William_Clarkson Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Recently, almost all of their goals have came from the PP. Against Detroit both the goals were on the PP (not counting the empty nets). Against LA only one of the goals was scored 5 on 5 (Vrbata's goal, while Daniel wasn't even on the ice). San Jose was different as all 3 goals were 5 on 5, but Anaheim saw only one goal for Weber (a defenseman). Skipping over Arizona game where Smith played really bad you have against Calgary the only 5 on 5 goal being the empty net. Dallas they got shutout. NYR one goal, when they were already up by 5. Also the fact they've been out shot recently. Do you think the Canucks should change the 5 on 5 lines and if so what would you like to see? I was thinking: Sedin/Sedin/Burrows Matthias/Bonino/Vrbata Higgins/Richardson/Kassian (if you want this to be your go to defensive line swap Kassian with either Burrows or Hansen) Dorsett/Horvat/Hansen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I agree that changing the 5 on 5 lines would help. Although I think splitting up the Sedins could help, not only just them, but the rest of the top 6 as well. I wouldn't mind the setup you made but I'd swap Daniel with Matthias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 More balance on the top 2 lines in other words..... Bonino could certainly benefit from some size on his line. A playmaker wouldn't hurt either. The Sedins do better if there is a credible alternate threat to score. This, I think is why they have been so so 5 on 5 recently. The Canucks are short of 2nd line talent. The most pressing need is defensive depth so if a trade is made, it will be to shore up the D before helping the 2nd line. The Sedins have both become more playmakers than goal scorers. Together, they need a trigger man so if they stay together, Vrbata stays with them. Burrows provided grit and speed to the line and since Daniel is not playing the trigger man role as much any more, Burrows no longer works. Burrows is 33 now and I think he has lost the edge on his speed. Bottom line, nothing changes if the Sedins stay together. It might be worth splitting the Sedins. If this happens, we could have the playmaker (Henrik), the triggerman (Vrbata), and grit (Burrows?) on the top line. 2nd Line, the playmaker (Daniel), triggerman (Bonino) and grit (Higgins?, Hansen?) Consider what happens on the pp though. If you're cherry picking guys from separate lines, things get more complicated. The simplest solution is to develop Kassian to the point where he can be trusted on line 2. This might be what is behind the recent frustrations with respect to Kassian's inconsistent play and slow development. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time Lord Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Higgins - H. Sedin - Vrbata D. Sedin - Bonino - Burrows ? This first line did score a goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 It's funny cause last year we could score 5 on 5 but couldn't score on the PP. And now during this stretch, we are scoring PP goals but not enough even strength. To be honest Edler, Tanev, and Hamhuis are our only great d-man but non of them are scorers anymore(except Tanev, he's was never one to begin with). We need d-man that can score/point netter. Our second line needs a good RW. Higgins/Bonino/....... Kassian needs to prove more so he can get minutes. However that third line looks pretty good with Kassian. Hansen is alright to be honest. But he should only be there temporarily on the second line. Vey needs to be a little more consistent but I don't blame him since a) our whole second line hasn't been consistent, and B )he's just a rookie. I'd say we give Nicklas Jensen a chance and try him out on the second line position. Or swap Kassian with Jensen. Sedin/Sedin/Vrbata <-------- this line needs to stay. Higgins/Bonino/Jensen <-------------- we need try and shake Bonino. That means giving him two goal scorers on his wing. Matthias/Richardson/Kassian <-------- hard checking, speedy wingers that can power their way through the d. Burrows/Horvat/Dorsett(Hansen) <---------------- hard nosed play, causing havoc, shutting down top lines and PKers. Dorsett Vey Just my two cents worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Been saying this since the pre-season. However, if the Sedins are both playmakers now, then they'll need a finisher, and that leaves Vrbata. So there is not a lot of options to get the Bonino line going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanGnome Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 It's so funny to see the posts of "let's split up the Twins". It's been tried so many times since the earliest days of their careers, it didn't work then, hasn't worked since and I severely doubt it will work now. The Sedins are what they are. Aside from the year Hank won the Hart (29 Goals, 112 Points), Neither Sedin have been individualistically good, and Hank was really only that good due to a number of factors: 1. He HAD to be that good, and 2. He was at his peak. The best way to supplement the Sedins is to move out dead weight and augment with T6 UFA signings to ride out their careers, buying time for the young guys in the system (Virtanen, Shinkaruk, Horvat, Jensen, et al) take over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clam linguine Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 It's so funny to see the posts of "let's split up the Twins". It's been tried so many times since the earliest days of their careers, it didn't work then, hasn't worked since and I severely doubt it will work now. The Sedins are what they are. Aside from the year Hank won the Hart (29 Goals, 112 Points), Neither Sedin have been individualistically good, and Hank was really only that good due to a number of factors: 1. He HAD to be that good, and 2. He was at his peak. The best way to supplement the Sedins is to move out dead weight and augment with T6 UFA signings to ride out their careers, buying time for the young guys in the system (Virtanen, Shinkaruk, Horvat, Jensen, et al) take over. What kills me is that splitting them works fine but they always put them back together at the faintest sign of an issue. I would love to see Henrik use his creativity to mentor energetic kids like Kassian and Jensen now, while he still can. Daniel could help whatever line he is put on. Such a no brainer. Their skills are wasted when they are together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adios_Kes Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 It could be worth a try to get more 5 on 5 scoring, also try to get some guys going (Bones). I'd like to see something like: Burr/Hank/Vrbata Dank/Bones/Kass Matthias/Richy/Hansen Higgy/Bo/Dorsett I'd also like to see them try some changes on the PP, even though the 1st unit has been scoring lately (thanks to Burr). It'd be nice to see a bit more balance (2nd unit does nothing). I'm thinking: 1st unit - Dank/Hank/Bones/Burr/Edler 2nd unit - Matthias/Bo/Vrbata/Kass/Sbisa I'm thinking it could help get Bones going, It could be beneficial to Bo's development (offensively) besides that it sucks watching so many PP's start in our own end because of losing draws. Lastly I think that's a 2nd unit that could score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Yes. One problem though is that there isn't really anyone other than maybe Kassian that WD would scratch for Vey, maybe Horvat but I think he has earned his role on the team and is too valuable to replace. Bonino has been getting a free pass for too long, so I think they should try Bonino at Wing. Then have a middle 6 of: Higgins - Vey - Burrows Bonino - Horvat - Kassian Then scratch one of Hansen, Dorsett, Matthias or Richardson and put the other 3 together on the 4th line. Wont happen, but I would like to see some movement on the 2nd line, the way things are currently being handled there is basically no one else besides Bonino that could play center on the 2nd line, so it leaves that spot to be his no matter how he plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yes we can nucks Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Don't mess with the Sedin line. Together they are top 20 scorers. It's risky to break up the only consistent line we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Yes. One problem though is that there isn't really anyone other than maybe Kassian that WD would scratch for Vey, maybe Horvat but I think he has earned his role on the team and is too valuable to replace. Bonino has been getting a free pass for too long, so I think they should try Bonino at Wing. Then have a middle 6 of: Higgins - Vey - Burrows Bonino - Horvat - Kassian Then scratch one of Hansen, Dorsett, Matthias or Richardson and put the other 3 together on the 4th line. Wont happen, but I would like to see some movement on the 2nd line, the way things are currently being handled there is basically no one else besides Bonino that could play center on the 2nd line, so it leaves that spot to be his no matter how he plays. I've been saying this for more than a year. That is really up to Kass? I remember last year and Kass was playing 4th line, with and at a time Archibald was called up. I called out Kassian because Archibald went balls in both fore-checking and in to board battles when Kassian was a passenger. But as the year went on he improved his effort. He has started to go much harder at fore checking and board battles. But not to the intensity of, say, a Burrows or Dorsett. He is however very good at back checking, positionally sound and is a good possession player and is a match up handful with his physique. So he became the equivalent of 2knd line player and is pretty much a 3rd line player. Well, the only other thing that has changed in the equation is there is more competition. Out goes, Booth, Santorelli, who was not there when Kass was doing well anyway, and Kesler. In comes Bonino, Vey, Horvat, Mathias, Dorsett and Vrbata. He can lose that 3rd line status in amongst it. The bottom line to me is that if Kassian matches Vey in work ethic he's going to stay in. Both have a viable talent to offer. But Zack is 6'3'' and 215 lbs which is useful in other ways. But the message for both should be to lift their effort to match that of proven pro's ahead of them in the pecking order. Play the game as hard as Hansen, Burrows and Dorsett boys. Mathias is getting the message? Then you would find Benning moving a body to make room for them up the line up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesman60 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 It's funny cause last year we could score 5 on 5 but couldn't score on the PP. And now during this stretch, we are scoring PP goals but not enough even strength. To be honest Edler, Tanev, and Hamhuis are our only great d-man but non of them are scorers anymore(except Tanev, he's was never one to begin with). We need d-man that can score/point netter. Our second line needs a good RW. Higgins/Bonino/....... Kassian needs to prove more so he can get minutes. However that third line looks pretty good with Kassian. Hansen is alright to be honest. But he should only be there temporarily on the second line. Vey needs to be a little more consistent but I don't blame him since a) our whole second line hasn't been consistent, and B )he's just a rookie. I'd say we give Nicklas Jensen a chance and try him out on the second line position. Or swap Kassian with Jensen. Sedin/Sedin/Vrbata <-------- this line needs to stay. Higgins/Bonino/Jensen <-------------- we need try and shake Bonino. That means giving him two goal scorers on his wing. Matthias/Richardson/Kassian <-------- hard checking, speedy wingers that can power their way through the d. Burrows/Horvat/Dorsett(Hansen) <---------------- hard nosed play, causing havoc, shutting down top lines and PKers. Dorsett Vey Just my two cents worth. I agree with most of what you said but I really think we should be looking to get some firepower on the 1st line that can dictate the game like Toews/Kane do. To me the Sedins would be a great 2nd line. That should be what the Canucks strive for....come up with a new 1st line that can dominate the play. Maybe that will happen when some of the rookies take the giant step but it will most likely have to happen via the trade route. Right now I don't feel like we have a true #1 line. Kassian is not the answer to the 2nd line either to increase the scoring threat....he is more suited for a 3rd line roll unless he is out with a centre and a winger who are big goal producers. I don't see anyone on the top 2 lines who you could call a consistant natural goal scorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolboarder Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I would try a line change for first two period and if the 5 on 5 does not achieve desired result then go back to the line-up for the third period. Here is what I'm thinking. Since Burrows can play on both wings, why not go for: Burrows - H. Sedin - Vrbata D. Sedin - Bonino - Kassian Matthais - Richardson - Hansen Dorsett - Horvat - Higgins/Vey If Vey mesh with Horvat and Dorsett well and the top 9 works pretty well together then trade Higgins for some help on the blueline and call up Jensen at the trade deadlines. If this does not work for the top line then reunited with the twins and Vrbata and tinker the second line and put Kassian with Bonino and Vey. I do not think that Higgins and Bonino works well together offensively lately. I would try Higgins and Hansen if the third line combo is not working and try the duo with Richardson and put Matthais with Horvat to see how they might work out. I think Burrows might mesh with the top line is the net presence and Henrik is a play maker and Vrbata is a shooter and Burrows knows how to play Sedinery game pretty well. Daniel Sedin should play with Bonino and Kassian and Daniel is a play maker now and should help Bonino's game for a couple of games. This line-up change should be temporary to mix things up and can go back to the line-up anytime whenever they see fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William_Clarkson Posted January 5, 2015 Author Share Posted January 5, 2015 Don't mess with the Sedin line. Together they are top 20 scorers. It's risky to break up the only consistent line we have. I'd keep the top powerplay unit the same, but 5 on 5 they don't produce that consistently. Better than the other lines obviously, but they're the 3 most offensively talented forwards and the depth goal scoring is drying up. I agree with most of what you said but I really think we should be looking to get some firepower on the 1st line that can dictate the game like Toews/Kane do. To me the Sedins would be a great 2nd line. That should be what the Canucks strive for....come up with a new 1st line that can dominate the play. Maybe that will happen when some of the rookies take the giant step but it will most likely have to happen via the trade route. Right now I don't feel like we have a true #1 line. Kassian is not the answer to the 2nd line either to increase the scoring threat....he is more suited for a 3rd line roll unless he is out with a centre and a winger who are big goal producers. I don't see anyone on the top 2 lines who you could call a consistant natural goal scorer. I'd consider Vrbata a natural goal scorer. He's not Ovechkin or Stamkos, but he is definitely a respectable trigger man for the 1st or 2nd line. Also, I think that in the next few years the Canucks should get a 2nd line to contrast the Sedins and be a more defensive line, that scores consistently as well. Horvat would probably be the center of that line, but his offense would need to develop well, although if he has a guy like Shinkaruk or Virtanen beside him he may be able to score effectively. Also, the Sedins will need a new winger at some point since Vrbata probably won't be here in the tail end of the Sedins' contracts. Much like the Krejci/Bergeron duo in Boston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I've been saying this for more than a year. That is really up to Kass? I remember last year and Kass was playing 4th line, with and at a time Archibald was called up. I called out Kassian because Archibald went balls in both fore-checking and in to board battles when Kassian was a passenger. But as the year went on he improved his effort. He has started to go much harder at fore checking and board battles. But not to the intensity of, say, a Burrows or Dorsett. He is however very good at back checking, positionally sound and is a good possession player and is a match up handful with his physique. So he became the equivalent of 2knd line player and is pretty much a 3rd line player. Well, the only other thing that has changed in the equation is there is more competition. Out goes, Booth, Santorelli, who was not there when Kass was doing well anyway, and Kesler. In comes Bonino, Vey, Horvat, Mathias, Dorsett and Vrbata. He can lose that 3rd line status in amongst it. The bottom line to me is that if Kassian matches Vey in work ethic he's going to stay in. Both have a viable talent to offer. But Zack is 6'3'' and 215 lbs which is useful in other ways. But the message for both should be to lift their effort to match that of proven pro's ahead of them in the pecking order. Play the game as hard as Hansen, Burrows and Dorsett boys. Mathias is getting the message? Then you would find Benning moving a body to make room for them up the line up! I was actually impressed by Kassian's defensive game last game, he make some nice plays, was backchecking well. I was just saying in my last post thought that WD isn't willing to scratch anyone other than Kassian for Vey, not that he should scratch Kassian. WD doesn't seem to be willing to scratch vets, which is sometimes a problem, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yes we can nucks Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Don't mess with the Sedin line. Together they are top 20 scorers. It's risky to break up the only consistent line we have. I'd keep the top powerplay unit the same, but 5 on 5 they don't produce that consistently. Better than the other lines obviously, but they're the 3 most offensively talented forwards and the depth goal scoring is drying up. They do get a lot of their points on the pp. But no more in proportion to their total points than other top players with similar points: Henrik, 12 ppp out of 34 pts Daniel, 14 out of 35 Tavares, 14 out of 34 OV, 13 out 34 Stamkos, 16 out of 38 There are lots more examples. So I don't think it's a case of them not being consistent enough 5 on 5. If so, they're in pretty good company. Again... don't break up a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tragoedia Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 They do get a lot of their points on the pp. But no more in proportion to their total points than other top players with similar points: Henrik, 12 ppp out of 34 pts Daniel, 14 out of 35 Tavares, 14 out of 34 OV, 13 out 34 Stamkos, 16 out of 38 There are lots more examples. So I don't think it's a case of them not being consistent enough 5 on 5. If so, they're in pretty good company. Again... don't break up a good thing. Agreed. Second line could use some tweaking though. They are playing solid defense for the most part, but their offensive game has hit a wall. The third and fourth are still doing their jobs as well. Right now it's mostly the second that is needing work. When the second does their job, the top line has more freedom and it gives more space for the third and fourth to do be the difference makers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pistolpro327 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I have mixed feelings about the sedin line and splitting them up. Obviously together they are proven to be among the most elite scorers in the league which makes me lean heavily towards don't fix what ain't broken lol. I think if we are not splitting them up, we should go back to Burrows on line 1 and have the top 6 look something like this: Sedin Sedin Burrows Kassian Bonino/Matthias Vrbata I like the energy and size Matthias brings and he seems to have good vision and offensive instincts. He is also right around that age where power forwards start to fully develop and reach that next level. I would love to see him get a shot at the 2nd line C role, especially with another skilled power forward in Kassian and a perfect sniper for the line in Vrbata. Both Kassian and Matthias have shown they can skate, hit and make passes which I think is a perfect fit for Vrbata's style and role. Kassian and Matthias score the dirty goals, bring energy, and create space for Vrbata to shoot at will. (while they make a goalies life hell with their size). All while the Sedins and Burrows reunite 5v5 and live happily ever after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 If we ever want to try splitting the Sedins again I could see something like this working: Vrbata - Sedin - Burrows/Kassian Sedin - Bonino - Kassian/Burrows Matthias - Richardson - Vey Higgins - Horvat - Hansen/Dorsett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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