Science Increasingly Makes the Case for God

[Mr.DirtyDangles]

I believe in reincarnation.

In my next life I plan to be Godzilla and protect the earth from giant monsters that bring about danger to our world.

Looks like we will be very close in our next lives ......

Because i am coming back as King Ghidorah >)

[Buddhas Hand]

This planet is so far out in the galactic "boonies" why the hell would any beings waste the fuel to come and see us ? We are infants crawling around looking for our bottle. The earth is hypothesized to be 4.5 billion years old. Mans sheer ignorance that this is the pinnacle of human society right now is the biggest joke of all.

Steel will breakdown and return to it's base elements in only a few thousand years. Plastics, polymers pretty much most artifacts will have been disintegrated by the environment over time.

Carbon dating is proving to be quite inaccurate as well. WE have never had a clue and we are faaaaaaaaar from deducing anything form any morsel of clues that is left form the past 4.5 billion years.

Religion is a faded memory of mans attempt at explaining the unexplainable. Now that science is catching up with our current postulations we may actually start to figure some things out.

The more one learns , the more one realise's how little one knows.

[Buddhas Hand]

I read an article from someone at NASA a long time ago titled "Life as we dont know it" about the potential problems of our first contact with intelligent life to be a species we cant identify as even being alive let alone intelligent. What if they look, and act, just like regular rocks? What if they converse by releasing and inhaling complex mixtures of scents? The potential is infinite. What if communication is impossible? What if common ground cannot be reached? Many questions with few answers.

Human history points to a dark path of us taking whatever we want from them if we can but I hope our future selves are a lot more peaceful/charitable.

Great post mate.

Thanks for mentioning the Nasa article , i had never heard of it .

After checking it out it seems it is a book by Peter Ward

Life as We Do Not Know It: The NASA Search for (and Synthesis of) Alien Life

An engrossing and revelatory first look at the search for alien life—on Earth and beyond For the past twenty years, Peter Ward has been at the forefront of popular science writing, with books such as the influential and controversial Rare Earth. In Life as We Do Not Know It, Ward, with his signature blend of eloquence, humor, and learned insight, vividly details the latest scientific findings, cutting-edge research, and intrepid new theories on the subject of alien life and the possible

Looking forward to getting my hands on a copy

[Lockout Casualty]

And with hours to go in 2014, RR feels he needs to make a push for the Dumbest Thread of the Year award.

This stupidity is giving me headache. There's an ant somewhere on Earth right now making a Fermi argument that there are no life on this planet, therefore god. It's a stupid Paradox. What if we're the first civilization to get off its planet, what if there's life out there but it isn't intelligent and therefore doesn't broadcast? So many what ifs that it's effectively a useless proposition.

And I don't know where there's a god or not, but I do know if there is, he won't be your god. Sorry (I'm not really sorry).

[Hodgson!!]

To the person who stated "Greater scientists believed in God" ---

This is only true for the scientists of the past, where an understanding of even basic biology was barely there.

Everyone in that time was religious, even Newton, because many phenomenons can't be explained by science.

This is why the religiosity percentage of scientists has gone down significantly in the past decade or so.

When Einstein and Hawking refer to God, they are referring to the underlying mechanisms of the universe.



The chances of life being naturally created is very low, but when you have billions of years, billions of planets with an almost infinite amount of chemicals, something is bound to happen. It still may be relatively low, but we shouldn't say it was a supernatural event until we know that it's impossible. Many things were thought to be done by a supernatural being, but many things are getting explained every year in the past few centuries. The reason scientists say they don't know what started life, is because they aren't sure what the exact process was. They know MANY possibilities where strands of RNA and Amino acids can be created , but it's impossible to tell.

Here are some facts : (They are called theories because theories explain natural phenomena and facts. For example, the theory of evolution is the mechanisms of the phenomena where animals change, just like the theory of gravity explains how gravity works )

Evolution created all the species and kinds of animals. Our great understanding of DNA, and fossils prove it. Aside from that, we've observed natural selection multiple times, in animals AND in bacteria and viruses.

All the matter in the universe was created by the big bang. The Big Bang theory is worded pretty badly, the title "The everywhere expansion" would explain it better. Every point of space expanded at one point, and the way the universe is expanding (Red shift) is enough proof for many physicists and astronomers. Aside from that, the ratio of light elements to the heavier elements created by supernovas, the prediction of the cooling of the universe (Cosmis background radiation), and the waves of inflation that were detected and currently being reviewed provides enough evidence.

The earth IS 4.5 billion years old +/- 100 million years. Radiometric dating is extremely accurate. The reason creationists think that dating is off, is because they misuse carbon dating. Once you use carbon dating on anything older than 60k years old, things will get wacky.

In response to the fine tuning of the universe, we have to understand the anthropic principle. "Universe must be compatible with the conscious and sapient life that observes it."

This means that, because life and matter are able to exist, we shouldn't be surprised that we have a specific set of laws that are extremely rare. Every single set of laws are equally rare, and it just so happens that we have gotten this set, and we are able to live in this universe and ask these questions because we have them.

Some scientists believe in a multiverse, where every possible set of laws exist, and we live in this one, because this one has the laws to support life.

Even though the laws "fined tuned" for matter to have mass etc., the universe is definitely not fine tuned for us. We're on an atom of a grain of sand on a huge beach. We have no access to other planets, and even on this grain of sand, many things have evolved to kill us. Aside from that, we're only able to live on 10 percent of this planet, and our technological advancements are what allowed us to inhabit the whole planet.

On the creation of the universe -

Many modern physicists have agreed that a universe without a creator is completely plausible. Do we KNOW that there was no god? No. There is no evidence from the beginning of time, but we know that we do not NEED a god for the universe to be created.

How? Energy in a system is always conserved. Our universe has a total energy of zero. (Gravity = negative, matter = positive) You can have a system with zero energy but have matter and anti-matter be created from this, with no work required. Few people have a good understanding of this, so read Lawrence Krauss' book to get a good understanding. Our universe is basically an extremely complex version of nothing, since if you add everything up, there is zero energy.

I'm not saying that god doesn't exist. I'm just trying to state that the universe makes perfect sense without one.

Edit : Many scientists have a perfect explanation for the fermi paradox. Search up Bill Nye's explanation on youtube for a good response.

[Tortorella's Rant]

To the person who stated "Greater scientists believed in God" ---

This is only true for the scientists of the past, where an understanding of even basic biology was barely there.

Everyone in that time was religious, even Newton, because many phenomenons can't be explained by science.

This is why the religiosity percentage of scientists has gone down significantly in the past decade or so.

When Einstein and Hawking refer to God, they are referring to the underlying mechanisms of the universe.

The chances of life being naturally created is very low, but when you have billions of years, billions of planets with an almost infinite amount of chemicals, something is bound to happen. It still may be relatively low, but we shouldn't say it was a supernatural event until we know that it's impossible. Many things were thought to be done by a supernatural being, but many things are getting explained every year in the past few centuries. The reason scientists say they don't know what started life, is because they aren't sure what the exact process was. They know MANY possibilities, but it's impossible to tell.

Here are some facts : (They are called theories because theories explain natural phenomena and facts. For example, the theory of evolution is the mechanisms of the phenomena where animals change, just like the theory of gravity explains how gravity works )

Evolution created all the species and kinds of animals. Our great understanding of DNA, and fossils prove it. Aside from that, we've observed natural selection multiple times, in animals AND in bacteria and viruses.

All the matter in the universe was created by the big bang. The Big Bang theory is worded pretty badly, the title "The everywhere expansion" would explain it better. Every point of space expanded at one point, and the way the universe is expanding (Red shift) is enough proof for many physicists and astronomers. Aside from that, the ratio of light elements to the heavier elements created by supernovas, the prediction of the cooling of the universe (Cosmis background radiation), and the waves of inflation that were detected and currently being reviewed provides enough evidence.

The earth IS 4.5 billion years old +/- 100 million years. Radiometric dating is extremely accurate. The reason creationists think that dating is off, is because they misuse carbon dating. Once you use carbon dating on anything older than 60k years old, things will get wacky.

In response to the fine tuning of the universe, we have to understand the anthropic principle. "Universe must be compatible with the conscious and sapient life that observes it."

This means that, because life and matter are able to exist, we shouldn't be surprised that we have a specific set of laws that are extremely rare. Every single set of laws are equally rare, and it just so happens that we have gotten this set, and we are able to live in this universe and ask these questions because we have them.

Some scientists believe in a multiverse, where every possible set of laws exist, and we live in this one, because this one has the laws to support life.

Even though the laws "fined tuned" for matter to have mass etc., the universe is definitely not fine tuned for us. We're on an atom of a grain of sand on a huge beach. We have no access to other planets, and even on this grain of sand, many things have evolved to kill us. Aside from that, we're only able to live on 10 percent of this planet, and our technological advancements are what allowed us to inhabit the whole planet.

On the creation of the universe -

Many modern physicists have agreed that a universe without a creator is completely plausible. Do we KNOW that there was no god? No. There is no evidence from the beginning of time, but we know that we do not NEED a god for the universe to be created.

How? Energy in a system is always conserved. Our universe has a total energy of zero. (Gravity = negative, matter = positive) You can have a system with zero energy but have matter and anti-matter be created from this, with no work required. Few people have a good understanding of this, so read Lawrence Krauss' book to get a good understanding. Our universe is basically an extremely complex version of nothing, since if you add everything up, there is zero energy.

I'm not saying that god doesn't exist. I'm just trying to state that the universe makes perfect sense without one.

It was a strong notion at the time that people were born believing in god. Obviously that is not the case.

[Remy]

And I don't know where there's a god or not, but I do know if there is, he won't be your god. Sorry (I'm not really sorry).

Wait, are you telling me that our lack of finding life on other planets does NOT mean that a burning bush talked to Moses? Come on man, I think the link is pretty airtight.

I just don't understand how people can say "the universe is too complicated to have happened by accident, therefore, God" and not realize that they're simply replacing one unexplainable for another. So it's okay that God is eternal and has no beginning or ending, but goodness, it would just be silly to posit the same about the universe!

Or, "this is too complex to have happened by accident, so something even more complex must have pre-existed to create it." So because something is "too complicated" the answer is somehow something even more complicated? Silly logic.

[TheRussianRocket.]

And with hours to go in 2014, RR feels he needs to make a push for the Dumbest Thread of the Year award.

This stupidity is giving me headache. There's an ant somewhere on Earth right now making a Fermi argument that there are no life on this planet, therefore god. It's a stupid Paradox. What if we're the first civilization to get off its planet, what if there's life out there but it isn't intelligent and therefore doesn't broadcast? So many what ifs that it's effectively a useless proposition.

And I don't know where there's a god or not, but I do know if there is, he won't be your god. Sorry (I'm not really sorry).

You mad?

Relax bud, have a few drinks. Mention God and you start crying.

[Dral]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/eric-metaxas-science-increasingly-makes-the-case-for-god-1419544568

For those who feel threatened for whatever reason by a simple postulation that God may exist, relax. Metaxas isn't demanding you believe in God.

He's pointed out the universe is filled with extraordinary order and the odds for just our planet (us) to be here is ridiculous, suggesting of a higher power "something--or Someone--beyond itself.", and then the odds of the universe to perfectly expand to make life and everything else possible.

It's quite funny how atheists are negative when someone has the temerity to suggest God exists. I mean, I'm not anti-science or anything lol. Heck, it's what's advanced human civilization and arguably allowed us to not become extinct yet. However when it comes to the universe and it's origins though, I'm clearly open to the thought of God. "The fine-tuning necessary for life to exist on a planet is nothing compared with the fine-tuning required for the universe to exist at all."

...try acting civil and not killing yourselves

I don't feel threatened when someone postulates that God may exist. I honestly don't care what you believe.

But it really pisses me off when people write articles like this with a title claiming that "Science" in any way shape or form has an opinion on God's existence. IT DOES NOT. Science has NO opinion one way or another - it doesn't say there could be one, or there might be one or there definitely isn't one, it doesn't make a case either way.

This is simply a religious person using pseudo-science, fallacious reasoning and jargon to re-affirm their belief in some mystical power - which again I don't really care about until you come in here and tell all us "Hey look! Science says there's probably gotta be a God!"

Bovine Feces.

God is not allowed in the realm of Science at all. Neither are unicorns, leprechauns and other divine beings.

People who use the scientific method can freely believe in God, or witch craft or the easter bunny, but they can not use science to even talk about it.

edit:

PS - and Yes, I would berate someone just as much if they posted an article claiming Science has proven God does not exist.

[Hugor Hill]

People who use the scientific method can freely believe in God, or witch craft or the easter bunny, but they can not use science to even talk about it.

My position exactly. The Calgary Christian school article is even worst.

[Lockout Casualty]

You mad?

Relax bud, have a few drinks. Mention God and you start crying.

Do I really seem so upset? I guess stupidity has a stronger effect on me than I suspected.

[TheRussianRocket.]

Do I really seem so upset? I guess stupidity has a stronger effect on me than I suspected.

Hahahaha

For those who feel threatened for whatever reason by a simple postulation that God may exist, relax. Metaxas isn't demanding you believe in God.

It's quite funny how atheists are negative when someone has the temerity to suggest God exists.

"It doesn't go hand in hand with what I believe? Let me take my emotions out on this forum!"..good thing is isn't real life, wouldn't want to see you act like this when something is being talked about that you don't like hearing

[VICanucksfan5551]

Oh dear, another hilariously fallacious article from RR . I think it's been sufficiently torn apart by people in this thread already.

Another thing is we dont know how life is created. We assume life is common throughout the universe. Thats a bold assumption considering that we dont know how it begins. We cant make life out of its inorganic compounds. All determined efforts to create life in a lab have failed. We can take and egg and sperm and mix them but they are already alive. We can take a seed and split it to make 2 seeds but we cant make a seed from scratch. We can create amino acids and other building blocks of life but they are not themselves alive.

IF life began in earths primordial ooze it should be possible to do it in a lab. it should be easy. But we cant. Theres the "life began due to a unknown natural mechanism that no longer exists" Theory but thats just a cover for our ignorance.

If life came to Earth on an asteroid then its origins are completely unknown, and not of this earth.

Until we have an understanding of a completely natural way life is created the question of whether there is a "God" or not will have weight.

P.S. if the theory that there is a natural law that "Over time things naturally become more complex" is proven true that will help a lot.

What are you basing this on? Given that the current hypotheses for abiogenesis involve tons of time and many incremental steps to create recognizable life, I'm not sure why it would be considered easy to replicate in its entirety in a lab.

Also, even if we do manage to fully replicate abiogenesis, I'm not really sure that eliminates the "need" for a deity in the eyes of theists. They can always point back to the unexplained ultimate beginnings of the universe, even if conceding that life could demonstrably come about naturally.

[Hodgson!!]

Oh dear, another hilariously fallacious article from RR . I think it's been sufficiently torn apart by people in this thread already.

What are you basing this on? Given that the current hypotheses for abiogenesis involve tons of time and many incremental steps to create recognizable life, I'm not sure why it would be considered easy to replicate in its entirety in a lab.

Also, even if we do manage to fully replicate abiogenesis, I'm not really sure that eliminates the "need" for a deity in the eyes of theists. They can always point back to the unexplained ultimate beginnings of the universe, even if conceding that life could demonstrably come about naturally.

^^^^

It's pretty impressive we've been able to get RNA and Amino acids, even though that isn't really life. I agree with your second point. Even though the evidence for evolution is overwhelming, many creationists still deny it..

Some people are just too ignorant..

[Dral]

Hahahaha

"It doesn't go hand in hand with what I believe? Let me take my emotions out on this forum!"..good thing is isn't real life, wouldn't want to see you act like this when something is being talked about that you don't like hearing

For those who feel threatened for whatever reason by a simple postulation that God may not exist, relax.

It's quite funny how theists are negative when someone has the temerity to suggest God doesn't exists.

Lets try not to forget that it wasn't too long ago that if someone even dared to think that there was no God, or that the Sun revolved around the Earth, they'd be burned at the stake. By my historical counting, we have a long way to go before theists can justifiably feel outraged towards atheists for speaking up and voicing their opinion.

[Dral]

Greater scientists believed in God.

I've heard of theists who call themselves scientists, but I've never met a scientist who calls himself a theist

[VICanucksfan5551]

I've heard of theists who call themselves scientists, but I've never met a scientist who calls himself a theist

I know a bunch. Atheism tends to be the norm in science, but theists aren't exactly uncommon.

[Dral]

I know a bunch. Atheism tends to be the norm in science, but theists aren't exactly uncommon.

Hush!

I'm attempting to use similar rhetoric techniques to belittle the view points of others

[DarthNinja]

You mad?

Relax bud, have a few drinks. Mention God and you start crying.

He cries a lot about a lot of things actually. He's like some kind of perma-tear!

[peaches5]

Weve barely scratched the surface searching for signals. SETI barely had any funding and they only searched like 1% of the sky.

We will know definitively in the next 30 years if there is life out there and if there isn't this is one big giant joke.

Okay no 1% of the sky? try like .00000000000000000000000000001 we haven't even searched 1% of our own milky way galaxy. This is not an issue of funding its an issue of relevance. How common is life? we don't know we may never know what we do know is the universe is massive far greater than what anyone imagined and that's just what we can see and understand. There is no "is there life out there" its where is it and is it intelligent; that's getting off track though let me get back on track. We as humans have been dominating the earth for around 3000 years of those 3000 years we've only been able to send out radio waves for the past century. In the age of the universe which is estimated be around 19 billion years old 100 years is less than a blink of the eye. What are the chances that 2 intelligent life forms on 2 different separate planets both lived at the same time close enough to each other to receive and reply to a message from space.