Nikita Tryamkin | D

[Junkyard Dog]

Just go after Zadorov. 

[Nave]

Very disappointed he won't be playing with us. Looks like he will be in Russia his whole career. 

[JM_]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

See the edit.

 

ED, expiring Hughes, Pettersson, Edler, Hamonic etc.

maybe I just need a drink, the Jake thing was a real downer, was hoping for some good news to cling to 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

I believe Tryamkin’s side when they say that the offer from the Canucks wasn’t high enough to make it financially worthwhile for him to come to Vancouver.

 

The question remains, what was the offer? And what was the asking price (that would have made it worthwhile for Tryamkin to sign).

 

The highest paid KHL defencemen last season had salaries of ~$1M USD.

 

Russian tax is 13%.

 

So, a take home of ~$870K USD for the very highest paid KHL Dmen.

 

We don’t know what Tryamkin got on his new KHL deal, but it likely wasn’t over $1M (unless he’s going to be the KHL’s highest paid defenceman next season, which seems unlikely).

 

If we assume the highest tax rate in Canada at roughly 50%, then an Canucks salary of $1.75M is roughly equivalent to a KHL $1M salary.

 

Of course, Tryamkin likely wouldn’t pay the full 50% to taxes. If he maintained foreign status (less than 183 days residency), his rate would be probably be lower (I’m not sure about Russia-Canada tax treaties). If he had signing bonuses, those usually only get taxed at 15% for foreign players. And he could put a portion of his salary into RCAs, which he’d then only pay 20% on. So his effective tax rate in Vancouver could easily be a lot less than 50%.

 

So what does it all mean?

 

Well, I’d think that the rumoured salary demands in the $1.5-2M range seem in line with what Tryamkin felt he would need in Vancouver, to make it financially worthwhile to come over, versus what he’s getting paid in the KHL.

 

And the Canucks weren’t willing to pay him that.

 

So, the rumoured Canucks offer of just over $1M is probably accurate.

 

You could say that the Canucks lowballed him.

 

Or, they felt it was fair value (I can actually get behind that argument, to a degree, as Tryamkin doesn’t really deserve an offer based on any NHL comparables, given how long he’s been away, so a low ticket, one year deal is somewhat defensible).

 

However, given Tryamkin’s situation, you’d think that if the Canucks really wanted to get him signed, they’d be able to step up a few 100k and offer him something that actually paid him better (as far as take home) than his KHL salary.

 

(I suppose you could also say that, if Tryamkin really wanted to be an NHLer, he’d just take the financial hit for one season, and then bet on himself being about to earn more the next year, and the rest of his career.)

 

What I don’t see here is any reason to think Tryamkin was being greedy and asking for more than what made sense for him, based on what he could get in Russia. Or that he was just using the Canucks for negotiation purposes, and never intended to sign here. Everything he and his agent have done the past year has suggested they wanted to be back in the NHL (with Vancouver) for the 2021-22 season.
 

Seems like the Canucks just had a “walk away” number, and so did Tryamkin, and that number was probably somewhere in the $1.5-2M range (as reports have suggested). Canucks wouldn’t come up to that number, and Tryamkin wouldn’t accept anything less (as that would require him taking a financial loss, compared to what he probably gets by staying in the KHL).

[deus.ex.makina]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Does that add up to you?

 

$1-$1.5m is a-ok but we'd have to 'clear cap' to pay him $1.5-$2m...?

 

Seriously?

Don’t tell me that we missed out a guy like Tryamkin for 2M ?

i just don’t want to believe it. If its true, and if Benning finds some cap relief to re sign Edler....i hope we fire him really soon to save the team from a complete steps back. 

[hockeyking]

 

 

12 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

I believe Tryamkin’s side when they say that the offer from the Canucks wasn’t high enough to make it financially worthwhile for him to come to Vancouver.

 

The question remains, what was the offer? And what was the asking price (that would have made it worthwhile for Tryamkin to sign).

 

The highest paid KHL defencemen last season had salaries of ~$1M USD.

 

Russian tax is 13%.

 

So, a take home of ~$870K USD for the very highest paid KHL Dmen.

 

We don’t know what Tryamkin got on his new KHL deal, but it likely wasn’t over $1M (unless he’s going to be the KHL’s highest paid defenceman next season, which seems unlikely).

 

If we assume the highest tax rate in Canada at roughly 50%, then an Canucks salary of $1.75M is roughly equivalent to a KHL $1M salary.

 

Of course, Tryamkin likely wouldn’t pay thH

 

And the Canucks weren’t willing to pay him that.

 

So, the rumoured Canucks offer of just over $1M is probably accurate.

 

You could say that the Canucks lowballed him.

 

Or, they felt it was fair value (I can actually get behind that argument, to a degree, as Tryamkin doesn’t really deserve an offer based on any NHL comparables, given how long he’s been away, so a low ticket, one year deal is somewhat defensible).

 

However, given Tryamkin’s situation, you’d think that if the Canucks really wanted to get him signed, they’d be able to step up a few 100k and offer him something that actually paid him better (as far as take home) than his KHL salary.

 

(I suppose you could also say that, if Tryamkin really wanted to be an NHLer, he’d just take the financial hit for one season, and then bet on himself being about to earn more the next year, and the rest of his career.)

 

What I don’t see here is any reason to think Tryamkin was being greedy and asking for more than what made sense for him, based on what he could get in Russia. Or that he was just using the Canucks for negotiation purposes, and never intended to sign here. Everything he and his agent have done the past year has suggested they wanted to be back in the NHL (with Vancouver) for the 2021-22 season.
 

Seems like the Canucks just had a “walk away” number, and so did Tryamkin, and that number was probably somewhere in the $1.5-2M range (as reports have suggested). Canucks wouldn’t come up to that number, and Tryamkin wouldn’t accept anything less (as that would require him taking a financial loss, compared to what he probably gets by staying in the KHL).

1) I believe dahliwal already said Tryamkin salary is 1 mill tax free.

2) Theres also the 50% salary escrow which next year and this year there will be no kickback.

 

Canadian taxes is 42% which is 420,000 so that is 1.4 mill canadain. Since there is a 50% escrow it would mean for tryamkin to make the exact same amount in the nhl as khl is 2.8 mil caphit for 2 years.

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by hockeyking

[Nucksownyou]

1 hour ago, Convincing John said:

Wow, how can you stick up for Benning when he has a 4 goal scoring, can’t take no for an answer forward making more than what you figure Tryamkin is worth? I love how Benning lovers are all, NBD.... but if he was signed for +2M you’d all be jumping around playing air guitar. 

I love how you Benning haters label me a Benning supporter because I don't automatically trash Benning for every single thing he does. Stop overrating Tryamking.

[Fanuck]

29 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

 

Seems like the Canucks just had a “walk away” number, and so did Tryamkin, and that number was probably somewhere in the $1.5-2M range (as reports have suggested). Canucks wouldn’t come up to that number, and Tryamkin wouldn’t accept anything less (as that would require him taking a financial loss, compared to what he probably gets by staying in the KHL).

There's a lot of speculation in this thread and with the recent re-signing in the KHL I'm sure the speculation will continue to run rampant.

 

That said, if his agent is saying that Tryamkin didn't think it was worth it financially to come over for the term/dollar amount I hope they understand fully that they are also leaving dollars on the table in the form of any contract extension that would be available if Tryamkin did indeed prove his worth in the league.  Maybe you feel undervalued by a certain percentage for years 1 or 2 of your signing, but certainly if you prove you belong in the NHL we've seen there are no shortage of NHL GM's out there ready, willing, and able to overpay for contracts at any price point (and yes, this is assuming that the cap will eventually go back to what it was pre-pandemic).   Thing is, you'll never get an extension or a UFA offer worthwhile if you never prove yourself in the first place. 

 

[fanfor42]

6 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

There's a lot of speculation in this thread and with the recent re-signing in the KHL I'm sure the speculation will continue to run rampant.

 

That said, if his agent is saying that Tryamkin didn't think it was worth it financially to come over for the term/dollar amount I hope they understand fully that they are also leaving dollars on the table in the form of any contract extension that would be available if Tryamkin did indeed prove his worth in the league.  Maybe you feel undervalued by a certain percentage for years 1 or 2 of your signing, but certainly if you prove you belong in the NHL we've seen there are no shortage of NHL GM's out there ready, willing, and able to overpay for contracts at any price point (and yes, this is assuming that the cap will eventually go back to what it was pre-pandemic).   Thing is, you'll never get an extension or a UFA offer worthwhile if you never prove yourself in the first place. 

 

This is an excellent point ^

[Sell.the.team]

More top notch asset management from JB and Co!

[drummer4now]

Meh there is still a chance in 2 years after that would be the final nail in the coffin/thread.

[gameburn]

2 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Honestly, Benning supporters should just take the L on this one and move on. 

 

We have now seen Markstron, Toffoli, Tanev, and Stecher leave, Gaudette traded, Tryamkin allowed to walk, and the common denominator in it all is the cap mismanagement of Benning, overpaying a bunch of players and giving them ntc that, in the current environment, dont need to be full ntc to make the player unmovable.

 

Our roster is terrible overall, we are at the cap max, there is many millions of dead money, and that is with our two best players still on ELC contracts. 

 

Cant wait to see the contracts handed out to Edler and Sutter.

Do you really think fans will put up with them re-signing Edler? He has been as bad this year as he was 3 years ago, in some games, much worse.  And not getting any younger either which means the flaws in his game are sure to get increasingly worse. Footspeed, fatalism about his ability to get to pucks, bad pinching (with no footspeed to get back into the play) and PENALTIES.  He has always been prone to inconsistency, but this year's play suggests that he is really past it now.

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

1 hour ago, hockeyking said:

 

 

1) I believe dahliwal already said Tryamkin salary is 1 mill tax free.

2) Theres also the 50% salary escrow which next year and this year there will be no kickback.

 

Canadian taxes is 42% which is 420,000 so that is 1.4 mill canadain. Since there is a 50% escrow it would mean for tryamkin to make the exact same amount in the nhl as khl is 2.8 mil caphit for 2 years.

 

Apologies, I’m out and posting on my phone, so I can’t really look everything up right now.

 

But if memory serves, escrow for 2021-22 was capped at 20%, not 50%.

 

This season, you could get to something around 50% if you combine escrow and deferrals, although the deferred salary will be repaid (I believe in annual payments over the next 2-3 years).

 

I don’t think there’s deferred salary next year. But again, don’t have everything in front of me.

 

As for $1 million “tax free,” there aren’t tax free salaries in the KHL. Russians pay 13%. Sometimes, salaries are reported as the after tax figure, but they aren’t tax free. So, it’s possible Dhaliwal meant to say one million after tax, but that would likely make Tryamkin the highest paid defenceman in the entire KHL, which I’m not sure I’d believe until I see it.

 

And I don’t think Tryamkin would pay full top Canadian tax rate. Between foreign status, possible signing bonuses (taxed at only 15%), use of financial instruments, and a good accountant, he could probably get his effective rate down to something closer to 30%.

 

I really don’t think he’d need much more than a $2M NHL salary to beat whatever he’s getting in the KHL, even after you take escrow into account, and the tax rates, Canada vs. Russia.

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

54 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

There's a lot of speculation in this thread and with the recent re-signing in the KHL I'm sure the speculation will continue to run rampant.

 

That said, if his agent is saying that Tryamkin didn't think it was worth it financially to come over for the term/dollar amount I hope they understand fully that they are also leaving dollars on the table in the form of any contract extension that would be available if Tryamkin did indeed prove his worth in the league.  Maybe you feel undervalued by a certain percentage for years 1 or 2 of your signing, but certainly if you prove you belong in the NHL we've seen there are no shortage of NHL GM's out there ready, willing, and able to overpay for contracts at any price point (and yes, this is assuming that the cap will eventually go back to what it was pre-pandemic).   Thing is, you'll never get an extension or a UFA offer worthwhile if you never prove yourself in the first place. 

 

100% agree. 
 

I think it’s shortsighted on Tryamkin’s part, and likely costs him career earnings over the long term (and certainly delays his opportunity to cash in on a rich NHL deal).
 

He’d probably make more by taking a one year deal with Vancouver, even at something near league minimum, and then look for a bigger payday, once he had the 2021-22 NHL season under his belt, and NHL GMs viewed him with more certainty.
 

You didn’t quote this part, but I actually said something similar in my earlier post:

 

“I suppose you could also say that, if Tryamkin really wanted to be an NHLer, he’d just take the financial hit for one season, and then bet on himself being [able] to earn more the next year, and the rest of his career.”

[Drakrami]

1 hour ago, Fanuck said:

There's a lot of speculation in this thread and with the recent re-signing in the KHL I'm sure the speculation will continue to run rampant.

 

That said, if his agent is saying that Tryamkin didn't think it was worth it financially to come over for the term/dollar amount I hope they understand fully that they are also leaving dollars on the table in the form of any contract extension that would be available if Tryamkin did indeed prove his worth in the league.  Maybe you feel undervalued by a certain percentage for years 1 or 2 of your signing, but certainly if you prove you belong in the NHL we've seen there are no shortage of NHL GM's out there ready, willing, and able to overpay for contracts at any price point (and yes, this is assuming that the cap will eventually go back to what it was pre-pandemic).   Thing is, you'll never get an extension or a UFA offer worthwhile if you never prove yourself in the first place. 

 

Reality cant be more bloody obvious. Tryamkin would rather stay in Russia than play for the Canucks (Especially when we are probably going to offer him 1-2mill AAV). Once he becomes UFA, he will see if he can land a NHL contract with another team. The point you say he is forego future contract potential. Not fully, players who play evidently well in KHL gets decent contracts coming to the NHL like Dadonov and Gusev. 

[Coconuts]

3 hours ago, Fanuck said:

There's a lot of speculation in this thread and with the recent re-signing in the KHL I'm sure the speculation will continue to run rampant.

 

That said, if his agent is saying that Tryamkin didn't think it was worth it financially to come over for the term/dollar amount I hope they understand fully that they are also leaving dollars on the table in the form of any contract extension that would be available if Tryamkin did indeed prove his worth in the league.  Maybe you feel undervalued by a certain percentage for years 1 or 2 of your signing, but certainly if you prove you belong in the NHL we've seen there are no shortage of NHL GM's out there ready, willing, and able to overpay for contracts at any price point (and yes, this is assuming that the cap will eventually go back to what it was pre-pandemic).   Thing is, you'll never get an extension or a UFA offer worthwhile if you never prove yourself in the first place. 

 

That's the surprising part. Even if the Nucks did lowball him a little, there's money to be made in the NHL if he were to show well, whether with the Canucks or someone else. Taking a small hit and betting on himself could have gotten him quite the payday. 

 

If he signs elsewhere as a ufa in a couple years I doubt he's going to be getting a big top4 money contract after years of nothing but KHL play. 

[khay]

Bye Nikita.  So if I understand correctly, Tryamkin will not be a Canucks property anymore?

 

The big guy didn't have enough desire to play in the NHL. 

 

Would have been a good addition but at least it's good to have the certainty (no Tryamkin) and plan ahead.

 

Rathbone and Juolevi will fill the roster spots next season.

 

We will need to find one, maybe two RHDs for next season.

 

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

8 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

sure thats a reasonable look at it. But I'm still left wondering, why not sign him now and clear the cap later. If you know e.g., that you're going to do that with a buyout, there's no need to ask Nik to wait. If its clearing via trade then sure I can see Nik not wanting to wait around for that if some trade falls through. But if it was via buyout there's no reason for Jim not to sign Nik now.

 

 

I should not have come back to this thread............*&^^%$ me!

 

So this stinks of JB trying to manipulate the truth..............and if Diamond is telling the truth, they yeah, I totally agree with you Jimmy

 

IMO, I an starting to believe JB is lacking credibility in what he says.............and that is playing out time and time again!

 

My problem, is......how do we believe what he says? Does he think Diamond will not protect his own credibility?

 

So, no JIm did not offer him the contract that Tryamkin had asked for..............

 

And, again &^%&**&$$E Me!, Benning had all season to figure this out.....................

 

Benning is a liar, and is just trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes

 

So, doesn't the Tanev and Taffoli stories, sort of underline exactly how Benning is operating...............

 

Unless Benning is covering for Aqualini..................does Aqualini really want his customers thinking that his GM is a liar?

 

Or at best, trying to deceive his customers?

[lmm]

58 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

That's the surprising part. Even if the Nucks did lowball him a little, there's money to be made in the NHL if he were to show well, whether with the Canucks or someone else. Taking a small hit and betting on himself could have gotten him quite the payday. 

 

If he signs elsewhere as a ufa in a couple years I doubt he's going to be getting a big top4 money contract after years of nothing but KHL play. 

Do you also find it surprizing that Thornton, Spezza and Hamonic took less money?

Tryamkin did not enjoy his time in Vancouver and neither did his wife.

We respect Hamonic for choosing family over money

we respect Horvat for being a good family man

Maybe the dollars would not feel so comforting if his wife was unhappy to be brought back to Vancouver

Maybe they like the city he plays in and the player he plays with more than he did in Vancouver

[Gurn]

3 hours ago, The.Burrowers said:

More top notch asset management from JB and Co!

I agree, I didn't want Tram. back either.