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For me I’m not a JB lover or hater I just weigh up whether I agree something was good or bad, and try not to throw in hindsight but judge it from the information known at the time.

 

 (For example LE - term to long and price to high but not ridiculous. Based on his previous season and the FA market at the time it was a reasonable move that in hindsight has become a dumpster fire) 

 

I’m also frustrated that on this forums most people see negotiations as zero sum (which can be true) but often the best negotiators seek to build consensus and find mutual commonality, and when you add in people and contracts to the mix trying to screw someone over may make you win that deal but probably cost you others, (there is a human element) I much prefer integrative bargaining where you can address needs and fine solutions that are mutually acceptable for all. I’m really against the ‘winning’ ‘losing’ mentality of trades and signings. 
 

however sometime things are zero sum and being able to read the room and the people negotiating is a key skill

 

 

with the information coming out regarding interest at the deadline - if JB had no intention of signing him I’m sure we would have seen the rights moved out. 
 

with NT while he could have been using the Canucks as a leverage in his KHl talks the actions over a sustained period of time seem to me that he did want to come back to the Canucks.

 

with this being the situation how could we end up with the worst outcome of nothing in return for the rights and the player walking.

 

it looks as if there was a minimum threshold which NT was unwilling to go below which is fair enough, it also looks like JB was looking to avoid being in a situation where he has to cap dump with no leverage especially with QH and EP to sign.
 

Looks like JB was willing to give NT what he was after, but with caveats of moving space first. NT looks like he just wanted to sign in the line and not get messed around and like last season scrabble last minute for a KHL contract and reduce all potential bargaining power. 

 

Knowing the history of last season I would have thought JB at this point probably should have just penned a contract and maybe made a deal to keep that under wraps for the time being (but at least had it signed and binging) but it looks like he was asking NT for trust (which given the history of the organisation with NT you can see why NT wouldn’t have to much trust and probably could see history repeating it’s self)

 

my take is the JB probably didn’t read the room, and he clearly valued not being up against/over the cap as tight as it would have been with the signing, as he must have and idea of moving players without having to give even more away due to cap crunch

 

if JB manages to do a lot of off season work and jettison some players and get decent team together for next season that probably would be vindicated, however if he doesn’t then I will look back at this as a JB mistake

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In my estimation, this is just another loss for the organization because of the ridiculous contracts we signed in free agency. It's the same financial squeeze that led to bending over on the Gaudette trade to acquire a player signed for league minimum.

 

That said, this isn't that big of a loss. Tryamkin will likely be a bottom-pairing depth guy, and if it's between spending on him or Hamonic, I'd choose Hamonic for sure. But it would be better to have the money for both. And for the organization, another lost asset (however small) is just another log on the fire.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the COVID outbreak played into this too. That looked really bad on the organization as a whole. Nikita had a young family, and already had doubts about playing in Vancouver. The way that unfolded might affect our ability to attract talent this offseason as well.

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Nikita looked really good his one year here.... but we were busy building a winning culture with WD, doing things the 'right way'.... all he wanted to do was come and play in the NHL, and they got hung up on a stupid AHL assignment.  Sometimes you need to give special treatment in special circumstances.  There is a huge cultural difference with him.  He has no interest in moving to Utica and getting sent back and forth.  JB dropped the ball on this one.  NT had so much raw talent and ability and its a crying shame we couldn't get him more playing time in Vancouver.  

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If JB really wanted him here, he should have been able to get it done. Obviously it was not a priority and I wonder what is instead. Podkolzin and Tryamkin would surely have been a nice wrecking combo for next season and immediately added an enormous amount of size and strength. Too bad.

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4 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I guess I'm just tired of hearing reasonable excuses for not signing or losing talent. I'd like to hear more about keeping talent. 

This is just it Jimmy!

 

We seem to be hemorrhaging talent

 

To me, it is a total mis-management of Cap and there by talent (Assets)

 

And I just want to remind the viewing audience, that for the first 5/6 years, I was a loud Benning supporter

 

But there just seems to be too much of this.........like......... every year

 

So when I look back, I now ask the question why did we invest in Myers, Toffoli, and Miller, if we are not in a win now mode? Why were we not committed to a complete rebuild, and why did we not sell more assets we could not afford, and why were we going after OEL, and why did we say that we wanted Tryamkin? 

 

IMO, Benning is hired to have those answers..........and not excuses

 

It started with Eriksson and it became another straw, and then another one, and then another one........................etc.........

 

And what even confuses me more, is why is Aqualini going along with it?

 

Aqualini needs a strong hockey oriented President, and to take a step back from anywhere near Hockey operations. He needs to do that....................

 

And we (the fans) need a clear message and a clear direction, from that president..............

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5 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

This is just it Jimmy!

 

We seem to be hemorrhaging talent

 

To me, it is a total mis-management of Cap and there by talent (Assets)

Jan; I am not sure that you can lay all the blame on JB for what has happened this year. I do believe JB had full intentions of signing Toffoli but Covid hit and the flat cap was also a big consideration in how they moved forward. A lot of teams are facing similar issues and some are going to lose some very good pieces in the expansion draft as well. I would chalk this season and all of the juggling that occurred on many teams to an outlier and hope that next season will see the team make strides towards being a CUP contender again.

 

Podkolzin should help along with more mature and hopefully stronger versions of Hughes and Pettersson. I will reserve any judgment of the direction the team is headed until after the draft and free agency period has passed.

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

This is just it Jimmy!

 

We seem to be hemorrhaging talent

 

To me, it is a total mis-management of Cap and there by talent (Assets)

 

And I just want to remind the viewing audience, that for the first 5/6 years, I was a loud Benning supporter

 

But there just seems to be too much of this.........like......... every year

 

So when I look back, I now ask the question why did we invest in Myers, Toffoli, and Miller, if we are not in a win now mode? Why were we not committed to a complete rebuild, and why did we not sell more assets we could not afford, and why were we going after OEL, and why did we say that we wanted Tryamkin? 

 

IMO, Benning is hired to have those answers..........and not excuses

 

It started with Eriksson and it became another straw, and then another one, and then another one........................etc.........

 

And what even confuses me more, is why is Aqualini going along with it?

 

Aqualini needs a strong hockey oriented President, and to take a step back from anywhere near Hockey operations. He needs to do that....................

 

And we (the fans) need a clear message and a clear direction, from that president..............

There's a lot of things I like about Jim, his drafting, how he treats players, and I do think he's an honest guy. But he's also made too many misses for me to continue to want him running the show. I don't believe he's going to be able to make any significant additions to the team for next year. I hope I'm wrong but I have no faith he can pull off whats needed to take this team to the next level. 

 

I just don't buy the needing to wait to clear cap space argument. We all know Jake is gone, and likely Loui. There's your cap and more for Nik. What worries me is I don't think he's lying, he just didn't prioritize this signing, which bothers me a lot. 

 

Edited by Jimmy McGill
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32 minutes ago, Kootenay Gold said:

Jan; I am not sure that you can lay all the blame on JB for what has happened this year. I do believe JB had full intentions of signing Toffoli but Covid hit and the flat cap was also a big consideration in how they moved forward. A lot of teams are facing similar issues and some are going to lose some very good pieces in the expansion draft as well. I would chalk this season and all of the juggling that occurred on many teams to an outlier and hope that next season will see the team make strides towards being a CUP contender again.

 

Podkolzin should help along with more mature and hopefully stronger versions of Hughes and Pettersson. I will reserve any judgment of the direction the team is headed until after the draft and free agency period has passed.

You know KG

 

I was on Benning's side for so long, but it is like the kid that is always in trouble and saying it is always someone elses fault

Too many straws for me! I can't seem to forgive him any more.

 

I just wonder why other teams are not running into the same issues of the same size????? I mean sure Tampa may, but they have a cup to show for their fortune.

 

Benning has this mess and nothing to show for it!

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I just don't buy the needing to wait to clear cap space argument. We all know Jake is gone, and likely Loui. There's your cap and more for Nik. What worries me is I don't think he's lying, he just didn't prioritize this signing, which bothers me a lot. 

 

Usually I support Benning but he has lost me on this one. I am just thinking - Benning is in Texas watching U18 world championship. Maybe he was too busy watching games and evaluating potential draft players, and considered Tryamkin's signing as something not important, something which could wait..? Just trying to find some reason for his questionable contract negotiation.

 

By the way, Benning needs 2-week quarantine after coming back from the USA so he is not going to be with the team until the regular season end.

Edited by Stierlitz
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16 minutes ago, Stierlitz said:

Usually I support Benning but he has lost me on this one. I am just thinking - Benning is in Texas watching U18 world championship. Maybe he was too busy watching games and evaluating potential draft players, and considered Tryamkin's signing as something not important, something which could wait..? Just trying to find some reason for his questionable contract negotiation.

 

By the way, Benning needs 2-week quarantine after coming back from the USA so he is not going to be with the team until the regular season end.

I don't know Stierlitz, I think Benning really dropped the ball on this one. Really not impressed. 

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And the thing that makes this missed signing so inexcusable is the fact that Tryamkin has so many of the qualities the Canucks don't have and need on their roster now, even if it was just for the bottom D pairing.  The only box that Tryamkin didn't tick off was RHD, otherwise, their defence could sorely use a player of his skill set and stature.  Woo is their only future hope for a D man with a combo of grit and some skill, but he just doesn't come close to filling the need they have for another D man with size, at least not close to how Tryamkin would have filled it

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30 minutes ago, Stierlitz said:

Usually I support Benning but he has lost me on this one. I am just thinking - Benning is in Texas watching U18 world championship. Maybe he was too busy watching games and evaluating potential draft players, and considered Tryamkin's signing as something not important, something which could wait..? Just trying to find some reason for his questionable contract negotiation.

 

By the way, Benning needs 2-week quarantine after coming back from the USA so he is not going to be with the team until the regular season end.

I know this is just an assumption but if this was the case then he is not qualified to be a general manager of a professional sports team. He should stick to being a scout.

 

Being "too busy" for a potential signing as a GM is absolutely laughable, especially when even a few weeks ago it seemed like Tryamkin's camp was open to a return to Vancouver. 

 

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6 hours ago, joe-max said:

If JB really wanted him here, he should have been able to get it done. Obviously it was not a priority and I wonder what is instead. Podkolzin and Tryamkin would surely have been a nice wrecking combo for next season and immediately added an enormous amount of size and strength. Too bad.

Yet he wanted Pearson here for another 3 years at 3.25 mill per. 

 

:picard:

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19 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

This is just it Jimmy!

 

We seem to be hemorrhaging talent

 

To me, it is a total mis-management of Cap and there by talent (Assets)

 

And I just want to remind the viewing audience, that for the first 5/6 years, I was a loud Benning supporter

 

But there just seems to be too much of this.........like......... every year

 

So when I look back, I now ask the question why did we invest in Myers, Toffoli, and Miller, if we are not in a win now mode? Why were we not committed to a complete rebuild, and why did we not sell more assets we could not afford, and why were we going after OEL, and why did we say that we wanted Tryamkin? 

 

IMO, Benning is hired to have those answers..........and not excuses

 

It started with Eriksson and it became another straw, and then another one, and then another one........................etc.........

 

And what even confuses me more, is why is Aqualini going along with it?

 

Aqualini needs a strong hockey oriented President, and to take a step back from anywhere near Hockey operations. He needs to do that....................

 

And we (the fans) need a clear message and a clear direction, from that president..............

Two years,   possibly 3 of flat cap has not helped any matters , it’s truly putting those teams, like us, at a huge disadvantage of being able to sign the core players we have at price point.

The one Team that will have a clear advantage over all other teams in the immediate future is Seattle,.  If done right, they hold every card to out perform LasVegas for the next 3-5 years.

 

Covid has upset everything..  and as much blame still goes back to signing players like LE and Sutter,.  
 Performance of the player regarding a high price point and non movement in those contracts they bring ,  has to be held accountable for.

ANYONE in the REAL WORLD, has to live up to the contracts they sign regarding the work and performance they bring.  Some situations bring on litigation for poor work and workmanship.   
Perhaps that is something that needs to be looked at.

If a player can go to arbitration before a contract is signed to find a comparable performance level of his play with that of another player.

Then it should be fair for an organization to hold a player to a level of performance that he supposedly brings.

I have found it shocking that a player like Loui Eriksson  in this day and age can stroll into the Canucks office in the Summer, and pick up his LARGE signing bonuses with the performance of work he has brought.

Its SHOCKING, it’s UNETHICAL, it’s UNREASONABLE, 

all contracts signed should be guaranteed ,

but only by being based on a criteria associated with performance based.

 

FLOATERS  have monetarily killed the progression of this team,  handcuffed us to the goal posts. and in Tryamkins case,  stymied  progression to this Team.

 

Teams need protection over players that rapidly decline after signing contracts above a certain money number point.

 

it’s needed.  

 

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7 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Teams need protection over players that rapidly decline after signing contracts above a certain money number point.

 

it’s needed.  

I like your proposed changes Sam but the players association would never go for that.

 

 

 

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51 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

 

 

Teams need protection over players that rapidly decline after signing contracts above a certain money number point.

 

it’s needed.  

 

ownership refused to get rid of bad contracts when they needed to.  Luongo could have been bought out (like Vinny Lecavalier was by Tampa) and we wouldn't be suffering through this recapture penalty right now.  We refused to cut our losses.  Loui could have been moved last summer, his contract was favorable to a cash strapped team like the Coyotes.  The fact that JB was unwilling to add anything (as confirmed by LE's agent) is a testament to the attitude that is trickling down from ownership and/or management on their refusal to eat a sunk cost.  If you look at all the wheeling and dealing the Leafs, Lightning, Rangers, Blackhawks (to name a few) have done the last 10 years to navigate bad contracts / situations, as compared to the Canucks, the difference is night and day.  

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