What Doug Wilson said

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Lemieux was arguably the very best player since Howe or Beliveau.

No kid coming is worth losing a franchise over believing Mario2 is coming to magically win a cup on his own.

Mario scored 100 points as an 18 year old rookie and the Penguins never made the playoffs.

The kid was the NHL All-Star game MVP as a rookie.

Mario scored 245 goals and added 379 assists for 624 points over 5 of his first 6 NHL seasons in which Pittsburgh never made the playoffs.

823 points over his first six NHL seasons on a team so bad they could not make the post season -but once.

The one year where Mario took his team to the playoffs in his first six years Mario scored 85 goals and added 114 assists for 199 points.

No kid coming can be the greatest player since Mario and save a team from the verge of multiple bankruptcies.

Fans around here lose one season and they want to tank for the dream of a chance at a first pick.

What they may not think about is that it would take another six years to get back into the playoffs for that dubious distinction and the team may have folded by that point in time.Pittsburgh were playing to half empty rinks the year Mario was drafted.

Add in the fact that even if you were bad enough to have a chance at a first pick that pick would never qualify to even tie Mario's skates.

There is only a couple of players in NHL history that even compare to Mario and a player like him may not come again for generations upon generations.

The other thing was the Penguins were not just 3 season being removed from back to back PT's. In fact, the season right before they "tanked" they only finished with 2 more wins. They may have tanked but they didn't have a team that was going to finished outside the bottom 5 anyways,

There was also no lottery back then, so as long as they finished last they were 100% going to get mario. Imagine if they did that only to lose out on the lottery. There likely wouldn't be a team in PITs if that happened in 84

[ice orca]

Ask how tanking has gone in Pittsburgh....Mario Lemieux, Sidney Crosby, Malkin....oh ya they have a couple of Stanley Cups to their credit too.

That's Bettmans league up here we the cash cow league.

[Benchsplinters]

i'm glad doug wilson finally alluded to it. his team, he said might have 'tanked' in a bid for a high pick next year but as he also said, the sharks are still too good. so it's nice to know that in the gm circles this subject gets broached.

jb cannot be so sure of his canucks being too good still. he will be (as are many supporters) hoping for a bounce back year. this will be plan a i guess. he cannot not have a plan b. if the team does not bounce back, i'm guessing (hoping) he moves as quick as he has in this off season. it has been well discussed already. off load vets, pick up picks/prospects and 'tank.'

so, the very many 'holier than thou,' can now realize that this 'tanking' concept is within the mindset of the brass. and if the brass can think it so can the fan. and i for one am a fan. i remember watching cyclone taylor on sat nights at pacific coliseam watching the canucks, i go back a way. don't insult me about the way the game of hockey works. anyone who wants a 1 and out should go and watch ballet. you are happy to get your a** kicked?!! absolutely disgusting. believe me no one who has played this game is EVER happy to go 1 and out. so a little pain and then some gain and then the realistic expectation to go deep into the playoffs.

when is a loss a win? i will be counting the losses this year and looking forward to the possibility of getting barzal or ??. most of the players we will want on the team in 3 yrs will be playing in the minors. what do i care about a bunch of well paid vets suffering through a bad season? you think you need to be a loyal fan. what a laugh you so called 'true blue.' these guys are paid professionals. bobby orr is the only player i have heard of to tear up a contract because he didnt feel he played well enough. he is the exception. the possibility of drafting another home town kid with talent is what i look forward to not a 1 and out.

As far as I am concerned tanking is like quitting and is a coward's way out

If I pay 200.00 to see a hockey game, I do not want to even hear about quitting or tanking. The fastest way to lose credibility with fans is to make them feel cheated. How can anyone hold their head up knowing they quit and cheated.

If you think you can get what you want by cheating, have at it buddy. Feel proud of yourself that you feel being morally corrupt to get what you want is right. Great character trait?

[Canucks1219]

you need to think. these guys don't need to try to lose. it will be very difficult for them to win games. as the season goes on and the hopes of a 1 and out fade, that is where the so called tank takes place.

1: realize no 1 and out

2: ship vets out for prospects/picks

3: amass less points

4: pick higher in the draft

if you want to take the time you will see that the odds are with the higher picks. sure some don't work out but them lower round gems are few and far between. mostly pie in the sky. read some of the other posts and review the history of the penguins for one.

i don't want 'your team' to lose. you are absurd. try to convince all those flames owners about 'their team' when they hung on to the end. very little assets remained for their rebuild.

this is doug wilson. i think i read it in the sun or province on-line. able to find this: he seems to be inferring that if they did not have such a good team, they would try for a higher pick. oh dear, he is not a fan

"I can understand when people say there are different types of rebuild," he said. "We're not going to finish last to try and draft people first or second. This is not something this franchise can do, because we already have some good players in key positions. You're not going to see us with 50 points next year -- we're too good a team for that."

In my opinion, that's a pretty bold statement to make considering this new team (roster/coaches) has yet to play a single game in the NHL together. I get that we've lost Kesler, are coming off of a disaster of a season, and have gotten less experienced overall. We have yet to see how the players respond to the new staff and/or gel together with new linemates. There are too many variable going into next season to make claims that this team will suck or find it difficult to pull out wins. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not ruling anything out. It's just a little premature to make bold predictions about the team's performance so soon.

[pomorick]

Never tank! There does come a time for every franchise to acknowledge that it is time to play the young prospects and not go for the win now at all costs scenario. The Canucks are at that exact state right now. Linden and Benning know it. Bringing in Bonino, Vey, Sbisa and Dorsett are a step in that direction and then we have six first round forward prospects: Jensen; Gaunce; Horvat; Schinkaruk: Virtanen and McCann plus Fox and Cassels who are all pushing hard for spots.

Going with the best of the young guns may be tanking or it may be that the young guys make the step up and we not only challenge, but defeat the LA, San Jose and Anaheim teams that went this route before us.

[TheXFactor]

As far as I am concerned tanking is like quitting and is a coward's way out

If I pay 200.00 to see a hockey game, I do not want to even hear about quitting or tanking. The fastest way to lose credibility with fans is to make them feel cheated. How can anyone hold their head up knowing they quit and cheated.

If you think you can get what you want by cheating, have at it buddy. Feel proud of yourself that you feel being morally corrupt to get what you want is right. Great character trait?

I hate tanking greatly as much as any faithful fan but...

1. If a team tanks to get better picks and those picks pan out and lead to a cup, its not quitting but rather planning ahead.

2. Cheating happens ALL the time. From diving to whining embellishment and to tanking. For many players, a win is a win, a cup is a cup. A guilty conscience won't weigh down everyone.

3. Tanking can't be proved or disproved so its hard to lose the "credibility" of the fans when the VAST majority can't tell between a bad team and a tanking team.

4. MANY people get what they want by cheating. Its the simple truth. I don't condone it but that's just the way things are.

5. It is a terrible character trait. These days however, so many people are morally corrupt one way or another (politicians) that its more or less a socially acknowledged norm.

While I don't accept tanking and cheating in general, I also see why people would do such a thing. Understanding both sides of the argument is important.

[nuck nit]

Next year is:

Sbisa's fourth NHL year.

Dorsett's eight NHL campaign.

Vey's fourth pro season.

Bononos fourth NHL season.

These guys are all seasoned professionals,pomorick.

The prospects will try hard but they will all play in the AHL or junior leagues next season.

So,one or no prospects and a mainly veteran line-up to challenge for a playoff position is the plan.

[BI3KSA-]

I think the quote "If you want a team that sucks and tanks cheer for buffalo or Edmonton" is the most used line on this message board lately. What about teams like Pittsburgh,Chicago,LA,Colorado,TB ect that were all bad for a lot of years, got high draft picks and became the NHL's elite?

Tanking isn't about the lack of effort put in by the players, it's the team management puts on the ice and/or how they are coached(putting guys on the PP and PK that shouldn't be there ect).

Pitt, Colorado and Tampa aren't elite and LA's only high draft pick that was instrumental in how elite they are now is Doughty. You don't need to tank to be elite. Look at Detroit and Boston for example. You don't need to tank, you just need to draft well.

[DownUndaCanuck]

Benning has said he wants the prospects to be groomed in a winning culture. If you want a team that sucks and tanks cheer for buffalo or Edmonton

[Junkyard Dog]

Next year is:

Sbisa's fourth NHL year.

Dorsett's eight NHL campaign.

Vey's fourth pro season.

Bononos fourth NHL season.

These guys are all seasoned professionals,pomorick.

The prospects will try hard but they will all play in the AHL or junior leagues next season.

So,one or no prospects and a mainly veteran line-up to challenge for a playoff position is the plan.

A part of the plan was to bring younger players in and we have started that. We also added some depth.

Vey is 23 and a seasoned rookie that has developed really well. Vey has a better chance than most of our prospects to make the team.

Sbisa is 24 with 250+ NHL games under his belt.

Dorsett is a legitimate 4th liner.

Bonino's has really good cap and is a good fit in this transitional stage.

Benning said if a rookie can prove to him that they can play at the next level then he would make room for them.

[granpappy]

As far as I am concerned tanking is like quitting and is a coward's way out

If I pay 200.00 to see a hockey game, I do not want to even hear about quitting or tanking. The fastest way to lose credibility with fans is to make them feel cheated. How can anyone hold their head up knowing they quit and cheated.

If you think you can get what you want by cheating, have at it buddy. Feel proud of yourself that you feel being morally corrupt to get what you want is right. Great character trait?

that's a bit extreme. you should re-read all the posts' here, especially the pro-draft pick posts. the draft is a part of the game and you are saying that any team that picks say top 5 is a coward a quitter a cheater, morally corrupt and suffering with flawed character traits. you sound like a passive aggressive 5 yr old. as i said, if you read through all the posts, i don't see how you can come up with a post like yours. i am endorsing a strategy that i believe would work. it doesn't involve anyone quitting. i have never once said that. i said if this team is not looking good to make the playoffs then i, myself would be a trader at the deadline for picks/prospects, bring up some young guns, get them some NHL experience and if that got us a top pick then, outstanding.

[MattyM]

so sick of all these threads about tanking.

Stop "cheering" for my team if you want them to lose

^^^ yup.

So tired of this tanking crap.

[Wilbur]

I hate tanking greatly as much as any faithful fan but...

1. If a team tanks to get better picks and those picks pan out and lead to a cup, its not quitting but rather planning ahead.

2. Cheating happens ALL the time. From diving to whining embellishment and to tanking. For many players, a win is a win, a cup is a cup. A guilty conscience won't weigh down everyone.

3. Tanking can't be proved or disproved so its hard to lose the "credibility" of the fans when the VAST majority can't tell between a bad team and a tanking team.

4. MANY people get what they want by cheating. Its the simple truth. I don't condone it but that's just the way things are.

5. It is a terrible character trait. These days however, so many people are morally corrupt one way or another (politicians) that its more or less a socially acknowledged norm.

While I don't accept tanking and cheating in general, I also see why people would do such a thing. Understanding both sides of the argument is important.

Heh, I can't look at #5 and think: Buffalo...tanking, Islanders...not tanking. Then realize Buffalo could end up with the first 2 picks in the draft. If their players stay loyal through the losing, watch out for Buffalo in 2023!

[Pears]

Heh, I can't look at #5 and think: Buffalo...tanking, Islanders...not tanking. Then realize Buffalo could end up with the first 2 picks in the draft. If their players stay loyal through the losing, watch out for Buffalo in 2023!

More like 2018 if they somehow get McDavid and Eichel.

[EmployeeoftheMonth]

this is out of the San Jose Mercury News:

"I can understand when people say there are different types of rebuild," he said. "We're not going to finish last to try and draft people first or second. This is not something this franchise can do, because we already have some good players in key positions. You're not going to see us with 50 points next year -- we're too good a team for that."

so he can understand there are different types of rebuilds. he says the sharks cannot try to finish last and the reason he gives is because they still have a very good team. so if he has thought about it, he must have given it a consideration. i would hope that jb, being the thorough gm we all hope he is, has also assessed hsi team and at least calculated the chances of where they might pick next year. he has made moves. there are some here that have literally guaranteed these moves will pan out. again unbelieveable. why play the games then. we will make the playoffs. all you confident homers, how much of your own cold hard cash would you put down on it? really, how much? i'm sorry to infer that anyone might be a gambler. i'm not. it seems here that you are or are not a fan based on the choice of direction you may wish for the team to go on their way to hopefully winning a SC. maybe the size of bet you would be willing to make on making the playoffs next yr might be a better indicator and make it a little more clear how big a fan you really are

This is largely all rhetoric and garbage.

Again though; that quote in no way has anything to do with tanking. There's not even a slight implication about it. There is the flat out statement that Doug Wilson said his team is too good to finish in a spot where they are going to draft first or second.

He's quite plainly talking about different kinds of rebuilds and while his team may be in a building mode that doesn't mean it has to...oilers itself to do it.In fact he's saying his team couldn't do that if it wanted to.

[Wilbur]

that's a bit extreme. you should re-read all the posts' here, especially the pro-draft pick posts. the draft is a part of the game and you are saying that any team that picks say top 5 is a coward a quitter a cheater, morally corrupt and suffering with flawed character traits. you sound like a passive aggressive 5 yr old. as i said, if you read through all the posts, i don't see how you can come up with a post like yours. i am endorsing a strategy that i believe would work. it doesn't involve anyone quitting. i have never once said that. i said if this team is not looking good to make the playoffs then i, myself would be a trader at the deadline for picks/prospects, bring up some young guns, get them some NHL experience and if that got us a top pick then, outstanding.

There is a difference between infusing the line up with youth and tanking. Perhaps you're leaning towards the former? Because most of the people giving you a hard time here would not say that trading a Higgins, Hamhuis, Bieksa, etc at the deadline if the Canucks are out of it for valuable pieces of the rebuild is tanking. Tanking is holding a fire sale for all your vets and "developing" your youth by throwing them to the wolves.

Only the most dillusional here think that the 2011 core can win the Canucks a cup. But you don't burn it purposely to the ground because if something rises out of those ashes, chances are it's not going to be a phoenix. Benning doesn't have the luxury of choosing which pieces from the 2011 core he can trade with all the NTC's. What he can do is make the team as competitive as he can without handcuffing himself with lousy long term contracts and, with every transaction, methodically make this team younger. But only if the value is there. I'd rather the Sedins, Hamhuis, Bieksa, etc all retire as Canucks than to give them away at bargain basement prices.

[granpappy]

sounds reasonable wilbur

[Vansicle]

I watched the special.

The GM denied tanking.

The coach never coached again in the NHL and took the fall.

The franchise was all but lost.

The fans wore paper bags on their heads.

The GM and owner should have been tossed out of the NHL.

Exactly. The Pens were all but a dead organization. They did what the had to do to "save the team", according to the coaching staff. This situation is nowhere near as desperate. If the Canucks were in a position of being on the brink, and this was their way to save tue franchise, I wouldn't be opposed to saving the team, but Mario is a once in a lifetime player. The story in Vancouver is not nearly as desperate. And the draft pick is not the second coming of Mario.

[nuck nit]

A part of the plan was to bring younger players in and we have started that. We also added some depth.

Benning said if a rookie can prove to him that they can play at the next level then he would make room for them.

Miller.Vrbata,Sbisa,Dorsett and Bonino are not young players as they are seasoned,veteran professionals.

Of course, Benning has to say that. He has to inspire hope and drive in them while providing competition for his veterans.

[Apple Juice]

You realize that Benning is the first GM that Vancouver has hired that actually was a head of scouting right for another franchise right?

Players like Shea Weber, Johan Franzen, Jamie Benn, were passed over by other teams. Yes getting a top 5 pick greatly helps your chances. But in the past two drafts both Shinkaruk and McCann could easily be steals. Hopefully we're going to get more players like that in the draft. And less guys like Pat White, Jordan Schroeder, and Grabner.

Grabner on this team would be a top 6 winger for us if we didn't let him go. It was either him or Mason Raymond as both were virtually the same type of player. Very fast skaters and both have a great shot. Unfortunately, we chose Raymond cuz of his 25 goal season and was expecting him to repeat the same offensive output, which obviously never happened.