Jake Virtanen vs Nylander/Ehlers/Ritchie

[TOMapleLaughs]

I don't think I recall another point in cdc history where a thread like this was deemed necessary. Considering there are 210 picks in every draft, you have to consider, in Virtanen's case, that 204 picks were potential 'misses' by the Canucks. Yet, the focus on these three other picks, Nylander, Ehlers and Ritchie, esp. the first two, has come up time and time again here for months and months.

Considering the teams that selected these players, and the media support behind them, I have no choice but to think that it's just trolling.

In any case, I've supported the selection of Virtanen and looking at how he's doing now, I don't see too much reason to be concerned about it. It's nice for a change of pace in that regard, methinks.

[The Lock]

The thing is, there will ALWAYS be other players we can pick and some will make the NHL and be better players than what we picked. Some who make the NHL won't even be drafted.

So what's the point in even fighting about what's already happened? Are you guys who think we should have drafted someone else just trying to be downers because we didn't draft who you wanted? What exactly are you trying to accomplish by complaining?

[TOMapleLaughs]

The thing is, there will ALWAYS be other players we can pick and some will make the NHL and be better players than what we picked. Some who make the NHL won't even be drafted.

So what's the point in even fighting about what's already happened? Are you guys who think we should have drafted someone else just trying to be downers because we didn't draft who you wanted? What exactly are you trying to accomplish by complaining?

My guess is that people will automatically have to become TO or Jets fans based on their two favorite picks in the 2014 draft.

There has been woulda shoulda talk in previous years for sure. But this year is off the charts. Absolutely because of guys out east I think.

[austy]

Before the draft I thought ban tsn was just a bit crazy that he didn't want ehlers or Nylander. But you raise some good points in your analysis and vir virtanen is playing great. And given he is so young is really interesting too. Not sure if I've jumped on the bandwagon just yet but I am very excited about the pick. I love this board though lots of great chatter about our picks it's a cool time to be a fan of the nucks.

[Gaudette Celly]

So what's the point in even fighting about what's already happened? Are you guys who think we should have drafted someone else just trying to be downers because we didn't draft who you wanted? What exactly are you trying to accomplish by complaining?

Sulking butthurt.

[Smashian Kassian]

It's not like we passed over McDavid.

It was a weak draft and really no wrong pick there. Jake was a safe and good pick. Big, fast and good around the net. Kinda guy built for playoffs,

Maybe one of the other guys gets a few more regular season points but who cares about that any more?

No it wasn't.

I like Ehlers' blazing speed and willingness to use it. He'll be a one-dimensional scoring threat who's also most effective on the power play, but he'll need to gain a lot of strength first. At time he just falls down on his own. Very fast, but not the most balanced skater.

Things to note:

Plays like an offensive star? You bet. He plays probably the most one-dimensional game I've seen in years. Constantly floats up ice waiting for the puck in this tournament, the recent junior a challenge one and in the QMJHL playoffs as well. At his size, this is just what he'll need to do; Seek open ice. Absolute physical non-factor.

He's not clutch. Takes bad penalties late in games and then complains to the refs when he does. Trying too hard to make a play on his own, he turns it over often in key times. With seconds left in the period he got hit in the wrist and instead of finishing his shift he immediately cradled it and headed on over to the bench for maintenance. I understand that it might hurt, but in an important, very close game? Don't ever do that. If he's going to do that playing for his country, then how's it going to be in the pros? He also tends to watch his checks score important goals. I'd say he's anti-clutch.

I think he's years away from gaining the strength and learn the traits needed for sustained success in the pros. There are times when he was skating around in circles along the boards and he put himself in positions to be absolutely crushed on hits. This is a total no-no for him and it needs to stop. Perhaps he should focus on give-and-go plays.

Overall he has some star qualities for sure, but the question is if he'll put up enough points for his lack of... Everything else... To be forgiven. I'd take Nylander over him any day.

Just because you keep saying these things doesn't make them true, he's a better defensive player than Virtanen.

And I'm not sure what you consider to be clutch but he was great int he QMJHL playoffs & he has been great for Denmark even though they are out matched as a whole against almost every other nation in the tournament.

[Smashian Kassian]

It's a small sample size to be certain, but very happy with what we've seen out there. Reinhart is not at all flashy but obviously a very smart player -- would those who were supporting a draft trade of Horvat and Virtanen, or Shinkaruk, Tanev, and Virtanen for him (DeNiro and company) still do so? Of, would anyone make that trade for Ekblad?

When the rumours of that trade were going around I didn't want it to happen because I knew JB & TL wanted Reinhart, but I really felt that Ekblad was the best player available, with the highest upside. And since they weren't making the move to take him I was hoping the trade wouldn't happen.

I'm not sure I would make that trade (which was our 2 firsts, so both Virtanen & McCann, and Shinkaruk) for Reinhart, but for Ekblad I think I would make that trade, he's already a stud on Florida's blueline and he looks like he could be a franchise defenseman. (If some people didn't think he had that upside before the draft, which I did personally)

[Stormriders]

When the rumours of that trade were going around I didn't want it to happen because I knew JB & TL wanted Reinhart, but I really felt that Ekblad was the best player available, with the highest upside. And since they weren't making the move to take him I was hoping the trade wouldn't happen.

I'm not sure I would make that trade (which was our 2 firsts, so both Virtanen & McCann, and Shinkaruk) for Reinhart, but for Ekblad I think I would make that trade, he's already a stud on Florida's blueline and he looks like he could be a franchise defenseman. (If some people didn't think he had that upside before the draft, which I did personally)

Totally agree. I would have made the trade for Ekblad and still would.

[canuktravella]

ritchie is still fat and slow virtanen is still fast and fierce nylander and ehlers are still good

[Boudrias]

If Ekblad was playing in the WJC the talk would be all about him. Almost unheard of for a 18 year old to make the NHL let alone in the defense position. As Smashian proposed Virtanen, McCann and Shink for Ekblad would be enticing. The problem is Vancouver does not have the depth for such a deal. I expect JV & McCann to be NHLers. Shink is more of a gamble IMHO. A deal like that would have been huge for Vancouver but ultimately I cannot see Florida willing to do it.

The game tonight against USA could possibly show a lot of what Virtanen has to offer. Starts on the 2nd line. McDavid has not done much yet and this line has lots of potential for a big game.

[Canucks Curse]

I would support trading Virt, Shinkarul and Tanev for Reinhart. Virt is looking good but Reingart will is on the top line in the WJC for a reason, he's going to be a franchise player. Although it would hurt to losse Tanevs we need D, Rienhart would be worth lossing two good prospects and a 4-5 Dman for. I would be less inclined to do the Horvat version of the that trade.

Tanev is currently our 2nd best d man and arguably our most consistent. Shink, virt, Tanev is an overpayment.

Shink, virtanen and Corrado and a 2nd is more in line with reality

[VegasCanuck]

Virtanen = Awesome pick and prospect

End thread here!

[LaBamba]

Everyone from the supporters to the Bashers are wayyyyy over analyzing this kid.

A pick, becomes a prospect, a prospect becomes a NHL player an NHL player helps you win the Stanley cup.

Until jake Virtanen becomes an NHL player we really have no idea how he will transition to the NHL.

The list of promising top 10 picks that dominated the CHL/ WJHC then failed to have success in the NHL is so long it's ridiculous. It's fun to imagine Jake as the player who will finally electrify rogers areana like Bure did the Coliseum many years ago but it's also really early to be setting those kinda expectations.

I'm going to sit back and enjoy the ride. I'm not going to worry about the players who surrounded him in the draft because there are too many variables along the way of a players development to judge their progress.

We once had a prospect who dominated the WJHC who is a complete non-factor in the NHL today. So let's cool our jets.

[TOMapleLaughs]

I think we're ready to progress beyond the 'wait and see what he does in the NHL' attitude towards analyzing our draft picks. I think we've seen enough of what works and what doesn't at the NHL level to make some fair assessments.

For example, "He's got speed to burn, puts up some nice assists, showing a high hockey IQ, but is pretty undersized and is easily checked off the puck on any shift." Yeah, probably not going to work as anything but a sheltered winger.

Or "He skates well for a big man, is inconsistent on offense, will take the odd bad penalty, but when he's on his game he's a dominant physical force." Yeah, probably a checker.

Or "He represents one of the most complete prospect packages in the draft. With his solid build, quick stick and natural insticts, he already has NHL calibre tools with an impressive ceiling. As a skilled scoring forward, his mobility, puckhandling and releause are what have propelled him near the top of a reasonably solid draft class." NOW we're getting somewhere! (This was taken from Virtanen's Red Line Report.)

ps. Coho's skating was always an issue.

[Rollieo Del Fuego]

I think we're ready to progress beyond the 'wait and see what he does in the NHL' attitude towards analyzing our draft picks. I think we've seen enough of what works and what doesn't at the NHL level to make some fair assessments.

For example, "He's got speed to burn, puts up some nice assists, showing a high hockey IQ, but is pretty undersized and is easily checked off the puck on any shift." Yeah, probably not going to work as anything but a sheltered winger.

Or "He skates well for a big man, is inconsistent on offense, will take the odd bad penalty, but when he's on his game he's a dominant physical force." Yeah, probably a checker.

Or "He represents one of the most complete prospect packages in the draft. With his solid build, quick stick and natural insticts, he already has NHL calibre tools with an impressive ceiling. As a skilled scoring forward, his mobility, puckhandling and releause are what have propelled him near the top of a reasonably solid draft class." NOW we're getting somewhere! (This was taken from Virtanen's Red Line Report.)

ps. Coho's skating was always an issue.

Here, here....

[Pears]

When the rumours of that trade were going around I didn't want it to happen because I knew JB & TL wanted Reinhart, but I really felt that Ekblad was the best player available, with the highest upside. And since they weren't making the move to take him I was hoping the trade wouldn't happen.

I'm not sure I would make that trade (which was our 2 firsts, so both Virtanen & McCann, and Shinkaruk) for Reinhart, but for Ekblad I think I would make that trade, he's already a stud on Florida's blueline and he looks like he could be a franchise defenseman. (If some people didn't think he had that upside before the draft, which I did personally)

I mean the ideal scenario would've been to get both of Anaheim's firsts in the Kesler trade then flip those in a package for the 1st overall and take Reinhart or Ekblad. That's a trade I still think could've been possible.

[LaBamba]

I think we're ready to progress beyond the 'wait and see what he does in the NHL' attitude towards analyzing our draft picks. I think we've seen enough of what works and what doesn't at the NHL level to make some fair assessments.

For example, "He's got speed to burn, puts up some nice assists, showing a high hockey IQ, but is pretty undersized and is easily checked off the puck on any shift." Yeah, probably not going to work as anything but a sheltered winger.

Or "He skates well for a big man, is inconsistent on offense, will take the odd bad penalty, but when he's on his game he's a dominant physical force." Yeah, probably a checker.

Or "He represents one of the most complete prospect packages in the draft. With his solid build, quick stick and natural insticts, he already has NHL calibre tools with an impressive ceiling. As a skilled scoring forward, his mobility, puckhandling and releause are what have propelled him near the top of a reasonably solid draft class." NOW we're getting somewhere! (This was taken from Virtanen's Red Line Report.)

ps. Coho's skating was always an issue.

I agree that he has all the tools it takes to be an NHL player but it's really hard to judge big players in Jr. Once they play amongst men they don't have that physical dominance to fall back on.

I think jake is special because of his speed, his size is just a bonus.

[Luongowned]

I'm truly curious as to see how far this kid can go. I hope he plays for Canada next year as a senior and tears it up. In reality though he could easily make the Canucks roster next season as we lack depth in RW players of his caliber. Could you imagine a 3rd line of Shinkaruk Vey Virtanen. I'm super excited and I want to thank the people who took the time to give lengthy responses on their thoughts of the 4 players listed.

[Smashian Kassian]

FTR I have come around on Virtanen, I like alot more than I did at the draft, and not just because we took him but I think he has really taken some big steps this year.

But I would definitely make that deal for Ekblad. Boudrias is right, Ekblad is playing unreal right now and as an 18 year old its almos t unheard of, I can't see Florida moving him, he's got huge upside.

I mean the ideal scenario would've been to get both of Anaheim's firsts in the Kesler trade then flip those in a package for the 1st overall and take Reinhart or Ekblad. That's a trade I still think could've been possible.

Ya that absolutely would have been the best scenario, I don't know if it was possible or not, hard to say. perhaps if Bonino wasn't in the trade, but who knows.

[Maniwaki Canuck]

I wanted Ehlers at the time and still think he will be good, but have warmed up to Virtanen a lot over the last few months. It's not just the raw tools he's got, although those are impressive. He seems pretty coachable, and to be learning a better defensive game, as well as distributing the puck a bit more than last year. It will be interesting to see if he makes the Canucks next year: they'd have to move someone to make room but that could happen. There's a parallel with Horvat around having an NHL body, but the difference is that Jake isn't likely to make the team in a purely defensive role. For that reason alone, I'd say there's another year of junior in store for him. Still, I like what he's showing in this tournament, even if there are still some rough edges.