Jake Virtanen vs Nylander/Ehlers/Ritchie

[MJDDawg]

Post this is in the Virtanen Thread thank you

[Tangerines]

The best player will be determined by which one of them win a cup first, and is the most valuable for their team in the playoffs.

[Toews]

It's not like we passed over McDavid.

It was a weak draft and really no wrong pick there. Jake was a safe and good pick. Big, fast and good around the net. Kinda guy built for playoffs,

Maybe one of the other guys gets a few more regular season points but who cares about that any more?

The draft lacked high end talent at the top of the draft and imo has weak depth past the early rounds but the talent available in the 1st couple of rounds was as good as ever. Especially I thought the amount of skilled forwards available was quite impressive. Guys like Pastrnak, McCann, Fabbri, Scherbak, Barbashev etc look like solid picks and all were drafted late 1st to early 2nd round. I think people will be saying that this wasn't as bad as draft as people thought it would be. I personally thought it lacked talent late in the draft but I would not be surprised if I am wrong on that either.

[BanTSN]

I like Nylander's slick puck skills and patience. He'll be a decent power play threat in the NHL after gaining a bit of strength.

Things to note:

He plays like an offensive star. He's there to put points up. If he's not doing that, then he's not going to be noticed. This leads to him hanging onto the puck a bit too long at times, but there's no doubt he can make a play. Smooth, cool, and nonchalant-looking most of the time. He can surprise with a sweet-looking play in other times. Physical non-factor.

He's not a center. This is why Sweden is playing him on the wing. A center has the natural instincts to be a bit aggressive on the opponent puck carrier in the neutral zone, do a bit more without the puck and even do some gruntwork on the boards in his own zone. Nylander appears unwilling to do any of that. So I believe he'll be a playmaking winger, who will be most noticeable on the power play. In this tournament and in the U18 before it that has meant passing the puck to our bigtime shooter, Gustav Forsling.

He will foray into his own zone though. Sometimes he will check a puck carrier with his stick. Other times he will coast back and watch. I'd rate his defensive tendencies from inconsistent to non-existant. But defense will not be what he'll be known for.

He reminds me of how his father played, actually. His father had a pretty good career.

Should be interesting to see what Toronto does with him. The pressure to anoint him top line center there, even though he's years away from being a top liner, and he probably won't ever be a top line center, is huge. But if they give him some cushy zone starts and milk as many points from him as possible, that's a quick ticket to a big second contract, and that will make him happy. We will see.

And if Don Cherry complains, just point out to him that he's actually Canadian.

I like Ehlers' blazing speed and willingness to use it. He'll be a one-dimensional scoring threat who's also most effective on the power play, but he'll need to gain a lot of strength first. At time he just falls down on his own. Very fast, but not the most balanced skater.

Things to note:

Plays like an offensive star? You bet. He plays probably the most one-dimensional game I've seen in years. Constantly floats up ice waiting for the puck in this tournament, the recent junior a challenge one and in the QMJHL playoffs as well. At his size, this is just what he'll need to do; Seek open ice. Absolute physical non-factor.

He's not clutch. Takes bad penalties late in games and then complains to the refs when he does. Trying too hard to make a play on his own, he turns it over often in key times. With seconds left in the period he got hit in the wrist and instead of finishing his shift he immediately cradled it and headed on over to the bench for maintenance. I understand that it might hurt, but in an important, very close game? Don't ever do that. If he's going to do that playing for his country, then how's it going to be in the pros? He also tends to watch his checks score important goals. I'd say he's anti-clutch.

I think he's years away from gaining the strength and learn the traits needed for sustained success in the pros. There are times when he was skating around in circles along the boards and he put himself in positions to be absolutely crushed on hits. This is a total no-no for him and it needs to stop. Perhaps he should focus on give-and-go plays.

Overall he has some star qualities for sure, but the question is if he'll put up enough points for his lack of... Everything else... To be forgiven. I'd take Nylander over him any day.

And Ritchie... Oh Ritchie... I guess you have to like his size, but he's a Penner/Clowe-type. Nothing more. His playmaking, shot, and overall offensive ability is average at best. Slowwww, big body reminds me more of how Pyatt plays. Hits now and then, but lacks aggressiveness that you'd like in a big body. He's got some baby fat, to say the least.

Notes:

He's not a center. At least not a top one on a good team. Way too slow and makes some pretty poor decisions with and without the puck.

He'll come up with a big hit now and then, but he'll need to do that every shift to be a force in the NHL, and I don't think he has the speed, aggressiveness or endurance for that. I think he'll need a few years of AHL time to mature, but he may be thrown into lineups just because he's big.

Virtanen? Said all along I absolutely love the kid over the other ones and he was rated higher for a reason, but I'll try to be fair here.

Notes:

As fast as Nylander and just about as fast as Ehlers, but with size and aggressiveness. This edge is what will make him more effective in the pros right away.

Fairly impatient with the puck. He does everything at high speed and will need to learn to slow the play down a bit as sometimes that is more effective. That being said, on the power play he's totally fine at making these type of plays in the Stamkos spot. (Surprised that Team Canada hasn't tried him there yet. Hopefully it will come.)

Has shown a lot of skills in this tourney that other players on Team Canada simply don't have. Earned name 'Showtime' for a reason.

He's working his way up the Team Canada depth chart in short order and that's saying something. His speed matches McD's and it's only a matter of time before some dazzling goals start to happen.

I would put him on the RW with McD. Virtanen does better on that side and it's not like Lazar is doing much 5-on-5. Lazar looks to be a future 3rd line character guy. Then I'd put him on the McD unit PP on the left side. The goals will come easier than Nylander to Gustav boomshots.

Virtanen has a shot to make the Canucks as soon as next season. Simple matter he already has an NHL shot, more than NHL speed, and NHL size. That's more than enough to begin an NHL career with.

[BanTSN]

You can thank TSN for that.

Well, they have nothing else...

[Junkyard Dog]

Virtanen will have to really stand out in training camp if he's going to make the team as an teenager.

Jake already has a disadvantage with the amount of young talent we currently have and will have next year in Utica. The edge he has in these terms is that he is one of our few RW prospects compared to the many C and LW prospects we have. Other than that he has the skill set to play next year it is just a matter of outplaying his fellow propsects in training camp.

[Luongowned]

Thanks Deb, I didn't mean to end up one of those guys who makes a thread on a topic that has multiple threads but I felt an urge to express my excitement and I did. I'll be more aware in the future to check other threads. Thanks for the kindness

[StarGirl]

I agree with you.

I like Virtanen's playing style a lot, he's a total power forward.

Physical, fast and can score goals, what a package.

I admit I think Nylander's skill with the puck may be better than Virtanen's, but I definitely think the Canucks need a guy like Virtanen over Nylander. We have been constantly looking towards building our team into becoming stronger after the cup final in 2011.

I haven't focused on Ehlers, so I can't say anything about him...

But I read many comments about Ritchie when he played on the line with McDavid and people kept complaining how slow he was, that he can't keep up with McDavid's speed. I watched the WJC's as well and I think the same way.

I know speed isn't everything, but it is still something that is great in a player to have and can benefit in certain plays.

[Luongowned]

I really agree with the posts above, especially Ban TSN. With Ehlers and Nylander it almost seems like a team would have to roll the dice and hope to get a legitimate offensive threat once they are fully developed but Virtanen really peaks my interest with his durability. I think I get giddy like a child when I think about shinkaruk, horvat, virtanen in their prime. With our new development system in Utica it is safe to say we'll have consistent NHL ready prospects ready to make the jump and produce for us much like Detroit.

[avelanch]

The best player will be determined by which one of them win a cup first, and is the most valuable for their team in the playoffs.

so Matt Cook is better than Thornton, Marleau, and Hossa... gotcha.

[Luongowned]

so Matt Cook is better than Thornton, Marleau, and Hossa... gotcha.

Lol I was waiting for someone to say that.

[Brewmaster12]

This should be it's own thread cuz it's annoying af when people are constantly comparing Virtanen to these guys in his thread

yet we compare him him NHL best players

[Langdon Algur]

I like Nylander's slick puck skills and patience. He'll be a decent power play threat in the NHL after gaining a bit of strength.

Things to note:

He plays like an offensive star. He's there to put points up. If he's not doing that, then he's not going to be noticed. This leads to him hanging onto the puck a bit too long at times, but there's no doubt he can make a play. Smooth, cool, and nonchalant-looking most of the time. He can surprise with a sweet-looking play in other times. Physical non-factor.

He's not a center. This is why Sweden is playing him on the wing. A center has the natural instincts to be a bit aggressive on the opponent puck carrier in the neutral zone, do a bit more without the puck and even do some gruntwork on the boards in his own zone. Nylander appears unwilling to do any of that. So I believe he'll be a playmaking winger, who will be most noticeable on the power play. In this tournament and in the U18 before it that has meant passing the puck to our bigtime shooter, Gustav Forsling.

He will foray into his own zone though. Sometimes he will check a puck carrier with his stick. Other times he will coast back and watch. I'd rate his defensive tendencies from inconsistent to non-existant. But defense will not be what he'll be known for.

He reminds me of how his father played, actually. His father had a pretty good career.

Should be interesting to see what Toronto does with him. The pressure to anoint him top line center there, even though he's years away from being a top liner, and he probably won't ever be a top line center, is huge. But if they give him some cushy zone starts and milk as many points from him as possible, that's a quick ticket to a big second contract, and that will make him happy. We will see.

And if Don Cherry complains, just point out to him that he's actually Canadian.

I like Ehlers' blazing speed and willingness to use it. He'll be a one-dimensional scoring threat who's also most effective on the power play, but he'll need to gain a lot of strength first. At time he just falls down on his own. Very fast, but not the most balanced skater.

Things to note:

Plays like an offensive star? You bet. He plays probably the most one-dimensional game I've seen in years. Constantly floats up ice waiting for the puck in this tournament, the recent junior a challenge one and in the QMJHL playoffs as well. At his size, this is just what he'll need to do; Seek open ice. Absolute physical non-factor.

He's not clutch. Takes bad penalties late in games and then complains to the refs when he does. Trying too hard to make a play on his own, he turns it over often in key times. With seconds left in the period he got hit in the wrist and instead of finishing his shift he immediately cradled it and headed on over to the bench for maintenance. I understand that it might hurt, but in an important, very close game? Don't ever do that. If he's going to do that playing for his country, then how's it going to be in the pros? He also tends to watch his checks score important goals. I'd say he's anti-clutch.

I think he's years away from gaining the strength and learn the traits needed for sustained success in the pros. There are times when he was skating around in circles along the boards and he put himself in positions to be absolutely crushed on hits. This is a total no-no for him and it needs to stop. Perhaps he should focus on give-and-go plays.

Overall he has some star qualities for sure, but the question is if he'll put up enough points for his lack of... Everything else... To be forgiven. I'd take Nylander over him any day.

And Ritchie... Oh Ritchie... I guess you have to like his size, but he's a Penner/Clowe-type. Nothing more. His playmaking, shot, and overall offensive ability is average at best. Slowwww, big body reminds me more of how Pyatt plays. Hits now and then, but lacks aggressiveness that you'd like in a big body. He's got some baby fat, to say the least.

Notes:

He's not a center. At least not a top one on a good team. Way too slow and makes some pretty poor decisions with and without the puck.

He'll come up with a big hit now and then, but he'll need to do that every shift to be a force in the NHL, and I don't think he has the speed, aggressiveness or endurance for that. I think he'll need a few years of AHL time to mature, but he may be thrown into lineups just because he's big.

Virtanen? Said all along I absolutely love the kid over the other ones and he was rated higher for a reason, but I'll try to be fair here.

Notes:

As fast as Nylander and just about as fast as Ehlers, but with size and aggressiveness. This edge is what will make him more effective in the pros right away.

Fairly impatient with the puck. He does everything at high speed and will need to learn to slow the play down a bit as sometimes that is more effective. That being said, on the power play he's totally fine at making these type of plays in the Stamkos spot. (Surprised that Team Canada hasn't tried him there yet. Hopefully it will come.)

Has shown a lot of skills in this tourney that other players on Team Canada simply don't have. Earned name 'Showtime' for a reason.

He's working his way up the Team Canada depth chart in short order and that's saying something. His speed matches McD's and it's only a matter of time before some dazzling goals start to happen.

I would put him on the RW with McD. Virtanen does better on that side and it's not like Lazar is doing much 5-on-5. Lazar looks to be a future 3rd line character guy. Then I'd put him on the McD unit PP on the left side. The goals will come easier than Nylander to Gustav boomshots.

Virtanen has a shot to make the Canucks as soon as next season. Simple matter he already has an NHL shot, more than NHL speed, and NHL size. That's more than enough to begin an NHL career with.

WTF, weren't you the guy who called Nylander a girl and soft euro earlier?

[87Crosby]

I like Nylander's slick puck skills and patience. He'll be a decent power play threat in the NHL after gaining a bit of strength.

Things to note:

He plays like an offensive star. He's there to put points up. If he's not doing that, then he's not going to be noticed. This leads to him hanging onto the puck a bit too long at times, but there's no doubt he can make a play. Smooth, cool, and nonchalant-looking most of the time. He can surprise with a sweet-looking play in other times. Physical non-factor.

He's not a center. This is why Sweden is playing him on the wing. A center has the natural instincts to be a bit aggressive on the opponent puck carrier in the neutral zone, do a bit more without the puck and even do some gruntwork on the boards in his own zone. Nylander appears unwilling to do any of that. So I believe he'll be a playmaking winger, who will be most noticeable on the power play. In this tournament and in the U18 before it that has meant passing the puck to our bigtime shooter, Gustav Forsling.

He will foray into his own zone though. Sometimes he will check a puck carrier with his stick. Other times he will coast back and watch. I'd rate his defensive tendencies from inconsistent to non-existant. But defense will not be what he'll be known for.

He reminds me of how his father played, actually. His father had a pretty good career.

Should be interesting to see what Toronto does with him. The pressure to anoint him top line center there, even though he's years away from being a top liner, and he probably won't ever be a top line center, is huge. But if they give him some cushy zone starts and milk as many points from him as possible, that's a quick ticket to a big second contract, and that will make him happy. We will see.

And if Don Cherry complains, just point out to him that he's actually Canadian.

I like Ehlers' blazing speed and willingness to use it. He'll be a one-dimensional scoring threat who's also most effective on the power play, but he'll need to gain a lot of strength first. At time he just falls down on his own. Very fast, but not the most balanced skater.

Things to note:

Plays like an offensive star? You bet. He plays probably the most one-dimensional game I've seen in years. Constantly floats up ice waiting for the puck in this tournament, the recent junior a challenge one and in the QMJHL playoffs as well. At his size, this is just what he'll need to do; Seek open ice. Absolute physical non-factor.

He's not clutch. Takes bad penalties late in games and then complains to the refs when he does. Trying too hard to make a play on his own, he turns it over often in key times. With seconds left in the period he got hit in the wrist and instead of finishing his shift he immediately cradled it and headed on over to the bench for maintenance. I understand that it might hurt, but in an important, very close game? Don't ever do that. If he's going to do that playing for his country, then how's it going to be in the pros? He also tends to watch his checks score important goals. I'd say he's anti-clutch.

I think he's years away from gaining the strength and learn the traits needed for sustained success in the pros. There are times when he was skating around in circles along the boards and he put himself in positions to be absolutely crushed on hits. This is a total no-no for him and it needs to stop. Perhaps he should focus on give-and-go plays.

Overall he has some star qualities for sure, but the question is if he'll put up enough points for his lack of... Everything else... To be forgiven. I'd take Nylander over him any day.

And Ritchie... Oh Ritchie... I guess you have to like his size, but he's a Penner/Clowe-type. Nothing more. His playmaking, shot, and overall offensive ability is average at best. Slowwww, big body reminds me more of how Pyatt plays. Hits now and then, but lacks aggressiveness that you'd like in a big body. He's got some baby fat, to say the least.

Notes:

He's not a center. At least not a top one on a good team. Way too slow and makes some pretty poor decisions with and without the puck.

He'll come up with a big hit now and then, but he'll need to do that every shift to be a force in the NHL, and I don't think he has the speed, aggressiveness or endurance for that. I think he'll need a few years of AHL time to mature, but he may be thrown into lineups just because he's big.

Virtanen? Said all along I absolutely love the kid over the other ones and he was rated higher for a reason, but I'll try to be fair here.

Notes:

As fast as Nylander and just about as fast as Ehlers, but with size and aggressiveness. This edge is what will make him more effective in the pros right away.

Fairly impatient with the puck. He does everything at high speed and will need to learn to slow the play down a bit as sometimes that is more effective. That being said, on the power play he's totally fine at making these type of plays in the Stamkos spot. (Surprised that Team Canada hasn't tried him there yet. Hopefully it will come.)

Has shown a lot of skills in this tourney that other players on Team Canada simply don't have. Earned name 'Showtime' for a reason.

He's working his way up the Team Canada depth chart in short order and that's saying something. His speed matches McD's and it's only a matter of time before some dazzling goals start to happen.

I would put him on the RW with McD. Virtanen does better on that side and it's not like Lazar is doing much 5-on-5. Lazar looks to be a future 3rd line character guy. Then I'd put him on the McD unit PP on the left side. The goals will come easier than Nylander to Gustav boomshots.

Virtanen has a shot to make the Canucks as soon as next season. Simple matter he already has an NHL shot, more than NHL speed, and NHL size. That's more than enough to begin an NHL career with.

I agree with everything except for your judgement of Lazar. Lazar has a much higher ceiling than a third liner. IMO he'll turn into a TJ Oshie type player.

[Gaudette Celly]

It's a small sample size to be certain, but very happy with what we've seen out there. Reinhart is not at all flashy but obviously a very smart player -- would those who were supporting a draft trade of Horvat and Virtanen, or Shinkaruk, Tanev, and Virtanen for him (DeNiro and company) still do so? Of, would anyone make that trade for Ekblad?

[Langdon Algur]

It's a small sample size to be certain, but very happy with what we've seen out there. Reinhart is not at all flashy but obviously a very smart player -- would those who were supporting a draft trade of Horvat and Virtanen, or Shinkaruk, Tanev, and Virtanen for him (DeNiro and company) still do so? Of, would anyone make that trade for Ekblad?

I would support trading Virt, Shinkarul and Tanev for Reinhart. Virt is looking good but Reingart will is on the top line in the WJC for a reason, he's going to be a franchise player. Although it would hurt to losse Tanevs we need D, Rienhart would be worth lossing two good prospects and a 4-5 Dman for. I would be less inclined to do the Horvat version of the that trade.

[Nuxfanabroad]

Apropos questions Grizz..I'm glad TL & JB learned their Canuck's history back in the mediocre '80s. They say those who were raised during the depression, tend not to squander wealth...

[ButcherG]

Apropos questions Grizz..I'm glad TL & JB learned their Canuck's history back in the mediocre '80s. They say those who were raised during the depression, tend not to squander wealth...

I wish this was true. Giving away seconds and thirds for Vey and Petan seem otherwise to me.

[Nuxfanabroad]

^Both guys were buried alive by teams deep at their respective positions. Their future efforts & progress will reflect their appreciation. JB's an astute shopper, scouring the bargain bins..have faith.

[Gaudette Celly]

I wish this was true. Giving away seconds and thirds for Vey and Petan seem otherwise to me.

Draft picks aren't wealth but tokens, the majority of which end up being worthless. Wealth accumulation is turning picks, whether by draft or trade, into players who have or are showing progression in development and ability.