Hairy Kneel Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 When Eddis is playing this well his value is higher than this trade.. so no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underrated Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 Visnovsky is a huge downgrade with the way Edler has played for us this season. Edler has played and played well against other teams top players all season. Edler's pretty much been our everything Defenseman. one our top Pkers on top PP and eats a ton of minutes 5 on 5. Edler has been playing well, but Visnovsky is not a massive downgrade, or the sign of the end of the season for us as people are hyperbolizing. Player Team Pos GP G A P +/- PIM PPG PPP SHG SHP GW OT S S% TOI/GP Shift/GP Alexander Edler VAN D 35 3 8 11 +4 22 3 5 0 0 0 0 94 3.2 24:14 31.3 Lubomir Visnovsky NYI D 27 3 8 11 +6 2 1 3 0 0 1 0 44 6.8 19:57 22.6 These are their stats right now (sorted by D men points on nhl.com). The only real difference is that Edler has more penalty minutes and TOI. I'm not saying that points symbolize everything, but Visnovsky is a smart veteran who has been around this league a long time and doesn't make the boneheaded giveaways that Edler often does. He also brings the puck up the ice well like we need. There is no way that this trade throws away our season. And a couple people have said that Griffin Reinhardt won't develop into a top player. I'm wondering if that is based on anything in particular? What has so significantly changed since he was drafted 4th overall in 2012? Defenseman can take a bit longer to develop than forwards, but Reinhardt is still an elite prospect. Whoever suggested they wouldn't give Kassian for him is crazy, in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Doing this as anything other than a re-build move by the Canucks is pointless. The Islanders can keep Visnovsky. The guy may well retire after this season, and even if he were to re-sign as a Canuck then that becomes a potentially significant liablity as he would be a 35+ contract. The Canucks would lose Edler and the potential of Kassian and gain only the potential of Reinhart (and a 2nd which I would prefer over Visnovsky). If the team is giving up that much, then the Islanders should throw in a 1st rather than a potential second, and/or perhaps also another prospect. I do not support moving Edler and/or Kassian, in part as this team is still competitive, but if the Canucks did choose to move them: To NYI - Edler, Kassian To Van - Reinhart, Pulock, 2nd (I could maybe be talked down to an additional prospect) If the Islanders want to win now, then they can do it at the expense of their future, which should help the Canucks with their re-build. Perhaps a contract would have to come back from the Islanders to even up some cap hit, but no more than a couple of million. If they insist on unloading Visnovsky then the 2nd becomes an Islanders 1st. If there is enough time, I'd see if I could unload Visnovsky for picks to another team for their Cup run. To NYI - Edler, Kassian (perhaps a contract dump, not a cap dump) To Van - Reinhart, Pulock, Visnovsky*, 1st (*perhaps moved for picks in a 2nd deal?) Even this feels a bit light for what the Islanders are giving up. regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 This deal is just bad.. I wouldn't do Kassian straight up for Reinhardt let alone that package. As someone mentioned above, I don't see him being anything more than a solid top 4 -- which isn't that hard to find/acquire. Finding skilled physical wingers is pretty hard, and you usually have to develop them yourself. I would consider Edler for Visnovsky, Reinhardt and the 2nd (no condition), but only after the season is over. Visnovsky will be a UFA after the season is over, chum. Your deal is then Reinhart, a 2nd and the rights to Visnovsky until he hits the free agency. regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyhee Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 ... And a couple people have said that Griffin Reinhardt won't develop into a top player. I'm wondering if that is based on anything in particular? What has so significantly changed since he was drafted 4th overall in 2012? Defenseman can take a bit longer to develop than forwards, but Reinhardt is still an elite prospect. Whoever suggested they wouldn't give Kassian for him is crazy, in my mind. I don't think I'd posted about it, but I do think you're overvaluing Reinhart as a prospect. What has happened since the draft? He was drafted # 4 overall in 2012. His scoring stagnated. His points per game in his draft year was 0.62. In his draft + 1 year it was 0.49. In his draft + 2 year it was 0.47. The trend is not encouraging. Someone drafted # 4 overall would usually be expected to be in the NHL 2 years later, though that isn't always the case. He was given a shot by the Islanders this season but didn't stick and is in the AHL. Since I don't have powers to predict the future, I don't know how good Reinhart will be. He's still NYI top defence prospect, still a good prospect-but his lack of scoring since the draft is enough to raise questions. If you'd like to read a couple of blog postings which raise questions about Reinhart without passing judgment on whether he'll make it are at http://oilersnation.com/2014/4/27/don-t-overvalue-griffin-reinhart/trash/page/2 and http://nhlnumbers.com/2014/5/26/journal-of-hockey-analytics-volume-i-issue-3. The second of those refers to other articles as well. The blog posts both speak of what one can, and can't, tell from scoring by junior defencemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underrated Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 Thanks Tyhee, I read the article that you recommended (here: http://www.lighthousehockey.com/2014/5/22/5740500/why-to-believe-and-why-to-be-worried-about-griffin-reinhart). It definitely makes an interesting argument. I don't think it necessarily means he's a busy. The article does state that " Note that 41% of top 25 picks who didn't meet the criteria were "non-busts," meaning they played a good amount of NHL games." Although I get the logic of the article, which is a really good one, my only counter argument would be that there are really good shut down defenseman in the NHL like Dan Hamhuis, who don't score much but are elite. Sounds like Reinhardt may be going more of that approach than a two way guy. Thanks for the share! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Grimes Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Of course he hasn't proven anything yet, he's an elite prospect. Should we give away all our prospects because they haven't proven anything in the NHL? No, but we sure as hell shouldn't trade a proven NHL defender for a big question mark. You kind of just shot your own argument in the foot, Should we trade proven commodities for a player that HASN'T proven anything in the NHL? Kassian is a guaranteed NHLer who still has potential to be a top 6 player(Although I don't think it will happen here, or under Willie D.) Edler has been here nearly 10 years, he plays the style of hockey Willie D loves, he fits in with the current core well, stays out of trouble with the Media...No way would I trade him for a Question mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William_Clarkson Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Edler has been playing well, but Visnovsky is not a massive downgrade, or the sign of the end of the season for us as people are hyperbolizing. Player Team Pos GP G A P +/- PIM PPG PPP SHG SHP GW OT S S% TOI/GP Shift/GP Alexander Edler VAN D 35 3 8 11 +4 22 3 5 0 0 0 0 94 3.2 24:14 31.3 Lubomir Visnovsky NYI D 27 3 8 11 +6 2 1 3 0 0 1 0 44 6.8 19:57 22.6 These are their stats right now (sorted by D men points on nhl.com). The only real difference is that Edler has more penalty minutes and TOI. I'm not saying that points symbolize everything, but Visnovsky is a smart veteran who has been around this league a long time and doesn't make the boneheaded giveaways that Edler often does. He also brings the puck up the ice well like we need. There is no way that this trade throws away our season. Compare their advanced stats. Edler faces top competition, Vinovsky faces easy competition. Also, their corsi ratings are very similar. so as far as getting the puck up the ice it seems as if Edler does it at about the same ability (while facing top lines). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuktravella Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 pulock and reinhart and 1st for edler kassian markstrom we get two future stud 1/2 dmen for a great number 2 dman in edler that plays against tough comp and a big power forward and a legit backup sets us up for future but guarantees sedins never get that cup trade higgins hansen at deadline 2nd rounders package 2 firsts for higher pick draft a legit future number one center our team would be good in 3-4 yrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 CT, Appreciate the enthusiasm/notion, but that's a pretty hefty haul... -Isle have already dealt their 2015 1st(&2nd?) -You wouldn't get BOTH them D, but they've got some nice, young fwds -I bet they could use Kass's size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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