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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Provost said:

None of those guys is a great bet to be NHL regulars, never mind solid top 4 D men.  That is the equivalent of our forward prospect depth 5 years ago when guys like you were slavering over the thought of getting Cassels, Gaunce, and Jensen into our lineup to make up Cup contenders.

Rafferty is the best of the bunch and he is 25 years old with 2 NHL games under his belt.  He is still a long shot to be a difference maker at all.  The rest will be lucky to stick in the NHL at all at this point in their development, we can just hope they take strides over the next few years.

Rathbone is thought of well outside this market as a possible 2nd pairing upside.  Tryamkin is a legit 3rd pairing NHL D now, and maybe can even be a little better.  They would immediately be above anyone in your dog's breakfast of a prospect list in the depth chart.

Your making arguments about things I never said. I never claimed they were all top 4 locks or had higher ceilings than Rathbone. I'm well aware of Rathbone's potential. I'm also well aware he's going to likely need more seasoning before he's NHL ready.

 

And Sautner and Chatfield I'll grant you aren't likely to ever be top 4, or even top 6 D (an argument I didn't make), they'd be perfectly fine as cheap 7/8 D though, which you may not have noticed is all we really 'need' this coming season (unless you can manage to pull a legit 1st pair right D out of some orifice, which none of these guys are ever to likely be, Rath and Try included).

 

Any of Juolevi, Woo, Brisebois and maybe Rafferty (though I see Rafferty as more a potential 3rd pair/spare, 2nd pp 'Yanick Weber' type) could become middle pair D (though most, outside Juolevi -still even a long shot first pair- are likely bottom pair). Brisebois is criminally underrated around here though. Any of them can easily play bottom pair soon/eventually, either with, or instead of Tryamkin.

 

So again, we don't 'need' either guy this coming season. I'm happy to add either/both though as it simply gives us more depth and options.

 

Edited by aGENT

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You know

 

Keven Bieska/Alex Edler/Chris Tanev all came up to the Canucks from the Farm team at pretty much the same time

 

and all though they had good solid numbers, they were not crazy numbers

 

Now you have Brisebois and Rafferty both showing very strong +/- and no one gives them any never mind

 

Even Juolevi's numbers are not horrendous, and Woo has not played 1 pro game

 

Yet everybody writes these guys off........I don't get it!

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

You know

 

Keven Bieska/Alex Edler/Chris Tanev all came up to the Canucks from the Farm team at pretty much the same time

 

and all though they had good solid numbers, they were not crazy numbers

 

Now you have Brisebois and Rafferty both showing very strong +/- and no one gives them any never mind

 

Even Juolevi's numbers are not horrendous, and Woo has not played 1 pro game

 

Yet everybody writes these guys off........I don't get it!

What?!

 

Bieksa already had 39 points as a 23 year old on the AHL as a fighting, tough as nails physical D man who wasn’t picked for his offence.

 

Eder already had 22 NHL games under his belt at 20 years old and had a 37 point season in the NHL when he turned 22.

 

At 21 and 22 years old, Tanev had 54 NHL games stint as a call up and was already developing as a premiere defensive guy.

 

No one is writing off our current prospects, but in no way are they trending as the next coming of our next defence corps.  
 

Brisebois turns 23 next week.  He hasn’t broken 4 goals and 18 points in the AHL.  Rafferty is 25 with 2 NHL games total. Edler was playing a significant role in his first Stanley Cup final at that age with 300 NHL games under his belt and had already averaged 37 points over three NHL seasons.

 

There is no reasonable statistical comparison between the two groups of guys.  Even if there were, just because Tanev defied all odds to make an excellent career, it doesn’t mean that Ashton Sautner will do the same.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Provost
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3 hours ago, Provost said:

 Even if there were, just because Tanev defied all odds to make an excellent career, it doesn’t mean that Ashton Sautner will do the same.

 

Still arguing a point no one made I see.

 

Are you performing in a small production of Wizard of Oz perhaps?

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6 hours ago, Provost said:

What?!

 

Bieksa already had 39 points as a 23 year old on the AHL as a fighting, tough as nails physical D man who wasn’t picked for his offence.

 

Eder already had 22 NHL games under his belt at 20 years old and had a 37 point season in the NHL when he turned 22.

 

At 21 and 22 years old, Tanev had 54 NHL games stint as a call up and was already developing as a premiere defensive guy.

 

No one is writing off our current prospects, but in no way are they trending as the next coming of our next defence corps.  
 

Brisebois turns 23 next week.  He hasn’t broken 4 goals and 18 points in the AHL.  Rafferty is 25 with 2 NHL games total. Edler was playing a significant role in his first Stanley Cup final at that age with 300 NHL games under his belt and had already averaged 37 points over three NHL seasons.

 

There is no reasonable statistical comparison between the two groups of guys.  Even if there were, just because Tanev defied all odds to make an excellent career, it doesn’t mean that Ashton Sautner will do the same.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Provost

 

My comparisons were merely for the fact that the Canucks of years ago, did bring guys up.....

This regime does not seem to do that

Both Brisebois and Rafferty have excellent =/- and that is totally ignored

and it seems if the players do not score 40 points, you have no interest, nor can you see their contributions

There age has nothing to do with it, as I doubt Benn would show that well  in the "A"

Let's see what Juolevi can do........Gerry Cheever's was a rotten practice goalie, but was a pretty good playoff goalie

Just saying!

As for Sautner, every time I have watched him play up, he has played well and has not cost the Canucks a thing, in terms of GA

Never mind Woo, who has not even played a game in pro, and is already being tagged 

I am just saying, Benning has been shy to experiment........

 

That is all...........time for you to take your blood pressure meds!

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16 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Provost

 

My comparisons were merely for the fact that the Canucks of years ago, did bring guys up.....

This regime does not seem to do that

Both Brisebois and Rafferty have excellent =/- and that is totally ignored

and it seems if the players do not score 40 points, you have no interest, nor can you see their contributions

There age has nothing to do with it, as I doubt Benn would show that well  in the "A"

Let's see what Juolevi can do........Gerry Cheever's was a rotten practice goalie, but was a pretty good playoff goalie

Just saying!

As for Sautner, every time I have watched him play up, he has played well and has not cost the Canucks a thing, in terms of GA

Never mind Woo, who has not even played a game in pro, and is already being tagged 

I am just saying, Benning has been shy to experiment........

 

That is all...........time for you to take your blood pressure meds!

I'm not sure what you mean by that?

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23 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

You know

 

Keven Bieska/Alex Edler/Chris Tanev all came up to the Canucks from the Farm team at pretty much the same time

 

and all though they had good solid numbers, they were not crazy numbers

 

Now you have Brisebois and Rafferty both showing very strong +/- and no one gives them any never mind

 

Even Juolevi's numbers are not horrendous, and Woo has not played 1 pro game

 

Yet everybody writes these guys off........I don't get it!

Jan, I think this is the direct initiative behind Benning creating a true Farm system, with exceptions to players like EP, QH, and possibly Rathbone,.   Time can be more rewarding to let more physically apt players develop to their best opportunity to make it to the NHL Level an stick.

Joulevi, Woo, Breisbois, Rafferty,.  even apart from the absence of Tryamkin,. To have them at their mature best, to defend against some of the leagues strongest is a true advantage.

 

just because players spend a little more time on their game elsewhere, does not mean their game is not good enough..  but because they are possibly more physically attributed.. it’s best to let that mature muscle and mindset build.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, SilentSam said:

Jan, I think this is the direct initiative behind Benning creating a true Farm system, with exceptions to players like EP, QH, and possibly Rathbone,.   Time can be more rewarding to let more physically apt players develop to their best opportunity to make it to the NHL Level an stick.

Joulevi, Woo, Breisbois, Rafferty,.  even apart from the absence of Tryamkin,. To have them at their mature best, to defend against some of the leagues strongest is a true advantage.

 

just because players spend a little more time on their game elsewhere, does not mean their game is not good enough..  but because they are possibly more physically attributed.. it’s best to let that mature muscle and mindset build.

Give them an opportunity and let them succeed...they can't be worst than Larsen and Weber, who were given opportunity...and Poo

Edited by Pete M
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10 hours ago, SilentSam said:

Jan, I think this is the direct initiative behind Benning creating a true Farm system, with exceptions to players like EP, QH, and possibly Rathbone,.   Time can be more rewarding to let more physically apt players develop to their best opportunity to make it to the NHL Level an stick.

Joulevi, Woo, Breisbois, Rafferty,.  even apart from the absence of Tryamkin,. To have them at their mature best, to defend against some of the leagues strongest is a true advantage.

 

just because players spend a little more time on their game elsewhere, does not mean their game is not good enough..  but because they are possibly more physically attributed.. it’s best to let that mature muscle and mindset build.

And I am all for that....

But at the same time, why sign Benn?

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3 hours ago, Pete M said:

Give them an opportunity and let them succeed...they can't be worst than Larsen and Weber, who were given opportunity...and Poo

You do realize there's reasoning for letting plugs absorb all that vitriol ('poo') on what are likely to be struggling teams, in tough, rebuilding years, rather than prospects you'd hope have a long term future with the club... right?

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Posted (edited)

Any chance Big Nik(& the Diamonds) have shaken hands with JB in agreement..but they've also agreed not to make it official until after the play-ins are done?

 

Easy to see how this could prove distracting to the D-men who are playing for a slot/contract.

 

edit: with the COVID-crunch..maybe two yrs at 2.8, or around 3 at 2.5

Edited by Nuxfanabroad

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3 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

And I am all for that....

But at the same time, why sign Benn?

Playoff depth?  a vet with great insight?

lets not forget that we probably let Tanev go, and Edler after that.

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6 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Any chance Big Nik(& the Diamonds) have shaken hands with JB in agreement..but they've also agreed not to make it official until after the play-ins are done?

 

Easy to see how this could prove distracting to the D-men who are playing for a slot/contract.

 

edit: with the COVID-crunch..maybe two yrs at 2.8, or around 3 at 2.5

Zero chance. Things don't work like that in real life.

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34 minutes ago, CanuckCup2022 said:

Zero chance. Things don't work like that in real life.

I ride to work on a Unicorn..just sayin

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Sorry Sam NIk signed 1 year extension with Avtomobilist! Chances are he never wears the scowling orca again.

 

 

Boooourns!

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Posted (edited)

Dhaliwal :-

 

"Agent Todd Diamond : Nikita could not wait any longer, the risk was too high for him, he has not played since February. The Canucks can not do a deal right now due to cap issues & they do not want to add a 1 way deal right now."

 

That's how bad FA's signing kicks in. Having said that this is a problem of Tryamkins own making

Edited by Fred65

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2 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Dhaliwal :-

 

"Agent Todd Diamond : Nikita could not wait any longer, the risk was too high for him, he has not played since February. The Canucks can not do a deal right now due to cap issues & they do not want to add a 1 way deal right now."

Argh. That’s very frustrating news. 
So frustrating. 

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While super disappointing as I was really hoping to see him prowling our blueline beside Hughes one day, this really isn’t surprising.
 

If anything it makes sense for him. The next NHL season isn’t going to start before January. With the plan for an 82 game NHL season Next year I expect the season wont end until May/June. So it’s reasonable to assume he could get in a full season in the KHL and then sign in March/April with an NHL team once’s his season In The K is over. 

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Spitfire_Spiky said:

While super disappointing as I was really hoping to see him prowling our blueline beside Hughes one day, this really isn’t surprising.
 

If anything it makes sense for him. The next NHL season isn’t going to start before January. With the plan for an 82 game NHL season Next year I expect the season wont end until May/June. So it’s reasonable to assume he could get in a full season in the KHL and then sign in March/April with an NHL team once’s his season In The K is over. 

He doesn't have that option as RFA.  He will not be allowed to play this coming season unless his KHL contract has an out-clause that allows him to opt out early (doubtful).  To be allowed to play in the NHL this coming season, he has to be signed at the latest about a quarter into the season (don't know the dates yet).  In the past RFAs had to be signed by 1 December to be allowed to play.  

The recently approved CBA MOU sets a tentative start date to next season for 1 December.

 

Edited by mll

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