Nick Bonino playing himself out of the second line center position

[AK_19]

As long as he's playing to his contract I don't have any issues with him. He is definitely one of the best deals on this team.

[sockeye]

Imagine if Bonino was selfish as Kesler and took those 40 shots, he'd have just as many goals as Kesler does now plus have 4 games in hand all the while playing on average 5 mins a game less. Even with Bonino's slump it's still a good trade for both teams and once the next shot goes in for Bonino he'll start scoring again and everyone will be back on the Bonino bandwagon saying that Van won this trade.

I'm not a huge Kes fan but you can't score if you don't shoot. I wouldn't call Kes selfish just because he manages to get a shot at goal.

[Nuxfanabroad]

3~5 weeks back we were all declaring ourselves winners in the big Draft day deal. The original trade-thread was sounding a little smug for my liking.

Was WAY too early to judge such things. Why do we so often put much stock in Oct/Nov.? Time & again(league-wide) you see apparent contenders revert to pretenders, as the holidays roll 'round.

We're on the bubble this yr. Hopefully the vets keep going & health hangs on. A couple big plays/goals by Bonino & Sbisa in spring & we'd all be back on their wobbly wagon.

Just hoping Mr ego doesn't do TOO well down in drought-ville; & especially that McCann becomes a big league-gem.

Lastly, we'll also have to partition part of the DR off as an ol' folks home..goin' grey myself, so let's do this with dignity, shall we?

[apollo]

No signs point to it.

No all signs point to it. New management, new faces, complete overhaul of the team and inspite of it all they are sitting 2nd in the toughest division in hockey. (assuming they can get 1 point in the next 3 games which they have in hand on LA).

Chemistry will build more and more. This team is a contender and Bonino will be a staple on its second line

[singing chef]

It could be debated that our top 6 forwards only have 2 top 6 forwards in Henrik and Vrbata.

This.

Examining the performance of this team from January 2014 to December 2014 and looking at the overall average roster of all 30 NHL teams, our current roster doesn't compare favourably.

Based on performance the past 12 months, how many 1st. line players do we have - perhaps Vrbata, and that's it. The Sedins are very good 2nd. line players now (except for the irrational desire to pass instead of shoot when in the slot, and those dreadful no-look, behind the back passes that are intercepted). Perhaps Bonino is a 2nd. liner, perhaps not.

We have several very good 3rd. liners: Hansen, Burrows, Higgins, Kassian (who might be a 2nd. liner), Matthias, and some very good 4th. liners: Richardson, Dorsett, Horvat (who is just finding his way and will be better). Vey is talented but gets pushed around too much.

On defense, we have only 1 top 2 D man: Edler. Hamhuis and Tanev are useful 2nd. pair D men while Bieksa, Sbisa and Stanton are 3rd. pair D men. Weber is a reserve at best.

On pp we realistically have only 2 players who are consistently good, they being Edler and Vrbata (sniper); the Sedins would be better as 2nd. unit pp. However, on pk we have some gems in Burrows, Hansen, Higgins, Dorsett, Matthias along with Edler & Tanev.

In my opinion, that's where this team is at now and into next year. Fast forward a couple of years and we'll have McCann, Virtanen, Shinakruk, Jensen, Fox, Cassels and Horvat leading the way and hopefully at least 3 of those will become first liners. Otherwise it's a problem. The defense is another story so lets hope for some shining lights developing soon (Forsling, Cederholm).

At least we look strong in Goal for the future, perhaps even with a surfeit of quality Goalies, so a possible trade for quality Defense would be in order.

The above is my opinion, as an avid follower since 1968. I'm not a band-waggon jumper; just a keen observer and one who wishes the best for the team.

Cheers and Happy New Year to all.

[higgyfan]

Only if JB is trading for another C. Can't see Horvat or Richards replacing him.

A slumping Higgins and an average scoring 3rd line W make it pretty hard to get any goals on that line. Higgy will likely return to scoring goals in a awhile and hopefully someone can step into the RW spot and the 2nd line will start getting the goals.

On a contending team, Bones probably is a 3rd line C, but then again, his line mates are 3rd liners as well. Perhaps next year one of the young guys will step up and score on some of those nice passes from Bones.

[BanTSN]

No all signs point to it. New management, new faces, complete overhaul of the team and inspite of it all they are sitting 2nd in the toughest division in hockey. (assuming they can get 1 point in the next 3 games which they have in hand on LA).

Chemistry will build more and more. This team is a contender and Bonino will be a staple on its second line

We're not in the central division.

[thrago]

Isn't this why a guy plays on the second line? If your inconsistent (go on hot and cold streaks) and score 40-60 points your a second line player. 1st liners go hot and cold also but the hot is longer and the cold shorter. As you go down the line up it progresses further with longer cold streaks and shorter hot streaks.

As a player becomes more consistent he moves up the line up or he doesn't and reaches his potential and stays on the line he is on till he retires, moves down the line up or is traded. Bones will likely become more consistent and get more ice time and either be a very good 2nd liner or a poor 1st liner. At the moment in my opinion he fits an average 2nd liner perfectly he had a long hot streak followed by a long cold streak. Hopefully the cold streaks will shorten and he will become a very good 2nd liner.

The big problem is that his cold streak fell into a period where a large part of the line up had a cold streak. If the 3rd line was hot right now we probably wouldn't notice or care much about his cold streak, but as it stands all our lines seem to be in a cold or cool streak which makes it stand out more.

The biggest problem IMO is when your top line isn't a PPG or better your other lines cold streaks stand out like a sore thumb. I think this team is in for a rough 3-5 years as we have no one who looks like a top line player coming up, but who knows people can surprise or a big trade can happen but as the Sedins decline we will have some serious growing pains till someone steps up and steals the 1st line role from them.

All is not lost we have some promising young guys coming up but for every one that surprises us and does better then expected one or more will do worse. The good news is we have more promising young prospects then I can remember in the last 20 years, so the chances that 1 or 2 will exceed expectations and become top line players is rather good, as it stands though it looks like we have a lot of middle 6 forwards coming up.

If we make the playoffs this year it could be the last time for awhile so we should just enjoy it, I'm not saying like it cause I sure don't but the reality is we are rebuilding cause we have no other choice.

If you look at our line up as a whole we have a 1st line that is average and on the downslide. A second line that is about average with some guys on the up swing and some on the down. A pretty solid 3rd with potential to go either way and a 4th that is very solid that should only get better.

Our defense has some good pieces with some getting better some declining and some staying the same over the next few years but probably of average quality overall.

We have very good goaltending that looks like it will stay good with lots of promise for the future. Which really is probably the only reason we are not on the outside of the playoffs looking in already.

[oldnews]

3~5 weeks back we were all declaring ourselves winners in the big Draft day deal. The original trade-thread was sounding a little smug for my liking.

Was WAY too early to judge such things.

Did you read the original trade thread?

I highly doubt it - and if you did, your memory fails you. You should go revisit this (erroneous) perception of yours and re-read what most people here were saying at the time when that deal was cut.

It was closer to a bloody doomsday thread than what your memory suggests. The whining and complaining was deafening actually, with only a few people attempting to point out that Bonino was actually a quality piece coming back in this deal, and that combined with Sbisa's potential and a 1st round pick (despite not a top 10), the Canucks were getting a pretty solid return on a player who'd publicly hamstrung his GM and submitted a list of 2.

You're right about one thing - it was WAY to early to judge that trade a failure.

I'd take that deal all over again today without hesitation.

[bp79]

Lololoook who's still peddling his misconceptions, with a new revisionist flavour.

Virtually everything you claimed in the preseason thread was patently false and still is.

1) You tried to peddle the myth that Bonino needed to be sheltered and would be exposed defensively in a second line role. Fact: he is facing the strongest quality of competition of any forward on the team this season (second only to Hamhuis) - with primarily defensive zone starts - and yes, his underlying numbers are quite strong - something someone like yourself clearly doesn't understand, but the ironic reality is that Bonino is vastly better defensively than you thought he was. But again, if you knew what you were talking about in the first place, you wouldn't have been selling such a pretender's story..

Here's a source where you can start your homework. It's not too late to inform yourself.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=30&s=14&f1=2014_s&f2=5v5&f5=VAN&f7=5-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

2) You tried to peddle the myth that he needed powerplay 2nd assists with Getzlaf and Perry to prop up his production in order to pad his stats. Virtually all Bonino's production this year has been five on five, again, against the strongest quality of competition on the team, and with primarily defensive zone starts. .58 ppg despite his slump. You're once again speaking way too soon Ban. Even with this slump Bonino is still at a 48 point pace - and aside from the production, absolutely nothing to indicate that he can't handle his second line role - in fact, anyone who bothers to understand the parts of the game you only posture to, would realize this.

Here's another source for you:

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=30&s=63&f1=2014_s&f2=5v5&f5=VAN&f7=5-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

Bonino - lowest offensive zone starts among Canuck forwards. Clearly needs to be "sheltered", right .

3) You tried to peddle the myth that Bonino needs superstars to drag him into the top 6, to mask his deficiciencies. Who are these superstars that are creating the illusion that he is a quality puck possession player? Nice story Ban, but that part, like the rest, remains a fail.

4) You tried to peddle the myth that Bonino's primary asset to the team would be his ability to win faceoffs - and comically, you still are, despite the fact he's the weakest faceoff guy among Canuck centers at 47.4% - Henrik, Richardson and Horvat are all stronger in the faceoff circle than Bonino - as were all Canuck centers stronger than he was last year. Let's revisit one of your best gems -

"Bonino's most valueable asset to the Canucks at this point is faceoff ability."

If you'd only done your homework instead of posturing. As if the rest wasn't enough, that you laughably picked the one aspect of his game that needed the most improvement and tried to sell it as his strength indicated quite clearly that you knew nothing about the player your were referring to - and still don't.

So pat yourself on the back and try to tell yourself that you knew what you were talking about all along - as ironically, you remain fundamentally wrong on practically all counts.

Don't let the 20 even strength points thus far (a 46 even strength point / 82 game pace), don't let that tell you he's a second line center - virtually all the 3Cs in the NHL are producing at that rate haha. Forget the realities of his situational play - that's all hogwash, that ozone start crapola and that bogus information about his matchups - forget things like takeaways or faceoff percentages - what people here realy need isn't information or objective outcomes....what they need is the Ban "eye test" lol.

You should also ignore the fact he's the third leading penalty killer among Canuck forwards - dumb NHL coaches always elect to use their weakest defensive forwards, the ones that need sheltering, as primary penalty killers, right!

The surprising thing is that you've actually resurfaced attempting to rescue all that crap you peddled.

And while you're at it, hope that Bonino's slump lasts long enough to put your foot that much deeper in, because if you think a player of that quality is going to remain there, your pessimism is bound to disappoint you.

Oh snap you must have copied and pasted that from my mind cuz i was just about ot write it lol. Very very good points my 2 cents is that he needs better winger heck trow vey and kass and see what happens. at least give the guy a freakin shot. higgi iws done, and hanson has a stipulation in his contract where he turns to crap playing higher then a 4th line roll ive said it before wd needs to stop waiting so long he better have those 3 out on saturday and watch what will happen. if not split the twins up put dan on the 2nd since he thinks he'es hank now anyways. move vey with vrbata and hank and bones dan and kass

[oldnews]

Oh snap you must have copied and pasted that from my mind cuz i was just about ot write it lol. Very very good points my 2 cents is that he needs better winger heck trow vey and kass and see what happens. at least give the guy a freakin shot. higgi iws done, and hanson has a stipulation in his contract where he turns to crap playing higher then a 4th line roll ive said it before wd needs to stop waiting so long he better have those 3 out on saturday and watch what will happen. if not split the twins up put dan on the 2nd since he thinks he'es hank now anyways. move vey with vrbata and hank and bones dan and kass

I'm personally not concerned at all with trying to milk 60 points out of Nick Bonino. I think the extreme misconception around here was that he's a one dimensional forward who'd bring some points and little else. In fact, he is playing a very valuable role to this team even in the last 20 games when he and his linemates have struggled to score. For the first half dozen games or so of that he had a lot of chances and was relatively snake bitten. Recently, admittedly, that line is not producing as much scoring chances in the past handful of games - however, at the same time, he and his linemates are playing a key two way role, and the backside of that role they are playing exceptionally well, something very few people around here expected of Bonino.

Slumps happen to everyone in the NHL - there are literally no exceptions - but the very promising thing about Bonino throughout his scoring struggles of late are that he is nevertheless contributing in ways similar to guys like Burrows or HIggins when they have cold stretches.

I personally prefer the 45-50 point two way player over the one dimensional 60 point every time - and I had a fairly high estimation of Bonino before he got here, but if anything, he has exceeded what I'd hoped he could contribute, despite the dip in production of late. WD is using him like the other premier middle six two way veterans on the team, and that is something that is valuable night in night out, while the offensive production comes when it comes.

And then there is always the bottom line, that he is a 1.9 million cap hit. Aside from some rare ELCs, he is one of the best cap values in the league - and another forgotten aspect of the Kesler deal - Bonino comes at 3.1 million less than Kesler, which constitutes the bulk of the cap hit required to sign Radim Vrbata. The remainder of that cap hit is more than made up in the difference between Sbisa (a second piece in that deal) and Garrison's cap hit. So between moving Kesler and Garrison, and adding Bonino and Sbisa, the Canucks also gained around 5.5 million in cap space.....enter Radim Vrbata - at no assets cost.

Anyone still complaining about these moves of GMJB ought to clear their heads and rethink the larger context.

Kesler wanted out of here. Bonino has filled multiples more than 1/3 (three players returned) or 38% (1.9 vs 5 million cap hit) of his shoes.

Ironically, as Kesler's offensive production exceeds Bonino's (by 6 points made up largely in this last stretch), it is actually Bonino's underlying puck possession (two way) numbers that remain better than Kesler's, as well as some defensive categories like takeaways where Bonino has 26 already (and +10) and blocked shots (Bonino 37 to Kesler 30) - areas that few would have expected Bonino to compete with Kesler. All in all, it's really pointless to claim that Bonino is Kesler's equal or better - but really, it's not such an easy case to make on Kesler's behalf at this point - and no matter how one slices that, it makes Bonino a very successful acquisition.

[Patrick Kane]

oldnews >>> Ban TSN

[BanTSN]

Oh, clearly. However, Bonino is still stone cold.

Rather than going on and on about defending the trade and Benning's other offseason transactions, which is old news, maybe we should discuss finding ways to get Bonino going again, as this slump he's in is quite significant. I'd suggest putting him with Vrbata for a stretch. It's not as if the Sedin line has been overwhelming 5-on-5 as of late.

But maybe Kassian will surprise us and get promoted. Or perhaps what we're really waiting for is Hammer's return.

[StarGirl]

lol, You serious? Do you really believe that ? 6 plus means nothing.

Now, Kesler has over 40 more shots than Bonino. Thats significant.

In what universe is Bonino's potential greater than Kelser. Regardless of what you think of Kelser, he is still one of the best shutdown centres in the league and I doubt Bonino will ever score more goals or have more points than Kelser. That's not even a discussion.

His +/- is distorted due to his quick start. In the last 13 games he is a -7. What some people on here do NOT get is he has NEVER PROVEN HIMSELF a #2 centre, and certainly isn't doing it now. If we are honest he looks like a decent 3rd line centre [although needs to be better on the dot], playing with 3rd line wingers. What we need is a whole new 2nd line. None of them are 2nd line players. They are good 3rd liners with the ability to move up on a temporary basis, and Bonino is no different.

[excluding Vey, who has shown some talent, but has not yet proven himself - still a rookie]

There's too many people here who are wanting to believe that Bonino is better than Kesler for some main reasons like because Kesler wanted out, Bonino's younger than Kesler and Bonino's cheaper than Kesler or whatever reason else-wise. No need to keep pushing facts about Bonino to make it look like the Canucks won the trade. Move on from Kesler, and accept he's better in terms of on-ice plays compared to Bonino. If you want to keep making it like we won the trade, then I think we can only focus on McCann now because Sbisa isn't helping in terms of showing that we're winning from the Kesler trade either.

Bonino has been invisible lately, but I think he's no better than Higgins. Although Higgins got an assist last night with a goal against the Coyotes on that 7-1 victory...Those two are line-mates too. Even Burrows who was moved from their line to the so-called "4th line" is doing better than them after he was moved. Overall, I think it's a 2nd line problem. Not just only Bonino.

[Mathew Barzal]

Called it. We have a bad habit of expecting players to step up instead of playing where they're comfortable. Higgy-Boner-Hansen is a really solid third line, because that is where they can be consistent.

[Junkyard Dog]

Bonino has contributed in other ways besides scoring.

He is 1st in takeaways and 1st among forwards in block shots on our team.

This slump though is ugly.

[vcrguy]

Bonino is younger than Kesler, his potential is greater and he's on an unbelievable contract. Kesler is over rated. His faceoff and hitting ability will always be greater than Boninos but you don't lose too much else. He's just having a cold month, he's proven his talent.

Kesler is -2

Bonino is 4

6 plus minus differential is significant.

Edit: It is the Bonino trade.

Kesler was a cancer in the dressing room (from the reports out there), but to suggest Bonino is better than Kesler in terms of talent is a joke.

Kesler has played in the Cup Finals and been a leader (although a bad one) at the Olympics. Bonino has.........................????............please fill in the blanks for me because until he got traded here I didn't even know who he was.

[morrissex95]

I really wished the Canucks prioritized the rebuild this offseason and acquired the tenth pick, letting Anaheim keep Bonino in the process.

Bonino is definitely a legitimate 2C, but we simply do not have the wingers he needs to be successful.

[BanTSN]

Note that Bonino, stone cold and all, still has as many goals as Daniel Sedin, our $7mil per sniper, er, playmaker.

I guess we can't take Vrbata off the Sedin line after all, because without him there's no finisher on that line.

[guntrix]

Bonino has contributed in other ways besides scoring.

He is 1st in takeaways and 1st among forwards in block shots on our team.

This slump though is ugly.

He's a second line centre (for now). At that position, you need to actually contribute points consistently.