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[Discussion] Should We Go All Out For The Cup?


DownUndaCanuck

  

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Dude, I want to see how we make it through November before seriously thinking about this. As said earlier, the Sedins, Tanev, Edler, Bonino, Vey and Miller are giving me hope that we can be underdogs with our current roster. Sort of like the Ranger's were last season.

But if we appear to be on the better side of competitive against the Cali teams, Chicago and Boston, I wouldn't mind seeing some moves made. Not really too much cap space to play with, again we so got screwed by Luongo, 800k retained salary is egregious for the current pennies Florida gave us and it really limits us in trying to add quality depth. I think we're ok depth wise at forward with Jensen and Shinkaruk, but they're not really a guarantee especially with their current lacklustre AHL performances. Defensively Stanton, Weber and Corrado are not inspiring for making a cup run. If Edler and Sbisa can show more offensively, I think adding a veteran D would be the way to go.

With our limited prospect pool I really wouldn't like to see any of them traded at this point. But if it means adding a young sniper with first or second line potential, I wouldn't mind seeing either Cassels or Gaunce go. And people are going to hate but I wouldn't mind seeing Horvat go either. This hypothetical would be so much better if we had Nichushkin instead.

But yea, this thought experiment would be interesting to revisit after November.

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Noooo..... The reason being lies within the Colorado, Dallas, and Tampa games. We might be 7-3-0, but our record is misleading. We were destroyed in those games. We're a good team, but we're not even close to cup worthy yet. It'd be pointless to try to contend now when we know we can't. Wait and be patient. Our prospect pool isn't the greatest, but we have some real studs in there, and we can still build upon it.

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.....I'd like to see him move a couple of our prospects around to hopefully get a veteran depth forward who can score 15-20 goals, and a young future top-4 defenceman who would be a good depth guy.

Good teams win Cups on the fly while grooming young talent, there's no reason we can't trade say Virtanen, Cassels and Gaunce for a top-4 defenceman and a scoring winger.

.......it's not like we're selling the entire farm.

Benning attempted to snag Ekblad at the draft,IMO.

Now the stakes are higher and the asking price more as the teams jockey into December and then the trading deadline.

Conjecture trade is not happening or JB would have made it in June,already.

JB will look for that rare opportunity instead of diluting the future of the club.

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I know it would be risky, but what makes us think that our current prospect pool is good enough to win a Cup? Compare them to some very deep prospect pools like San Jose, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, LA etc. and our kids don't stand a chance. We lack elite talent on the farm and the only kids putting up decent points are Subban and Cassels, and they're both older than most of their competition. Meanwhile Horvat, Jensen and Shinkaruk aren't putting up amazing numbers in the AHL by any stretch of the imagination.

The question is, what gives us a better chance to win a Cup - complement our current stars who are still playing very well with a few extra pieces by trading away a couple of prospects, or hoping that our next wave of prospects is better than our current stars (and the future talent in the league)?

Personally I believe that the Sedins-Edler-Miller combination may be the best chance we'll have for a long time of winning a Cup. Benning doesn't have to go all in, but I'd like to see him move a couple of our prospects around to hopefully get a veteran depth forward who can score 15-20 goals, and a young future top-4 defenceman who would be a good depth guy. Good teams win Cups on the fly while grooming young talent, there's no reason we can't trade say Virtanen, Cassels and Gaunce for a top-4 defenceman and a scoring winger. We'll still have Horvat, Vey and McCann at center, and Shinkaruk, Jensen and Kassian on wing so it's not like we're selling the entire farm.

Virtanen cassells and gaunce aren't going anywhere. besides with elite goaltending the nucks have enough talent to make a deep run already. Elite tenders win cups come playoff time just ask the kings. you can have tons of offense and not do sqaut just ask the pens

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While I do not necessarily agree with the OP; winning the cup is no low reward...especially for this franchise which is starving for one.

Well I'm not saying winning the cup is a low reward. The very slight chance of winning a cup is low reward. As we've seen more often than not, the team that is the favourite to win the cup doesn't always do so.

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guys your forgetting its not just going to be a line up full of prospects in 2 years from now i see sedins gone but im sure benning can find some decent free agents to sign that can help the prospects. So no ways to trade the prospects. We need to retool slowly draft well,keep our 2nd rounders and hope benning can find us some gems. I mean look at bostons drafting from previous years benning was a huge part of that.

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guys your forgetting its not just going to be a line up full of prospects in 2 years from now i see sedins gone but im sure benning can find some decent free agents to sign that can help the prospects. So no ways to trade the prospects. We need to retool slowly draft well,keep our 2nd rounders and hope benning can find us some gems. I mean look at bostons drafting from previous years benning was a huge part of that.

Dude, the Sedins are not gone in 2 years. If they are, I'll eat my leg.

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Benning attempted to snag Ekblad at the draft,IMO.

Now the stakes are higher and the asking price more as the teams jockey into December and then the trading deadline.

Conjecture trade is not happening or JB would have made it in June,already.

JB will look for that rare opportunity instead of diluting the future of the club.

Exactly, Benning made a big play for the 1st overall (he probably would have drafted Reinhart though). Rumour has it he offered up Shinkaruk, our first rounder and a roster player as well for it and I'd be more than happy to have made that move. Shinkaruk is a 20 goal, 60 point winger at best. Our 6th overall pick of Virtanen is probably going to be the same.

Benning knows that our prospect pool lacks that elite talent which is why he went all in for the 1st overall, to either get us that future #1 defenceman or future #1 center. 20 goal scorers can be plucked off the free market agency easily, he's already nabbed one. However, you rarely get a shot at a franchise player like Reinhart or Ekblad and Benning knows it which is why he was willing to part with a Virtanen + Shinkaruk + more.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that our prospects are just that - replaceable top-6 forwards who are far from elite talents, and if you have an opportunity at getting one of them, you build your team around them and go all out for them. Right now we have two in the Sedins, and they may be the last time we have elite talent in our franchise for a very long time. This team doesn't look like it'll be getting a top 3 pick any time soon let alone two, and with the next draft being so deep teams are unlikely to part with a high pick that could end up being a McDavid, Eichel or Strome.

Instead of waiting another decade for an elite franchise player to be groomed in our organization, why not use the ones we've got now instead of wasting them? Build a contender around the Sedins, Edler and Miller.

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Honestly man,

The play offs are a crapshoot at best.

Chemistry luck, and a hot goalie are what carry you though

Once in a while a hot team like the kings comes around and makes the out come more predictable but for the most part the playoffs are decided by fate.

Currently we have chemistry, luck and a hot goalie, I'm not so certain changing the make up of the team actually increases our odds of winning.

I like this squad, let's see what they can do. They may surprise us if we let them.

The best way to be successful at anything is to have fun doing it, and this team appears to have a blast.

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Exactly, Benning made a big play for the 1st overall (he probably would have drafted Reinhart though). Rumour has it he offered up Shinkaruk, our first rounder and a roster player as well for it and I'd be more than happy to have made that move. Shinkaruk is a 20 goal, 60 point winger at best. Our 6th overall pick of Virtanen is probably going to be the same.

Benning knows that our prospect pool lacks that elite talent which is why he went all in for the 1st overall, to either get us that future #1 defenceman or future #1 center. 20 goal scorers can be plucked off the free market agency easily, he's already nabbed one. However, you rarely get a shot at a franchise player like Reinhart or Ekblad and Benning knows it which is why he was willing to part with a Virtanen + Shinkaruk + more.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that our prospects are just that - replaceable top-6 forwards who are far from elite talents, and if you have an opportunity at getting one of them, you build your team around them and go all out for them. Right now we have two in the Sedins, and they may be the last time we have elite talent in our franchise for a very long time. This team doesn't look like it'll be getting a top 3 pick any time soon let alone two, and with the next draft being so deep teams are unlikely to part with a high pick that could end up being a McDavid, Eichel or Strome.

Instead of waiting another decade for an elite franchise player to be groomed in our organization, why not use the ones we've got now instead of wasting them? Build a contender around the Sedins, Edler and Miller.

Definitely, though our prospects are better then ever, we do no yet have that successor to the Sedins.

I agree it was Reinhart he pitched for, hoping he would be our Henrik in 5 years. It's foreseeable that with all the good prospects we have now, Benn/Trev may go all in at this years draft to try and snag a top pick.

BTW I think Tallon blew it by not dealing their pick this year, they do not need more young, top talent. They need veteran talent to play with their young guys and show them how it's done. Ekblad isn't going to help FLA get out of the basement any more then that other......Gudbranson?...probably butchered his name oh well, is helping them.

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Our record is inflated with easy games so far, the three decent teams we beat were a) Eastern b.) Blues, who is a good match-up.

We need to win regularly against LA, Chicago, Anaheim, San Jose, Dallas, Nashville, Minnesota and Colorado to be considered 'contenders', or close enough to contenders to consider selling any futures.

No way we are there yet.

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Benning attempted to snag Ekblad at the draft,IMO.

Now the stakes are higher and the asking price more as the teams jockey into December and then the trading deadline.

Conjecture trade is not happening or JB would have made it in June,already.

JB will look for that rare opportunity instead of diluting the future of the club.

Meh, Cassels may never be an NHL player, Gaunce is a third liner most likely and Virtanen? Nobody is quite sure if he actually knows how to play yet, or if he's just a big guy bowling over kids on his way to the net. Lack of assists is a pretty good indicator there is something up in that department.

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Benning ....went all in for the 1st overall, to either get us that future #1 defenceman or future #1 center.

However, you rarely get a shot at a franchise player like Reinhart or Ekblad and Benning knows it which is why he was willing to part with a Virtanen + Shinkaruk + more.

I think fans can sense that Benning is capable and very willing to interchange pieces in the effort to become an elite club.

We just have to wait for the opportunities that get presented to management to see how fast they can transform the club into a legitimate contender.

He appears to be a fair negotiator and trading partner so an opportunity of another team's misfortune will have to present itself for Benning to significantly upgrade the roster without losing a coveted Canucks prospect,IMO.

If another 1.5 years go by and Benning has not added an elite piece(s) to compliment the first line the thoughts of losing a Cassels or Horvat comes into the discussion.

Gillis could not build a second line in three/four years and the team was literally falling apart at the end of his tenure.

Let's give Benning another full year before we even speculate about losing the most capable components of the team's future.

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Well I'm not saying winning the cup is a low reward. The very slight chance of winning a cup is low reward. As we've seen more often than not, the team that is the favourite to win the cup doesn't always do so.

Not so sure about that.

I heard they would finish their contracts , play a couple years for MODO, and retire.

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Well written.

Enthusiastic and positive!

But off track.

I suppose there are (at least) three key things, if not 4, that would have to happen to elevate us to contender status. Even then that's contender, not all in...

1) Bo Horvat (or someone) will have to come in as a big BULL defensive centre. He would have to be effective, and be capable of tackling strong match up responsibilities against guys like Getzlaf, Kopitar, Thornton, Toews, Pavelski, Carter and Backes. Its a big ask! (And no offense to Brad Richardson, whom I love and competes like a bastard, but he's a couple of fries short of a happy meal in regards to size! But he is superb as either a 3rd or 4th line centre.) Chances > 2 in 5?

2) Kassian has to become a dominant match up problem! This is potentially the most likely of the items. He has all the tools. Every good SCF team (like a stud PMD) seems to have a bruising PF who can also skate, score and other teams just cannot handle. BTW, when this happens, I will take back every bad thing I had to say about the Hodgson trade! And with Kass it's just about cranking up the intensity a few notches. Chances 2 & 1/2 or 3 out of 5?

3) Jensen or Shinkaruk will have to be called up successfully IMO. Fly up and down the ice as another scoring from the 2knd or 3rd line. Where Kassian blows people away in front of the net with size, in corners and passing > one of these guys jumps in and out of lanes, behind defenses. He'll be a constant outlet scoring goals with speed and puck skills. What I am saying is not just Kassian, but another serious scoring threat to spread match ups and open the floodgates in close games. But this time a match up problem based on speed. That speed will also be the front end of an emerging break out game. Chances 1 out of 5? Actually, Vey could be this option as well? It could be Vey, or even better it could be Vey PLUS Shinkaruk? Lets call it 3 out of 5??

4) By far the hardest; we need a legitimate puck wizard with speed from our back end. This team is crying for a legitimate PMD. A guy who can undress a fwd pressuring the point on the PP. Beat them 1 on 1. A guy who can beat fore-checkers to the puck (like Tanev). But also put it on his stick and blow past them to break up ice if they first pass is covered. All our guys are pretty good D. They do not offer this level of puck skill and speed. And unless we sell the farm, it will come by trade for a guy at least about as advanced as Vey, except on D. So even if acquired, its a bit of a question as to how soon they bump our level of play. Sorry, I'm giving this no more than a 1 chance in 15 to happen, and be playing at a level to make us a contender this year.

I suppose I am more confident in our youth than the OP? There is scope where some of our youth might fill legitimate roles. And am still saying we need a PMD.

Hey, people will question if that's enough to match up to the size of Cali teams? IMO it will be! Even we still are smaller. The added size of Horvat, the presence of Kassian, plus the speed / puck skills of Shinkaruk or Vey, and a PMD have the potential to become match up problems California then must to adjust to. Willie is dictating match ups, not asking the Twins to beat whomever lines up against them like Torts did. Even if its 230 lb Getzlaf or Thornton. You know, the Twins can play D against such guys. But they get beat up. And suddenly are not available for what they do best. Which is offensive shifts. What I am saying is we simply need to craft more match up problems for other teams.

In Summary we first need a significant boost from our youth! Like LA a few years ago, when they had two or 3 young guys (Doughty, Voynov, Quick) advance their play to the point they elevated the whole team... And last year for that matter as well. When Pearson, Toffoli and Muzzin burst onto the scene. And then IF you get that boost, and still have some left over prospects > then we can trade for the key piece (my opinion a PMD) we still do not have in our system!

We probably also have to add a deadline veteran; perhaps a big tough match up D man. That is easier than a PMD, so suggested last. But these are only things you do, if we get that boost from youth first. I suppose that would then be all in?

Look, it is all possible? But a big ask!

My opinion still differs from the OP in that we only do this if we get this boost from our prospect pool. As opposed to us selling the farm because our prospect pool is not good enough. And more likely we will just have to wait till it is.

So basically, we need Kesler, Jovonoski and Muzyn back!

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I heard they would finish their contracts , play a couple years for MODO, and retire.

The Canucks franchise had a decade to build around the twins as they carried this team on their backs.

Benning is cognizant of the remaining,limited time he has been given with the twins.

Fortunately,he appears to be more capable than previous managers of the club.

The twins have more than earned the right to do whatever they choose to do after their contracts expire.

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The Canucks franchise had a decade to build around the twins as they carried this team on their backs.

Benning is cognizant of the remaining,limited time he has been given with the twins.

Fortunately,he appears to be more capable than previous managers of the club.

The twins have more than earned the right to do whatever they choose to do after their contracts expire.

Totally agree,

I have no problems with them wanting to retire after their current deals.

They are right up there with Linden in my books,

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Lol. Look bud, it's 10 games into the season and sure, things look good now but let's wait and see until February when the teams played California dozen times, Ryan Millers played 40 games, and where the teams at with injuries because they are inevitable. This team is NOT a cup contender. Anything can happen, but the Canucks don't have the depth or defenceman to truly compete.

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