Nick Bonino playing himself out of the second line center position

[Stormriders]

Bonino is younger than Kesler, his potential is greater and he's on an unbelievable contract. Kesler is over rated. His faceoff and hitting ability will always be greater than Boninos but you don't lose too much else. He's just having a cold month, he's proven his talent.

Kesler is -2

Bonino is 4

6 plus minus differential is significant.

Edit: It is the Bonino trade.

In what universe is Bonino's potential greater than Kelser. Regardless of what you think of Kelser, he is still one of the best shutdown centres in the league and I doubt Bonino will ever score more goals or have more points than Kelser. That's not even a discussion.

His +/- is distorted due to his quick start. In the last 13 games he is a -7. What some people on here do NOT get is he has NEVER PROVEN HIMSELF a #2 centre, and certainly isn't doing it now. If we are honest he looks like a decent 3rd line centre [although needs to be better on the dot], playing with 3rd line wingers. What we need is a whole new 2nd line. None of them are 2nd line players. They are good 3rd liners with the ability to move up on a temporary basis, and Bonino is no different.

[excluding Vey, who has shown some talent, but has not yet proven himself - still a rookie]

[CanadianRugby]

Sad thing is he still has the 4th best points per game (0.58) on the team.

[khay]

Inserting Kassian on 2RW seems to be the only thing left to try at this point. I don't understand why we wouldn't try Kass with Bonino. Bonino is here to stay for at least few seasons, Kass is here to stay unless we plan on trading him. So why not play those two guys together and let them develop some chemistry as a second line?

[Stormriders]

Bonino can bring a bag of popcorn and eat it at center ice and he will still be our 2c. We don't have anybody that can fill his role.

Now that is an honest statement. I don't like it, but as a famous man recently said, it is what it is.

[Webster6]

I think there are fair arguments either way. In defence of Bonino's play, and exposing the negatives and inconsistencies. If he is apparently 100th in league scoring among 180 other top six players. That's not bad. We'll know what we really have by the end of next season. For now lets not be too quick to throw him to the wolves. He has some good things going for him. He just needs to build on it.

[Time Lord]

There's 90 'first liners' in the NHL. 90 'second liners' in the NHL. Bonino is 100th in scoring. Bjugstad, Duchene, Henrique, Marchand, Johansson, Staal, Nielsen, O'Reilly, Eberle, and Jagr are all of the players who have 21 points. And, of those 11 players, Bonino has the third lowest TOI/GP (16:59).

I don't know why people are now jumping off the Bonino bandwagon. People were stupid to claim he was better or on par with Kesler when he was hot, but now people are acting like he's not a top six player. He's playing with third liners people, come on.

lol, bonino is going to have the same problem kesler did. third liners around him for years.

I agree with most of this.

Bonino is a second line center. He is in a slump. Before his slump, he was nearly a point per game and challenging the Sedins for the team lead in points. I will never, ever believe a player with that much skill is a 3rd-liner.

On the defensive side of things, if you watch closely, you would realize he does the little things that make the team better defensively. He's basically like Kesler, but not as experienced (so not as good), but more often than not he has better chemistry with our players than Kesler did.

For the people saying we lost the trade, remember that Sbisa and McCann were part of it too.

And as BanTSN and others have said, we need him to be the 2nd line center whether we like it or not, and the team would be a lot worse without him.

[Time Lord]

And it's unfair to say his slump is completely his fault. He has linemates. He isn't the only one on the ice.

[Fozzy]

Nope. Give him time. He'll be a second line center on a cup champion in one of the next three years.

He's had a rough stretch. He'll turn it around.

Who's he getting traded to?

[Tortorella's Rant]

WTF HAS HAPPENED TO NICK BONINO?

I guess Anaheim knew he was a 3rd line center all along. He looks lost.

That's what I was worried about. I had a feeling he would struggle to keep up production. Obviously he wasn't going to keep the pace he was scoring at, few do, but certainly doing a helluva lot better than what he's giving us shouldn't have been out of the question.

[oldnews]

1 goal in his last 22 games played. That beats out any quiet stretch he had all last season. But don't worry. His 'underlying numbers' are all still good, right?

As I've been saying all along, there was a pretty good chance that we were going to wear Bonino out if we played him a lot of minutes in the role we needed him to play here. Last year he had a pretty good job, getting Getzlaf-Perry power play time, a lot of 2nd assists there, and was behind a bunch of centers in their es deployment depth chart.

Early in the season people tooted some horns about Bonino's production and how the Kesler trade should be called the Bonino trade, etc. and all I said was, 'it is early, wait and see.' Now I think we are seeing the reality here.

Not that I'm stepping on anyone's toes. I think everyone had realistic expectations of what Bonino could deliver. He was never going to be a replacement for Kesler. He's just been a fairly effective stop gap for us while this team continues the process of a rebuild.

Can you imagine this team without Bonino? We'd lack a bunch of faceoff capability for starters, and the shot totals against would be much, much worse than they are now. We needed a center in return for Kesler, just to maintain a respectable NHL lineup, and that's what we have. In fact, more than respectable. No, we're not going to win a cup, but for better or worse, we're going to have a decent shot at the playoffs this year. Hopefully we won't finish just out of the playoffs, because that would be extremely stupid to do during a rebuild, but hey, we could at least say we almost made the playoffs in 2015 in that case, right?

I don't want to get too down on Bonino though. He's done fairly well. People probably should not have expected a 2nd line center, but if we throw him into that role, whatever. I think part of his production problem is that he may be playing hurt. The other part is that Hamhuis is out, and that's a HUGE hole in our puck control defense. If Bonino still struggles upon Hammer's return, then that's that.

It is mentioned time and time again that strength up the middle is what you need. Thank God we brought in Horvat, because Vey isn't a center and for some reason Matthias isn't being tried there. I would continue to find ways to spread the icetime around further though. It's a long season, and players need to be kept as fresh as possible.

Lololoook who's still peddling his misconceptions, with a new revisionist flavour.

Virtually everything you claimed in the preseason thread was patently false and still is.

1) You tried to peddle the myth that Bonino needed to be sheltered and would be exposed defensively in a second line role. Fact: he is facing the strongest quality of competition of any forward on the team this season (second only to Hamhuis) - with primarily defensive zone starts - and yes, his underlying numbers are quite strong - something someone like yourself clearly doesn't understand, but the ironic reality is that Bonino is vastly better defensively than you thought he was. But again, if you knew what you were talking about in the first place, you wouldn't have been selling such a pretender's story..

Here's a source where you can start your homework. It's not too late to inform yourself.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=30&s=14&f1=2014_s&f2=5v5&f5=VAN&f7=5-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

2) You tried to peddle the myth that he needed powerplay 2nd assists with Getzlaf and Perry to prop up his production in order to pad his stats. Virtually all Bonino's production this year has been five on five, again, against the strongest quality of competition on the team, and with primarily defensive zone starts. .58 ppg despite his slump. You're once again speaking way too soon Ban. Even with this slump Bonino is still at a 48 point pace - and aside from the production, absolutely nothing to indicate that he can't handle his second line role - in fact, anyone who bothers to understand the parts of the game you only posture to, would realize this.

Here's another source for you:

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=30&s=63&f1=2014_s&f2=5v5&f5=VAN&f7=5-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

Bonino - lowest offensive zone starts among Canuck forwards. Clearly needs to be "sheltered", right .

3) You tried to peddle the myth that Bonino needs superstars to drag him into the top 6, to mask his deficiciencies. Who are these superstars that are creating the illusion that he is a quality puck possession player? Nice story Ban, but that part, like the rest, remains a fail.

4) You tried to peddle the myth that Bonino's primary asset to the team would be his ability to win faceoffs - and comically, you still are, despite the fact he's the weakest faceoff guy among Canuck centers at 47.4% - Henrik, Richardson and Horvat are all stronger in the faceoff circle than Bonino - as were all Canuck centers stronger than he was last year. Let's revisit one of your best gems -

"Bonino's most valueable asset to the Canucks at this point is faceoff ability."

If you'd only done your homework instead of posturing. As if the rest wasn't enough, that you laughably picked the one aspect of his game that needed the most improvement and tried to sell it as his strength indicated quite clearly that you knew nothing about the player your were referring to - and still don't.

So pat yourself on the back and try to tell yourself that you knew what you were talking about all along - as ironically, you remain fundamentally wrong on practically all counts.

Don't let the 20 even strength points thus far (a 46 even strength point / 82 game pace), don't let that tell you he's a second line center - virtually all the 3Cs in the NHL are producing at that rate haha. Forget the realities of his situational play - that's all hogwash, that ozone start crapola and that bogus information about his matchups - forget things like takeaways or faceoff percentages - what people here realy need isn't information or objective outcomes....what they need is the Ban "eye test" lol.

You should also ignore the fact he's the third leading penalty killer among Canuck forwards - dumb NHL coaches always elect to use their weakest defensive forwards, the ones that need sheltering, as primary penalty killers, right!

The surprising thing is that you've actually resurfaced attempting to rescue all that crap you peddled.

And while you're at it, hope that Bonino's slump lasts long enough to put your foot that much deeper in, because if you think a player of that quality is going to remain there, your pessimism is bound to disappoint you.

[viking mama]

What's missing? Maybe better out-let passes from D-men? Or possibly the grit, speed, creativity & space created when Burr & Kassian were staples on a line there with him? I dunno,...maybe the full-time return of Hamhuis & the Kassassin will solve what ails everyone.

[Thunder Bunnies]

Inserting Kassian on 2RW seems to be the only thing left to try at this point. I don't understand why we wouldn't try Kass with Bonino. Bonino is here to stay for at least few seasons, Kass is here to stay unless we plan on trading him. So why not play those two guys together and let them develop some chemistry as a second line?

I have to agree with that, it will give Kassian a legitimate shot at proving if he's capable to play in the top-six and it could potentially spark Bonino too.

Sedin - Sedin - Vrbata

Higgins - Bonino - Kassian

Matthias - Richardson - Hansen

Burrows - Horvat - Dorsett

// Vey

[terrible.dee]

Reminds me of what Pat Quinn said about Cliff Ronning in the 90's "He's only a center from the blue line in"

I had some concern prior to the season about Bonino's ability to transition the puck through the neutral zone, and cover the slot/back of the net/Regain possession in the D zone ect. All those OTHER things centers are expected to do.

He's great guy by all accounts but just isn't physically gifted with size and speed, as the season wears on the physical toll starts to become a factor especially if your getting a lot of ice time, and those drawbacks become more apparent.

This is the main reason he's been used on the 3rd line in the past, not due to lack of talent or passion.

That being said, I think he'll pull out of this soon enough and will finish the season with about the amount of points we expected (40-50ish)

The real question is will his presence in other areas become a weak link, something other teams learn to exploit?

As BanTsn said, he was never suited to a Kessler type game, or Kessler like minutes,

We still need that minuete eating/ Pain in the other team's a$$/ Scoring threat, type guy to make playing the Canucks a tough night at the office. Bonino is great, but he'll never fill that role.

[terrible.dee]

I have to agree with that, it will give Kassian a legitimate shot at proving if he's capable to play in the top-six and it could potentially spark Bonino too.

Sedin - Sedin - Vrbata

Higgins - Bonino - Kassian

Matthias - Richardson - Hansen

Burrows - Horvat - Dorsett

// Vey

I don't think WD is too thrilled with Kass at the moment, doesn't want to reward naughty behavior with 2nd line ice time,

[Nicklas Bo Hunter]

21 points in 36 games = ppg of 0.58. Ryan Keslers last year with vancouver- 43 points in 77 games = ppg of 0.56.

Statistically speaking Bonino is doing better than Kesler (Who was always a second line center) when playing with the same wingers.

Not too mention Kesler was always on the PP with the sedins which bonino is not so there is that...

[Rocksterh8]

Never mind Bonino, Where the hell is 7 Million dollar Daniel Sedin gone... he skates up the sideboards with the puck, as soon as a D closes in on him, he flicks the puck and skates away.... does anyone actually watch him.. no touch Daniel....

That my friends is the biggest problem with this team... 7 million wasted on a "no touch player"

NOT GOOD ENOUGH DANIEL shame !!!

[bassetgreg]

Bonino is younger than Kesler, his potential is greater and he's on an unbelievable contract. Kesler is over rated. His faceoff and hitting ability will always be greater than Boninos but you don't lose too much else. He's just having a cold month, he's proven his talent.

Kesler is -2

Bonino is 4

6 plus minus differential is significant.

Edit: It is the Bonino trade.

Kesler plays against the opposing teams top lines

How well would Bonino do against Kopitar or Getzlaf,

[canucklehead44]

Brad Richardson all of a sudden has 2nd line numbers.

Depth.

[Carl's Jn]

your only as good as your line mates are... after all it is a team game and chemistry is everything....

[Carl's Jn]

What's missing? Maybe better out-let passes from D-men? Or possibly the grit, speed, creativity & space created when Burr & Kassian were staples on a line there with him? I dunno,...maybe the full-time return of Hamhuis & the Kassassin will solve what ails everyone.

hit the point right on.....