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Sole reason why the Canucks won't win the Cup


TheRussianRocket.

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I think people forget that the Twins were back to back nominee's for the Ted Lindsay award. And Danny won it!

That is the Most Outstanding Player as Selected by the Players!

Here we have people on CDC questioning whether the Twins, even in their prime, were game breakers? But the very players themselves thought they were among the top 2 players on the planet!

Crazy really?

I agree with you for the most part RR.

When you look at the guys who often come through for teams in the playoffs, it's the guys you wouldn't expect. Justin Williams and Alec Martinez are prime examples of this from last year's Stanley Cup run for the Kings. Brandon Saad and Andrew Shaw were the clutch performers the previous year for the Hawks.

I guess what I'm saying is that quite often in the playoffs, teams' top lines/players often play eachother to a stalemate. That leaves the door open for these unsung hero's to be the difference makers.

The Canucks problem is that their top players not only can't outplay the other teams' top players in the playoffs anymore, but they can't even play the other team's top lines/players to a stalemate anymore, leaving us with little or no chance of winning a series, let alone going deep into the playoffs.

I really enjoy the portion of this post of yours MJD, that acknowledges the unsung and unexpected hero who surfaces!

For me, I'd like to nominate an unsung character who has not received enough credit this year, nor in our semi-recent run including the 2011 finals appearance;

The COACH!

And last we were near the top, the push came from a big crew, including the Twins, all playing key roles as they came in to their prime at the same time. Bieksa, Edler, Kesler, Burrows and the Twins weren't really young talent. But they did all come together at the same time. Plus they had Lou who was good before. But I believe the coach had much to do with both their development, then their ascent. Our current coach, like AV several years before our best years, started by laying groundwork with effective systems and team play.

We should not be impatient. While this coaching is in place; there is a strong possibility of both superstars and young talent emerging!

Then watch out!

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Well... I was kind of hoping Matthias, Vey, or Horvat would suddenly explode the way ROR did last season. As much as I hate to say it, OP is right, we don't have any game breakers. No one up front is going to be able to step up in the playoffs. The only chance we even have of reaching the finals is if we play the "weaker" teams that make it or if Miller goes overdrive and plays lights out every game.

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You need more than a few "game breakers" to win the cup. Even Super Mario couldn't win a cup until he was surrounded by a solid team. You need a solid team, players getting hot at the right time, solid goaltending, and staying relatively healthy to win the cup.

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20-25% offensive contribution from the d corps is the norm from past cup winners. This team had the best d contribution in the entire league when they went for it. This D's offensive % was 17% last time I ran the numbers,nowhere near the contribution levels of a contender.

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That's Maple Leaf thinking. I'm not saying tank. But that's why the Leafs don't rebuild properly. They keep thinking if you just get into the playoffs who knows what will happen? That same kind of thought is why the Flames took so long to trade Iginla. You have to draft properly, and stock up the system with the best players you can find. You also have to find those late round gems that pan out. And make sure even late first rounders develop and become NHLer's.

I'm all for positivity. But hoping you get a lucky break in the playoffs, doesn't usually get it done.

It helps if you actually MAKE the playoffs, something in which the Flames and Leafs have had a lot of problems doing the last 5 years, combining for 1 playoff appearance. It's hard to make a difference in the playoffs if you NEVER make the playoffs. Players values can drastically change after 1 or 2 series (for better or worse) even if they don't get past the 2nd round. This can make trading easier or give confidence to struggling players. Nearly every good team has a few years of playoff failures before making a significant splash in the post season. I would rather we continue to aim for 8th or better every season to the best of our abilities, and add through smart drafting, trading, player development (this is the main difference between Detroit's prospects in the last 10 years and ours), and free agent signings.

Tanking for a rebuild is extremely risky, and can prolong slumps by 3-5 years before any positive change is made. If we were looking at a best case scenario of 8th-10th with a worst of 11th -13th I might agree, but as it is we are looking at a best of 5th-6th, and a low of 7th-9th. We could absolutely free fall like last year, but that is the case every year for every team. The Blackhawks could tank out of the playoffs; they probably won't (definitely don't hold your breath, the odds are low), but the chance is always there. I think a team is better off with positive messaging moving into the future.

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I think it is way to soon for asserting anything at this point and really up until the trade deadline and beyond.

Depending on where the team is come trade deadline, a move or two could significantly improve the makeup and dynamics of the team heading into the post-season. Like the LA Kings did in 2012 with Carter and again with Gaborik.

You never know what's going to swing where and how.

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Isn't it wonderful how easily people forget this is a reassembled team under a new coach and management.

I for one am happy at our progress and the way we are playing. Of course we have weaknesses, most of them, we have had for a few years now. A lack of brawn at the back and we still lack a firebrand on the 1st line that would snipe and make space for the Sediins and allow Vbrata to drop back to the 2nd.

I am expecting this team to get to the playoffs and if they do I will say the first Linden/Benning/Willie year has been a success, now we notch it up a level.

By the way if you are talking about "game breakers" in the true sense then we already have 2, Bieksa and Burrows. It's all about the heart.

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Before anyone states the obvious by saying we aren't expected to win it all, I'm well aware of that. However, in a case the Canucks make the playoffs (which they look like they will), there's a thing holding the team back from making upsets and advancing further. What is it? Player(s) with game breaking talent.

All Stanley Cup winners have had these players and to put into perspective, the Canucks don't. The Sedins were that a few years ago in their prime but they've slowed down considerably. Even then, the Sedins were never really game breakers. When you think of star players, you think Crosby, Stamkos, Giroux, etc. They have the ability to all of sudden break through and turn the dynamic of the game around in favour of their team. Twins have never had that. You think Sedins, you think of high IQ, passing, patience, set ups, and basically systematically breaking down the defense until they are caught out of position and then a goal. Never really had the ability to just skate in, and just snipe one by. That's not their style of game and as close as they were to being game breakers, they weren't. The Crosby's and Stamkos's are capable of doing that, not the Sedins so I prefer giving the Twins the title of star power but not game breakers and right now where they are in their respective careers, they've lost that title as well.

The closest thing we have to a game breaker is Miller. He's shown in numerous games he has the xfactor to stand on his head and single handedly steal a game for us. Unfortunately, he can't maintain that with our poor defense. He can only do so much before the defensive mishaps just become too overwhelming. Other than that, this team is no where close to having a game breaker and is the main reason they won't be able to win a Cup. Edler? Doubt it as he's on and off and isn't capable of just flipping a switch.

Look at all the SC winning teams and look at the players they had with game breaking ability:

13/14 Kings - Quick, Doughty, Kopitar, Carter, Gaborik, Williams.

12/13 Hawks - Kane, Toews, Keith, Hossa, Sharp, Crawford.

11/12 Kings - Quick, Doughty, Kopitar, Richards, Carter.

10/11 Bruins - Thomas, Chara, Krejci, Bergeron, Lucic, Horton.

09/10 Hawks - Kane, Toews, Keith, Hossa, Sharp, Versteeg, Byfuglien.

08/09 Pens - Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Fleury, Guerin, Gonchar.

07/08 Wings - Lidstrom, Rafalski Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Kronwall.

06/07 Ducks - Pronger, Niedermayer, Selanne, Giguere, McDonald, Getzlaf, Perry

04/06 Canes - Staal, Ward, Stillman, Brind'Amour, Williams, Weight, Recchi.

The trend goes on for all the Cup Winning teams and is crystal clear. You need game breakers to win. When you're down or your team needs a spark, these are the player that break through and push you over the top. Remember 94? Yea, we had that Bure guy and he resembled that description of a game breaker (had McLean and Linden as well obviously). As long as you have these guys, you'll have a chance at winning and if you lose, it's probably because the other team had more of those guys.

Canucks don't have anyone. Miller is the closest thing but he can't do much with our poor defense. Look at the strong contending teams now and you'll see they are contenders b/c they have these types of players. Tampa has Stamkos, Hedman, Bishop, Kucherov. Habs have Price, Subban, Pacioretty. Pens, Isles, Caps, Rangers, Preds, Hawks, Blues, Kings, Ducks, ..they all have game breakers.

And what sucks most is majority the time, these game breaking players have to be drafted, developed, and groomed into the NHL. They don't grow on trees and once in a while they'll be available via trade or free agency but other than that, you have to get them independently. Canucks have some bright prospects with that ability right now so let's hope they're game can successfully transfer over someday and give us that upper hand and edge we so badly need.

Crosby

Iginla

Malkin

That group sure game broke their way out of the conference finals vs Boston in 2013. How many goals did they have between them again? And all you've done with half those players is list the teams top players, not game breakers. The only game breakers LA has is Williams, Quick and maybe Doughty. That's 3, on the best team the NHL has seen in the past few years. Chicago, the second best team, 2 - Toews and Kane. Hossa and Sharp are solid but they're not game breakers. Crawford sure as heck isn't. And how on earth are we suppose to know if the Canucks have any game breakers when this team has changed so much since we were last in the playoffs? For all we know Miller, Horvat, Bonino, Vey, Matthias etc could all beast mode in the playoffs.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Another note I forgot to mention was Higgins. I love Chris off the ice but as a player he just doesn't seem to have that ability to be that top 6 player. Higgy does everything well, he forechecks well, grinds the boards, defends well but I just don't see him being a difference maker or having that spark we have seen from everyone else.

I would like to see JB move him before the deadline for a player that has that same ability but has that spark that we've seen from others, maybe Higgs + B prospect / late pick for someone like Silfverberg/Nyquist/Schwartz/Bennett .

I'd rather just trade Higgins and give Kassian or Jensen a shot.

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Crosby

Iginla

Malkin

That group sure game broke their way out of the conference finals vs Boston in 2013. How many goals did they have between them again? And all you've done with half those players is list the teams top players, not game breakers. The only game breakers LA has is Williams, Quick and maybe Doughty. That's 3, on the best team the NHL has seen in the past few years. Chicago, the second best team, 2 - Toews and Kane. Hossa and Sharp are solid but they're not game breakers. Crawford sure as heck isn't. And how on earth are we suppose to know if the Canucks have any game breakers when this team has changed so much since we were last in the playoffs? For all we know Miller, Horvat, Bonino, Vey, Matthias etc could all beast mode in the playoffs.

Just goes to show that when we lost to Boston in 7 games how good we were(even with injuries to key players like Henrik and Kesler, terrible reffing) our depth scoring took us to 7 games. People complain that the sedins sucked in the finals? well they did something Crosby, Malkin and the team that had the highest playoff scoring in 7 years couldn't do even once in their series against the Bruins; score on Boston and being in on 4 of the 8 goals we scored that series. Malkin and Crosby had nothing.

Our team at its best lost to some of the best defenses in Boston and LA. Look at what Rask did that season and how he was in Toronto. Look at scrivens now compared to how he was when he was in LA almost stealing Quick's spot. I still believe that defense wins championships.

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