We should not fear NHL expansion

[Mackcanuck]

Expansion is surely coming to Vegas and I think it is time.

The last expansion in the League was in the year 2000 coming up at 15 years ago.

Most players drafted in 2000, retired 5 years ago

Watching the WJC yesterday, I watched in awe the talent that can come into the league,and

every participating country has players that could make the NHL

Canada's program has been supplying the NHL for decades, but look at Sweden, Russia, Finland,

USA, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Switzerland, Germany, etc..

All these Countries now have outstanding well funded programs putting out well trained young players every year, year after year.

Canada could probably put 4 competitive teams in

The USA, Sweden, Finland and Russia 2 competitive teams

The USA and Sweden consistently have 1st and 2nd round picks going on draft day now.

The USHL and NCAA are tremendous programs

I know that most of the players playing yesterday already have NHL contracts, what I am trying to get at is that the supply of outstanding quality athletes has improved so much since the last expansion 15 years ago that there may not be enough room for all these players to get an opportunity to play, let alone dilute the product.

Opening 23 or 46 new opportunities will get more of these skilled young players into the league.

There are plenty to go around.

[zombieksa]

I can probably think of 2 prospects in every franchise that could probably make the jump to the NHL and hold their own. The problem is that most of these players don't get a chance because teams fill a roster with proven NHL talent. This leads to a lot of players never actually getting their chance.

Could DeFazio be a decent 3rd line grinder in the NHL? Probably. But because of draft pedigree most 3rd lines are filled with previous 1st and 2nd round draft picks, so later round picks and undrafted FA's don't get a chance.

I especially like the idea of an expansion draft next year or the year after because every team gets a chance to get out of a contract the no longer need and expansion teams are still going to have to reach a cap floor.

"Hi Seattle, heard you need a starting goaltender and need to hit 45M on your roster. Well we currently have a silver medal winning olympian that loves the west coast."

People complain that prospects don't get a chance. This is the solution. Expansion means an influx of youth.

- It is good for the league in terms of money

- It is good for the players in terms of jobs available
- It is good for the cities who become represented in the league.
- It is good for the fans who get the opportunity to see new young talent enter the league in pretty much every market.

[LaBamba]

Imagine being a 20-25 year old millionaire in Las Vegas.

[Warhippy]

I DO fear expansion as a matter of fact/

Why you ask?

Because the talks of a team in Vegas, Kansas another in Texas and the talks of Seattle bother me. Seattle is the ONLY viable market that will pay year in and out where as the others are almost surely going to lose money. Like regularly.

And then the league will step in complain owners are losing money there will be another lockout to get costs down then Kansas city will somehow magically win the next Gretzky draft with Vegas getting the next Orr and the game will be further watered down by the antics of the between period topless show on ice in Vegas which will just further degrade the integrity of the sport.

Expansion will work but only IF done properly and seriously, I don't give two runny craps what anyone says. Vegas is not entirely viable as a consistent money making venture.

[Bill Sikes]

The mere fact that Neandrethals like John Scott can make an NHL lineup is proof that the league is overexpanded as is. Everytime you expand you add less talented players, slowing the game and making the league less elite.

[Ghostsof1915]

If you haven't noticed. The product already is watered down. The only reason some teams are higher in the standings is the loser point. It's great for players like Darren Archibald might get a regular 4th line duty with expansion. But it's going to mean the odds of us ever getting a 1st overall pick get worse. There is a finite amount of talent to draw on. So unless the UK and France, and Asia starts producing hockey players. There's no additional talent to draft from.

To use an NFL comparision. They have 32 teams. They have 128+ Division I teams in the NCAA. Yet in the NFL there's maybe what? A handful of elite QB's, a dozen good QB's, a dozen ok QB's, and 2-3 QB's that probably shouldn't even be in the NFL. That's from a system that has probably over 1000+ high schools, and kids starting football at a young age playing flag football.

Bettman and the owners have this crazy idea that Americans will watch hockey if it's in more US markets. The reality is. In the US hockey is not loved like it is here. If anything we're 2 teams over the maximum size of the NHL. Has LA turned into a hockey town after winning two cups? Nope. Winning two cups should be a bigger deal than landing Gretzky. Yet the two cups get lost in the LA smog.

Stop trying to make a square peg fit a round hole. Keep hockey in the markets that love it, and embrace it. Expand only to markets like Seattle who have a hockey culture already. Or bring it back to places like Quebec City. But don't expand for the sake of expansion fees.

[Red Light Racicot]

What Id really like to know is why the NHL is terrified of relocation?

If you insist on a likely disastrous experiment in the desert, why not at least relocate it from Phoenix so we don't replicate the problem and have an additional anchor dragging the league down?

[elvis15]

The mere fact that Neandrethals like John Scott can make an NHL lineup is proof that the league is overexpanded as is. Everytime you expand you add less talented players, slowing the game and making the league less elite.

That's exactly the player I was thinking of as an example. We've cut down on the neanderthals who can't skate in recent years, but I'm still ok with players like DeFazio being a replacement level NHL'er. Remember, less would mean guys like Sestito might end up in the AHL, but it's also a place they could play with more skill (since he has some talent) rather than being stuck as a 13th forward or more of a pure enforcer.

If we had the right balance of number of teams and salary cap, there wouldn't be as many veteran players being paid league minimum.There would still be a need for affordable contracts on ever roster so it would almost force teams to use more affordable options in young players as a result.

[Mackcanuck]

What Id really like to know is why the NHL is terrified of relocation?

If you insist on a likely disastrous experiment in the desert, why not at least relocate it from Phoenix so we don't replicate the problem and have an additional anchor dragging the league down?

$300M to $400M in expansion fees to the existing owners, none to be shared with the players as it is not considered HRR for some reason

2 expansion teams = $600M to $800M in expansion fees to existing owners

2 relocated teams = $0 to existing owners

The NHL Owners would much rather fold the weak market teams rather than move them to potential expansion Cities

[etsen3]

Maybe fans wouldn't be so wary of expansion if it wasn't to Las Vegas of all places. The best case scenario is that a team in Las Vegas merely survives. More likely is they will struggle. It's obvious this is more about image than it is about making money or finding a viable market. This has potential to be worse than Phoenix and Florida because people in Vegas actually have other things to do for entertainment.

[Baer.]

Maybe fans wouldn't be so wary of expansion if it wasn't to Las Vegas of all places. The best case scenario is that a team in Las Vegas merely survives. More likely is they will struggle. It's obvious this is more about image than it is about making money or finding a viable market. This has potential to be worse than Phoenix and Florida because people in Vegas actually have other things to do for entertainment.

Not to mention it would take a couple seasons for Vegas to sniff the playoffs, making it even more difficult to build onto an almost non-existing market. Seattle, I can get behind. Quebec city doesn't need a team unless Detroit or Columbus switches back to the west to even things out.

[D-Money]

I wouldn't mind seeing the expansion draft take a bite out of LA and Anaheim, who are ridiculously deep.

[smithers joe]

Maybe fans wouldn't be so wary of expansion if it wasn't to Las Vegas of all places. The best case scenario is that a team in Las Vegas merely survives. More likely is they will struggle. It's obvious this is more about image than it is about making money or finding a viable market. This has potential to be worse than Phoenix and Florida because people in Vegas actually have other things to do for entertainment.

if they moved florida to vegas, luongo might still be happy.

[Mackcanuck]

40 million people come to Vegas every year

Vegas has a surrounding population of 2 million people

Approximate number of Las Vegas city residents 500,000
Approximate number of Clark County residents 1,500,000
Number of slot machines in the city 197,144
Annual visitors to Las Vegas, in millions 36.7
Percentage of visitors from Southern California 25
Percentage of visitors who say they come to Vegas mainly to gamble 5
Percent of visitors who end up gambling during their stay 87
Hours per day average visitor spends gambling 3.9
Annual state gaming revenue, in billions of dollars 9
Percent of Nevada's general fund fed by gaming-tax revenue 43
Average gambling budget per trip, in dollars 559
Number of people moving to Las Vegas annually 60,000

My post was to show the talent level would not be diluted with expansion

Vegas is coming whether we agree or not.

It could be successful if it is run properly,

The Coyotes are the very worst example, it was poor ownership, location of the Arena much more than player talent.

If the Oilers were in New Orleans everybody would be blaming the misfortunes of the Oilers on its southern location

Tampa and Florida are putting a better product on the ice maybe that could help, but 2 Florida teams is crazy

The last 2 expansion teams were Columbus and Minnesota

Columbus was poorly run at the GM position from the start, but is a much better run organization now

and Minnesota has done okay and is a strong franchise

[Red Light Racicot]

$300M to $400M in expansion fees to the existing owners, none to be shared with the players as it is not considered HRR for some reason

2 expansion teams = $600M to $800M in expansion fees to existing owners

2 relocated teams = $0 to existing owners

The NHL Owners would much rather fold the weak market teams rather than move them to potential expansion Cities

I have never doubted for a second this would be fantastic for the owners, however...

The thing with the Owners is that they think its a good idea to have a lockout every other year. What is good for them is all too often bad for everyone else.

If they relocate Phoenix and Florida then I am open to the idea of expansion on top of that, so long as they are places that will not invariably hemmorrhage cash because the location choice is ridiculous (Im looking at you Vegas)

Percentage of visitors who say they come to Vegas mainly to gamble 5

Im guessing thats because they have oodles of tourist attractions that are so much more interesting and popular then NHL hockey.

I figure even if youre going to have Vegas hotels offering free NHL tickets for people around the continent as part of a package deal, I cant see how people would have much reason to actually attend those games when there is so much more to do.

[asian player]

I assume a lot of the tickets will be bought by casinos/hotels and will be given to their customers. I'm not sure how well their merchandise will go though. Don't worry folks re-locations will come soon enough

[Bill Sikes]

I assume a lot of the tickets will be bought by casinos/hotels and will be given to their customers. I'm not sure how well their merchandise will go though. Don't worry folks re-locations will come soon enough

Why would the casinos do that? They'd rather have arses sitting at the blackjack table, not in an arena for 3 hours.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Why would the casinos do that? They'd rather have arses sitting at the blackjack table, not in an arena for 3 hours.

Percentage of visitors who say they come to Vegas mainly to gamble 5

Percent of visitors who end up gambling during their stay 87

Enticing people to stay at there hotel. Do you understand the competition among vegas hotels. People don't want to admit there going to the hotel for the gambling. It's why you don't see hotels advertise "we have the nicest slot machines" Instead you see things like "2 nights $100 per night plus free tickets hockey game". All hotels do it.

Two words will describe why hockey would be a success in vegas.

Anchor Tenant.

Being the anchor tenant equals a huge payload for the NHL. Being the anchor tenant means a much bigger opportunity to sell tickets, since they would be the only regular sports show playing out of the venue. Not to mention, in a place like Vegas with all of its casinos, shows and VIP packages, it could prove to be that ticket sales aren’t aimed at individuals, but rather at casinos and resorts. The possibilities of selling tickets are seemingly endless, unlike in some other southern markets, which means a successful NHL franchise could indeed be in the cards for Las Vegas.

NHL would get a percentage of ticket sales from anything that goes on in that building (trade shows, UFC fights, concerts)

[johngould21]

If I'm going to Las Vegas, the last thing I'm doing is going to a hockey game to see, say Buffalo vs the Wranglers.

[Bill Sikes]

Enticing people to stay at there hotel. Do you understand the competition among vegas hotels. People don't want to admit there going to the hotel for the gambling. It's why you don't see hotels advertise "we have the nicest slot machines" Instead you see things like "2 nights $100 per night plus free tickets hockey game". All hotels do it.

Two words will describe why hockey would be a success in vegas.

Anchor Tenant.

NHL would get a percentage of ticket sales from anything that goes on in that building (trade shows, UFC fights, concerts)

LOL go to VEgas but don't admit to being there for the gambling?

Anchor tenant? Kinda like Phoenix and Florida? This will be an epic failure, the NHL is gambling on two things:

1 Someone stupid enough to put up the expansion fee

2 Las Vegas being dumb enough to get sucked into the NHL's extortion racket the way Glendale did.