rookie

And I also take exception to people who discount his progression while back in the KHL

 

I think you are quite right to say, let's wait and see what we have, before jumping on the bandwagon

But at the same time feel that some of the arguments about his wife, and the coach at the time are pointless

and do not recognize that players and people in general mature, as has been evident in some of his quotable comments

 

Do I see him replacing Quinn Hughes...….no

Do I see the possibility of him being a solid Dman, better than a 5/6...…..yes

Do I think that we could use his defensive game and physical play...…………...yes, if it was at the level of his last 3 months he was here 

 

As you say, Time will tell

But in the mean time, people should recognize that there are many Russian players that come over hear and play good hockey

And do get paid decently upon their return

 

IMO, based on what I seen in the last 3 months of his term here, and his play and attributes shown in the KHL,

including being an temporary Captain and Alternate...….makes me believe he will be better than most think

 

I will defend my opinion with facts, and my , knowledge of the game, and life, when I see stupid comments, from people that IMO are just $hit disturbing. 

  • Upvote 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ray_Cathode said:

The blank period on this thread occurred when he was playing with the Canucks and thus no longer a prospect - this is the PROSPECT thread, he would have been transferred to the active player thread. Nobody discussed him on the prospect thread then because he wasn’t one, but there was a ton of discussion on his active thread when he was contributing to the team.

well that makes way too much sense

thanks

that explains the oddness about it

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/14/2020 at 5:28 PM, coastal.view said:

i find this thread annoying

particularly for it's many many pages of discussion

about a player who had a fairly brief playing career with the nucks to date

 

 

for some perspective

i have quickly reviewed posting in this thread based on the phases of tryamkin's career development since the thread started

i encourage people to review this thread on their own and point out where i am incorrect in my review

 

breaking down the thread:

page 1 - june 28, 2014, tryam is drafted and is now a nuck prospect, and this thread starts

page 50 (or so) - january 15, 2016 - discussion starts about tryam joining the nuck team for the end of the 2015/16 season (the next 80 pages are about his joining the team that season, and some after that season discussion)

page 132 - the first post on this page is june 3, 2016

page 132 - the next post is october 20, 2016

page 132 - post by Silent Sam on October 21, 2016 - is the last post in 2016, and tryam is still sorting out his conditioning issues before he will be back on the team roster and playing again this particular season

page 132 - there is no other post during the entire season

page 132 - the next post is on May 7, 2017, after tryam already left the team and signed in the khl

 

page 132 - 545 - huge amount of discussion when tryam no longer contributed anything to the team

 

this thread was crickets when tryam actually contributed on the ice to the nucks in the 2016/17 season

there was nothing worthy of posting or discussion it seems

 

am i the only one?

doesn't this level of attention post tryam leaving the team feel just a tad distorted to anyone else?

and i do know that there were discussion about tryam and his various issues in other threads

 

but every player has a player thread (and also has other threads posted about a current issue impacting that player)

go ahead and review any other important player's thread there is unbroken discussion about them continually

go look at ep40, brock, hughes, edler - pick anyone

and it seems if there is not that sort of posting

it reflects the importance status of the player at that time

 

this evolving narrative, that i see in this thread, about tryam's importance to the team seems to contain so much hype based on speculation and hope of some posters on here

i simply find it baffling, a bit twisted

and annoying

 

You sound like you need a hug and a brisk walk. 

  • Hydration 1
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...