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What if Gillis wasn't managing the team last year


Dal Colle

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The return we got for Lu was trash. We got a 3rd line center, a goalie project with injury problems who has a history of embarrassing himself and his teammates in pressure situations, retained salary, and exposed ourselves to cap recapture penalties. The retained salary and cap recapture EASILY cancel out any value we got back.

Bottom line was both goalie trades were absolutely idiotic.

Gillis was in exactly the same boat Benning was in with Kesler..A disgruntled player who really only had one destination in mind..Both GMs we're handcuffed to a degree..We didn't get huge returns for either player..

Your reaction to the Schneider trade is always over dramatic...At least ,wait and see what kind of player Horvat is going to be...

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He's good but you can get similar guys in UFA pretty easily. The upside to him is more than cancelled by Gillis screwing the team for the rest of Luongo's contract by agreeing to retain salary. ANY cap retention is moronic when a team has a compliance buyout.

We only retain like what .800 k in lu's salary. It's not that bad when you look at the return we got along with it. Idk if there would've been a good 3rd liner from free agency although brad Richards was an interesting name out there. Matthias is still a great 3rd line centre and I believe that he can produce along with other numerous other Canucks that had bad seasons last year

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Gillis was in exactly the same boat Benning was in with Kesler..A disgruntled player who really only had one destination in mind..Both GMs we're handcuffed to a degree..We didn't get huge returns for either player..

Your reaction to the Schneider trade is always over dramatic...At least ,wait and see what kind of player Horvat is going to be...

Trading Schneider wasn't an acceptable decision, regardless of return (especially for a draft pick). If it turns out to be as bad a trade as it appears, people will say I have the advantage of hindsight. Bottom line was it was a stupid trade by the worst GM we have ever had.

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We only retain like what .800 k in lu's salary. It's not that bad when you look at the return we got along with it.

Yes, it is. 800k can be the difference between Andrew Ebbett and Rafi Torres on the 4th line. Bottom line is retaining ANY salary is a terrible decision, especially on a long-term contract.

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Gillis was in exactly the same boat Benning was in with Kesler..A disgruntled player who really only had one destination in mind..Both GMs we're handcuffed to a degree..We didn't get huge returns for either player..

Your reaction to the Schneider trade is always over dramatic...At least ,wait and see what kind of player Horvat is going to be...

What's frack are you talking about..... We got McCann, Sbisa, Bonino and a 3rd rounder for Kes. That's a pretty huge return. This was like the spezza deal. Both Canucks and Sens got big returns that they were expecting and they got it

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Yes, it is. 800k can be the difference between Andrew Ebbett and Rafi Torres on the 4th line. Bottom line is retaining ANY salary is a terrible decision, especially on a long-term contract.

Who needs the 800 k anyways.... We got prospects that are waiting for their chance to play some hockey with the big boys. I'd rather retain the 800 k especially to a guy who's a franchise goaltender.

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What's frack are you talking about..... We got McCann, Sbisa, Bonino and a 3rd rounder for Kes. That's a pretty huge return. This was like the spezza deal. Both Canucks and Sens got big returns that they were expecting and they got it

Meh, only McCann excites me. Still, if he can become our future 2nd maybe even 1st line center, we did good on the trade, based on that alone. Bonino seems more like a temporary 2nd line center, while we wait for Horvat. Sbisa is a wild card, but from what I've heard he sounds like another Edler.

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Don't forget that we traded that 3rd rounder for Dorsett I believe. So we got McCann, Sbisa, Bonino, and Dorsett for Kesler. Not a bad trade overall, and could be a steal if Bonino can actually be our 2nd line center, Sbisa can be a #3 or 4 defenseman, Dorsett beats out Tostito for pugilist of the year, and McCann turns into Kesler 2.0.

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Another MG thread?

I never liked MG from the start, and guess what, I was blasted on cdc for that. Most on here called him a god, a gm legend, while some on here called him the best GM in Hockey. This board is full of so many hypocrites and bandwagoners it's ridiculous.

The one thing I can't deny was a couple very successful seasons during his tenure but I give most the praise to AV.

Where do you fit into this miasma of misery?

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They were kinda cautious moves.

The Kesler trade should have included the 10th overall pick. Bonino is roster player, not a 2nd line center until he proves it, Sbisa is a ho-hum young defender. I think it was a little cautious.

The Garrison move was cap space for Miller, Dorsett is another roster player and avoids having to use a prospect.

The Miller move was bold in my opinion, but even more bold and risky would have been to have Lack as the starter and a focus on the kids.

I'm really happy with the changes, but I would hardly classify Benning's moves so far as risky.

I wasn't trying to say he is being "risky". I was simply asking which moves in particular seemed overly cautious.

Signing a soon to be 34 year old goaltender seems a little risky to me, but we'll see. Linden Vey is also a coin flip, but I'll go with the fact that Benning knows a heck of a lot more about scouting players than I do. If Vey's AHL numbers mean anything there's something to be excited about.

I'm mostly happy with Bennings actions so far. He's asked every player who has NTC's if they would be willing to waive, (with the exception of Edler, looks like management wants to give him another shot with a new coach I suppose) which in itself is a bit of a risky move.

To come into a job like managing an NHL team you have 80? 100? different people under you to manage. From scouts to players to juniors to training staff, etc etc.

As far as the Kesler trade goes, yes Bonino and Sbisa are question marks. Sbisa more so, obviously. Clearly it would've been nice to have gotten that 10th overall, but Anaheim knew darn well they were the ONLY team that Kesler would go to, as Chicago didn't have the room. So to have gotten a player who's younger, cheaper, and had more points the year before (okay he scored 20 points on the PP with Getzlaf and Perry), is still a pretty great trade. Not to mention a 24 year old defencemen who knows he'll have to bring it to prove himself, and what I've heard is the steal of the draft in McCann at 24th. The potential upside for what we got in return for a player who was unhappy wearing a canuck uniform was well well worth the trade.

Risky? Maybe not. Overly cautious? I don't think so either. I would say his moves have been calculated thus far, with a vision in mind, of not just this year but years down the road.

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I find Benning a bit too cautious to be honest. Not saying it's bad but the cup winners eventually take some chances.

He is putting scouts into nearly every position he has filled so far.

He wants an honest assessment of the entire organization from multiple sources.

This is whats going on. No taking chances on outside the box candidates in any position so far. Player development and assessment experts in every position, so far. Its a good strategy for a new GM and also its one that enables long term success.

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Who needs the 800 k anyways.... We got prospects that are waiting for their chance to play some hockey with the big boys. I'd rather retain the 800 k especially to a guy who's a franchise goaltender.

We may not need it NOW, but it may be useful to get these prospects some help in a couple of years when they're ready to contend. No sense in wasting cap space when we could have just used our 2nd buyout.

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Don't forget that we traded that 3rd rounder for Dorsett I believe. So we got McCann, Sbisa, Bonino, and Dorsett for Kesler. Not a bad trade overall, and could be a steal if Bonino can actually be our 2nd line center, Sbisa can be a #3 or 4 defenseman, Dorsett beats out Tostito for pugilist of the year, and McCann turns into Kesler 2.0.

Don't forget that we also gave anaheim our 3rd rounder in 2015 in the kesler trade. Both the kesler and spezza trades were bad, but both teams were handcuffed due to the ntc. The kesler trade was better than the spezza trade, but really only the potential of McCann excites me. Bonino we'll see if he works out and sbisa was a cap dump for the ducks. He's been pretty terrible and ducks fans hated him and I don't see him part of our future.

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everybody talks from hindsight.....why don't they use their foresight and talk about the future of this team...

if hitler hadn't come to power, the population of the world would have been much higher...

if he canucks would have scored more goals than boston in game 7, we would have been s,c. winners

it will be interesting to see if what ever players who end up on the second line, can surpass kesler's line in points.

i think people dwell on hindsight because they have no foresight of their own....it takes two gm's to make a deal....

where as a cdc gm can make any trade they want.......

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We we would have got rid of Gillis sooner, we might still have 2 #1 goaltenders , a happy power forward mobile defense, and Never had TORTS period, because we would have had a GM that could stand up to the owners when they are going to something that stupid. And to all the Kessler haters, he gave his blood sweat and tears for this team for years and you all thought he was everything, now because management pissed him off so bad, he says I want a Ring, and I don't think I'm going to get it here, so make a deal. How many other stars in the last 10 yrs. have done the same thing. Do you hate them as much or do you understand that you have a small window to get one, and there comes a times you do for you, not your team for a change Do I like it hell no, but I am so sick of you loudmouths who want to rip him apart. if you were in his shoes, what would you do. You play to be a champions and he wants to be one like all 700 players in the league so SHUT UP about it

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What's frack are you talking about..... We got McCann, Sbisa, Bonino and a 3rd rounder for Kes. That's a pretty huge return. This was like the spezza deal. Both Canucks and Sens got big returns that they were expecting and they got it

I don't think it's a huge return at all..If the Canucks start losing this season,Benning will feel the heat for this trade..Benning wanted the distraction off of the team..

Spisa was a salary dump and is still a question mark..I think Bonino will be decent ,but not even close to a replacement for Kesler..and McCann is a few years away.

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Cdc way over rated Kesler. Most hockey insiders felt Benning won the trade. Kesler was a 40 point, minus 15 centre who was given crazy ice time.

And a Selke winning 41 goal season. I don't believe that you can speak for "most hockey insiders", perhaps the ones you listen to. No slight on Bonino, but until he proves he is as good as many here believe, then he isn't. Kesler has intangibles that are not going to be replicated by anyone on our roster.

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There are many ways we could've won and gotten a better record this year. If Mike Gillis wasn't managing this team then would've we made the playoffs... No one knows but IMO I think he should've been fired during last summer. He traded basically a future top

Goaltender for basically nothing( Sorry Horvat) although I do think that he'll be a good player just not sure whether he'll be better than Schneids. If Gillis was let go last season, we would've had not hired as bad as a coach like Torts.we were doing great at first but then a terrible meltdown. I would've never expected this from AV if he was still. In fact what if Gillis didn't fire AV, then he'll prob still have his job in safe hands right?!!!!??!! Like a series sweep against the kings, I would've given any coach a second chance especially a coach that has brought this team to the playoffs consecutive years. If Gillis wasn't managing I'm guessing most of you will agree that this team will still be a playoff contender and a cup contender. But no Gillis still managed and ultimately lead to the teams failure....

If everything else was the same, I don't really believe a GM change in the 2013 offseason would have changed the results for the 2013-14 season. I think we'd still have hired Torts (due to ownership's influence). And if we'd had the same run of injuries and puck luck, we'd still have seen the team crash in 2014.

Any GM inheriting the team in Summer 2013 would have been inheriting cap issues (based on the new CBA and the reduction). They'd also be inheriting a goalie crisis (and a recapture clause that had made trading Luongo even more difficult).

The 2013-14 season was always going to be about "surviving" the year and then hoping to do well enough to still be around to make the necessary changes this Summer (2014). If Gillis was still here, he'd have very likely made as many moves as Benning/Linden have (possibly even more by the sounds of what he said in his last couple interviews). And if Benning/Linden (or another management team) had come in last year, they'd have likely run things very similarly to how Gillis did (and tried to somehow "survive" 2013-14 and just wait out the year until they could make major moves in 2014).

And without Gillis, we probably don't get Stanton, Richardson, and Santorelli in 2013-14 (at least we don't get all of them). We get other players, of course, to fill the holes in the roster, but it's unlikely we do much better. Whoever was managing the team in 2013-14 was going to have a difficult time filling out the roster and staying under the cap.

The team was just in a terrible cap position in Summer 2013. The CBA and cap reduction had hit Vancouver especially hard. One can argue that this was the legacy of some poor planning by the Gillis regime (I'd argue from Summer 2011 onwards--and whether firing Gillis in 2011-12 would have kept us a contender might be the more interesting question, although that would have been firing a guy who'd just taken the team one win short of the Stanley Cup). But if we're talking just Summer 2013, I don't really think a different management team yields much different results in Vancouver for 2013-14.

Not unless they had some magic voodoo with injuries.

Not unless they convinced the Aquilinis that Torts was the wrong choice for this team. And I really don't believe anyone would have changed ownership's mind on this (in Summer 2013). We saw all year how great Torts was at snowing people in the press. I imagine he was equally convincing behind closed doors during the interview process. Hell, he sold me on his "honest" approach (at least for a while). I somehow doubt that a new GM would have been able to tell the owners that "their guy" was a crappy choice.

So a new GM in Summer 2013? One who inherits the same roster, the same CBA, the same trade market (post "Luongo rule"), the same coaching staff (Torts), and the same run of injuries and PDO woes?

That GM probably gets the same results as Gillis. Maybe a couple spots better, if lucky. Maybe worse. But almost a certainty that they miss the playoffs.

But a different management team (and different choices) during the crucial period between 2011-2013? I think there are some GMs who could have made the necessary choices to keep this team competing with the league's best (and maybe they'd have even won us a Cup by now). However, it would have been almost impossible to fire Gillis that early on (ie: Summer 2011 or during the 2011-12 season), especially given what he'd accomplished up to that point. And only with hindsight can we see how many mistakes were actually made from the GM's chair after the 2011 Finals (at least I certainly didn't see all of them when they happened).

EDIT: typos/grammar

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And a Selke winning 41 goal season. I don't believe that you can speak for "most hockey insiders", perhaps the ones you listen to. No slight on Bonino, but until he proves he is as good as many here believe, then he isn't. Kesler has intangibles that are not going to be replicated by anyone on our roster.

Lol.

So by your logic Cheechoo and Heatley are worth a lot?

Stop living in the past!

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