(Discussion) Vancouver-Buffalo (Grigorenko)

[elvis15]

I have no idea what the Sabres would want for him either to be honest. That's why I haven't commented on proposals regarding just him. I think he could be had at a reasonable cost though. If I were Murray, I'd take a middle (40-45) 2015 2nd round pick for him.

What would you think about something like LaBate and McNally for him? Would it have made sense last year at this time, or does it now? I'm not sure of LaBate's potential for the NHL, and McNally still has some work but is exciting offensively, but I think the value is closer for us than a Higgins/Lack offer.

[Ryan Strome]

Fair enough. Apologies for the comment. I shouldn't post at 2:30 in the morning. I read your comment differently than you had probably intended.

I read through a lot of these when I'm on here and people seem to use trades they don't like as a way to attack or insult other posters. Bad interpretation on my part.

It's all good bud.

[Gollumpus]

With Buffalo having a log jam in the middle with Reinhart, Girgensens, Ennis, Hodgson and potentially another high drafted center this year, Grigorenko is probably available for the right price.

He's a good, skilled center that hasn't done well in Buffalo. He's got the Russian factor but despite being sent to the minors and AHL he hasn't bolted for the KHL so that's a good sign.

We have no offensively gifted young centers in our system. Just a bunch of good two way centers. Grigorenko would be a welcome addition and potential 1C to take over for the Sedin's in a couple years.

They are not really missing anything from their prospect pool besides a good young goaltender and another young winger. They could use some good vets to help bring up their prospects and avoid becoming the Oilers, having a team consisting of junior players and NHLers who couldn't play good defense to save their life.

Would a trade around Higgins and Lack for Grigorenko work? Maybe Jensen? What would it take to pry him out of Buffalo?

I wouldn't be surprised that Hodgson is moved (for anything) before they move Grigorenko for cheap.

regards,

G.

[SabreFan1]

What would you think about something like LaBate and McNally for him? Would it have made sense last year at this time, or does it now? I'm not sure of LaBate's potential for the NHL, and McNally still has some work but is exciting offensively, but I think the value is closer for us than a Higgins/Lack offer.

Those are two positions that the Sabres aren't really in need of. Also, LaBate's game has slightly regressed at University.

I can't offer an honest opinion about McNally because I don't know anything about him.

Any team wanting to pry a player from the Sabres would best be served by offering a winger. The Sabres don't have the same depth there that they have at centre and defense. Although with Nathan Lieuwen stinking up the ice in Rochester, the Sabres are all of a sudden on shaky ground with goaltending. There are more in the prospect pipeline but for now it has the potential for trouble.

[SabreFan1]

I wouldn't be surprised that Hodgson is moved (for anything) before they move Grigorenko for cheap.

regards,

G.

Grigorenko won't be cheap, but he wouldn't be prohibitively expensive either. I think more than one team will take a run at him when the season ends.

As for Hodgson, I can't say enough how much I'm disappointed with him. He's given up. 6 points with a 3.2% shot/goal percentage. I'd also blame him for his -17, but the Sabres have the worst team differential in the league so it wouldn't be fair to hang that on him.

[elvis15]

Those are two positions that the Sabres aren't really in need of. Also, LaBate's game has slightly regressed at University.

I can't offer an honest opinion about McNally because I don't know anything about him.

Any team wanting to pry a player from the Sabres would best be served by offering a winger. The Sabres don't have the same depth there that they have at centre and defense. Although with Nathan Lieuwen stinking up the ice in Rochester, the Sabres are all of a sudden on shaky ground with goaltending. There are more in the prospect pipeline but for now it has the potential for trouble.

LaBate has been playing wing a fair amount actually, and projects on better lines as possibly a winger. I agree he's taken a step back (or in the least hasn't progressed offensively) but he's still an effective player currently. Whether that continues (for McNally as well, who's been excellent offensively this year after his trouble last year, 16 points in 13 games and a strong PMD) in the NHL is another question, but I guess it depend on just how much value Buffalo still thinks Grigs holds.

I think the Sabres will have to figure out what happens between Neuvirth and Enroth as far as goalies (and don't they still have Hackett?) but perhaps there's an option for a goalie in there. We happen to have a few.

[SabreFan1]

LaBate has been playing wing a fair amount actually, and projects on better lines as possibly a winger. I agree he's taken a step back (or in the least hasn't progressed offensively) but he's still an effective player currently. Whether that continues (for McNally as well, who's been excellent offensively this year after his trouble last year, 16 points in 13 games and a strong PMD) in the NHL is another question, but I guess it depend on just how much value Buffalo still thinks Grigs holds.

I think the Sabres will have to figure out what happens between Neuvirth and Enroth as far as goalies (and don't they still have Hackett?) but perhaps there's an option for a goalie in there. We happen to have a few.

Enroth and Neuvirth are likely going to be short term solutions and Hackett is an unknown quantity now that his leg is more prone to be re-injured after seriously hurting it last year. He's only been average this season as a result.

That leaves Linus Ullmark over in Sweden playing for MODO. He tore it up the Swedish league last year with a .931 save percentage, but this year he is riding a sub-par .904.

The other 2 goalie prospects are too early to call. One is 18 and the other is 19.

[terrible.dee]

I've been proposing we gamble on Griegs for a few years now, seems his value is at an all time low,

The more time he spends in the A the more he loses that 1st round shine, BUFF has got to move him before that shine is gone all together,

But at this point the question is, what does BUFF even want?? Certainly picks next year, but aside from that, or any of our more "Shiny"prospects, I think they could probably get better for him elsewhere.

And how good is he really? I used to want to take the chance, but is he at least trending upwards?

[SabreFan1]

I've been proposing we gamble on Griegs for a few years now, seems his value is at an all time low,

The more time he spends in the A the more he loses that 1st round shine, BUFF has got to move him before that shine is gone all together,

But at this point the question is, what does BUFF even want?? Certainly picks next year, but aside from that, or any of our more "Shiny"prospects, I think they could probably get better for him elsewhere.

And how good is he really? I used to want to take the chance, but is he at least trending upwards?

This is Grigorenko's first regular season in the AHL so he still has that shiny new pro smell. He only turned 20 in May. Before this season he was still a teenager playing in juniors, with the exception of when Regier would pull him into the NHL for no good reason and burn time off of his elc.

The only reason that he's been in the Sabres lineup for 10 games so far this year is because due to illness and injuries, Sabres players have been dropping like flies for periods of time.

Murray isn't looking to trade Grigorenko. People are just wondering what it would take to change Murray's mind. I don't know how much it would cost to pry him from the organization.

He had a great pre-season camp, but the Sabres coaches want to keep him in the AHL as much as possible so the Rochester coaches can repair the damage that Regier caused. As to how he's trending, it's too early to tell. He has only played a half season as a full time pro.

In other words, his balls recently dropped and he's no longer in juniors so this is the year that he has to prove himself.

[patrickd73]

He would be an RFA. I had a brain fart and forgot about the compensatory pick. I must be contagious.

He would only be an RFA if the Sabres qualified him. That's why I said wait to see. If they qualify him, you can always pick him up via trade, and if they don't, you can snatch him up for nothing.

[VanGnome]

Instead of trading for an offensively gifted center, we could draft one this upcoming year.

The problem with that, is by the time the prospect is ready to meaningfully contribute at the 1C position (by standard case scenario), would be 6-7 years from the draft (when the player is 24/25). I'm sorry but we just don't have that kind of time if we want to transition directly from the Sedins to what comes next without dropping out of the playoffs for a good 2-3 seasons while our prospects continue to mature.

Trading from positions of strength to fill a need is smart asset management, and I think Grigorenko fills not only the youth and skill quota, but also the size quota.

I would consider a deal of Markstrom, Higgins and a mid pick, 3/4th round.

[SabreFan1]

He would only be an RFA if the Sabres qualified him. That's why I said wait to see. If they qualify him, you can always pick him up via trade, and if they don't, you can snatch him up for nothing.

I understood what you were saying. They'll definitely qualify him. That's a foregone conclusion. That's where his lower potential earnings are important. Like I said earlier, I can't see anybody wanting him for more than 2.5 million per season.

[hlaevang]

What would you think about something like LaBate and McNally for him? Would it have made sense last year at this time, or does it now? I'm not sure of LaBate's potential for the NHL, and McNally still has some work but is exciting offensively, but I think the value is closer for us than a Higgins/Lack offer.

Elvis, I like this actually. Grigorenko is someone I have wanted to see in a Canucks uniform for a long time. What you propose should be enough to get the deal done from what I can see. Realistically we have the pieces to pry him out of Buffalo without having to bargain away our future. he would be a definite upgrade on what we have. And if they are looking for a solid solution in goal for their future, we do have Erikson in Utica.

[elvis15]

Enroth and Neuvirth are likely going to be short term solutions and Hackett is an unknown quantity now that his leg is more prone to be re-injured after seriously hurting it last year. He's only been average this season as a result.

That leaves Linus Ullmark over in Sweden playing for MODO. He tore it up the Swedish league last year with a .931 save percentage, but this year he is riding a sub-par .904.

The other 2 goalie prospects are too early to call. One is 18 and the other is 19.

I wasn't sure if one of them would be longer term with the organization, but I went back and looked at Hackett's stats and they look terrible. Fair enough they could use another a little further along in development.

The problem with that, is by the time the prospect is ready to meaningfully contribute at the 1C position (by standard case scenario), would be 6-7 years from the draft (when the player is 24/25). I'm sorry but we just don't have that kind of time if we want to transition directly from the Sedins to what comes next without dropping out of the playoffs for a good 2-3 seasons while our prospects continue to mature.

Trading from positions of strength to fill a need is smart asset management, and I think Grigorenko fills not only the youth and skill quota, but also the size quota.

I would consider a deal of Markstrom, Higgins and a mid pick, 3/4th round.

Yeah, that's too much for me. We could use his kind of player but there's so much uncertainty that's a lot to give up. And would Higgins even waive to go to Buffalo? Probably not.

Higgins and Markstrom alone would be one thing, but then I'd expect Buffalo to add. Maybe that's not what they'd consider a good deal, but I wouldn't want to overdo it on our end for the risk we'd be getting back.

Good point on the other half of the problem of trying to draft a #1C (beyond doing so with any certainty any time soon given where we'll be in the draft order).

Elvis, I like this actually. Grigorenko is someone I have wanted to see in a Canucks uniform for a long time. What you propose should be enough to get the deal done from what I can see. Realistically we have the pieces to pry him out of Buffalo without having to bargain away our future. he would be a definite upgrade on what we have. And if they are looking for a solid solution in goal for their future, we do have Erikson in Utica.

I'd even consider Markstrom and a secondary piece if that's what it came too. We won't be able to keep all the goalies we have into next season so it'd make sense to move one of them to make the rest happy (assuming Eriksson would be happy still in the AHL but with starter minutes).

[Baer.]

I wasn't sure if one of them would be longer term with the organization, but I went back and looked at Hackett's stats and they look terrible. Fair enough they could use another a little further along in development.

Yeah, that's too much for me. We could use his kind of player but there's so much uncertainty that's a lot to give up. And would Higgins even waive to go to Buffalo? Probably not.

Higgins and Markstrom alone would be one thing, but then I'd expect Buffalo to add. Maybe that's not what they'd consider a good deal, but I wouldn't want to overdo it on our end for the risk we'd be getting back.

Good point on the other half of the problem of trying to draft a #1C (beyond doing so with any certainty any time soon given where we'll be in the draft order).

I'd even consider Markstrom and a secondary piece if that's what it came too. We won't be able to keep all the goalies we have into next season so it'd make sense to move one of them to make the rest happy (assuming Eriksson would be happy still in the AHL but with starter minutes).

All good points, but I feel Markstrom would be stuck behind Enroth much like he is behind Lack here. Benning spoke of interest in giving Virtanen a shot at the big club next season. I also think Jensen, if he keeps up his point totals, has a shot at making the club. Maybe Higgins becomes expendable with our kids trying to fight for a spot. Higgins for Grigs+?

[elvis15]

Interesting alternative but then we're back at whether or not Higgins would waive to Buffalo.

As far as Markstrom, no one's going to trade for him to become a starter right away, but they'll hope he can be a backup for now and develop into one in the next couple years. With Buffalo certainly considering moving one of Enroth or Neuvirth (and also not having them in their long term plans) they'll need a better quality goalie than they have in the system.

Now, I don't now if he'll actually develop well in a system like Buffalo's (or New Jeresey's, who I've suggested we trade him to before) unless he's in a good situation with a quality goalie coach, but he'll need a role in the NHL somewhere since clearing waivers to go to the AHL until he's ready isn't likely any more.

There's something there around getting Grigs though, so hopefully it's something Benning is calling to ask the price at least.

[hlaevang]

My thoughts exactly. Interesting suggestion on Markstrom. As you said, with them having to make a decision on Enroth and Neuvirth, it make more sense from their perspective to snatch up Markstrom in a trade as he would fit their needs going forward. It would relieve our log jam in net at the AHL level allowing Eriksson to try and elevate his game. But Higgins would be a question mark. If he agrees to waive for Buffalo this would be amazing. If he doesn't though, maybe we might be able to swing it including a different forward. Hansen maybe? Or Vey?