sting Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Higgins is great value. 200 ft player who goes through slumps. Too bad he's in one right now. Was terrible last night, looked like he was still sick to me. I wish he would shoot high more often. It's time Kassian gets a shot to really prove himself. If he was traded he would be given a shot. Our contract situation is set up nicely for our prospects to season in the minors. No one is playing so good they deserve top 6 NHL time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Better idea than trading him now: We give Kassian a shot to prove himself and then maybe he has some trade value. Considering how our 5-on-5 scoring is almost a complete non-factor these days, what do we have to lose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gross-Misconduct Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 How did I know this would be another poor Kassian thread ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithers joe Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 i agree with what willie said...forget what line you're on...just play your best and your line will get more playing time with 3 3rd lines...any line that plays great, could become the second line....that alone should get them playing their best hockey... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadOgre Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Higgins true value is being traded at the deadline along with Bieksa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyHatnDart Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 MG originally brought in Higgens to play on the third line. Most of last season he was on the second line just like this year. I see him playing above his purpose mainly because there's no one else ready to step up. Kassian has earned nothing in my eyes. Once again the waves of panic flow through the forums. Linden and co see the same things we do and more. Higgens is yet another player MG signed to a NTC. I'm sure JB would move him given the right return but we should all realize by now it's not that easy. Last years January slump that keeps getting brought up is moot.That's last season with a different cast on and off the ice. I expect JB to load up on draft picks before the trade dead line meaning some more dead wood will be removed from the group. Having great expectations for this team during the up coming play offs is fantasy. Sure we want them to do well, who doesn't, the reality of things is what we're seeing. Higgens is just a system of a rapidly aging core. Not only has Higgens looked useless so have favorites like Bieksa. He's lost a step and there's no attitude push that will bring it back. This season and next in my eyes are transitional seasons. Ridding this team of NTC players is the challenge at hand. Young players have room to grow and improve, players like Higgens have peaked, lost a step and are simply trying to maintain the mojo they once had. Management knows it we the fan have to accept it. This isn't microwave instant. Good post. Nice to see some around here with realistic expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 A few questions for you guys. - Why is Higgins still on the second line when he hasn't produced on that line in years? .... also Kassian has done nothing to earn 2nd line minutes so he should not be there. Totally agree about Higgins, WD is showing he cannot evaluate players properly by keeping him there and dragging that line down. As for the Sedans, I disagree, they are getting very very slow, cannot work the boards like they used too and unfortunately age is not being kind to them like some other players. They will be lucky to get 60 points this year. The best thing they could do is retire after this year, play in their homeland and the canucks will have some cap space. Kassian - pissed at team, not trying (easy to see) I agree with both the first two comments. Neither Higgins nor Kassian has earned a spot in the top 6. As the OP says, Higgins' record over the last several years shows that he is not a legitimate second liner. His natural spot would be on the 3rd line where he can play shutdown if needed and provide some secondary scoring. But Kassian is not close. This year he has 5 pts in 21 games. That is far, far from what would be expected for a second liner. On a good team second liners should be above half a point a game, or at least very close to it. Kassian is below a quarter of a point per game playing on the 3rd line, getting solid minutes and playing with pretty good linemates (Richardson and Matthias). And his defensive play is not particularly good. And his contribution to the physical game is inconsistent. But the criticism of WD in the third comment above is not reasonable. Who else is there to play on the 2nd line? The talent just is not there. The real problem is that the Gillis years of terrible drafts failed to produce the kind of player who, by now, should be top 6 players. Most teams have some fairly recent draft picks in the top 6. The Canucks have none. The Canucks just need more talent. I am not saying the Canucks should tank, but if their play continues disappointing through January I favour seeing what is available in terms of draft picks and prospects for guys on the current roster. If Kassian could be traded for a 1st round pick, I would do it. And if Higgins could be traded for a second rounder (despite his limited NTC) I would do that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetliner Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 matthias needs to be on the second line end thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetliner Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 those abs though u gay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Higgins plays all 3 zones hard. I don't see why you are bustin' Higgin's balls when that whole line has dried up. I'd love to move Higgins to the third line but he's the best option for 2nd line LW and has done an admirable job there for a good while now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznak Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 The second line usually plays against the opponent's top line on most nights. It's difficult to produce points when you're asked to shutdown the other teams top line. That's why I see WD play Higgins in a top 6 role over Kassian, Higgins isn't a liability in his own end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orcasfan Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I don't think the problem is with Higgins. Offensively, he's not the best 2nd liner. But he is competent and a great board worker, as well as being a real 200 ft player. So, not a bad fit on a 2nd line. But he's not a playmaker. And, unfortunately, neither is Bonino. As the C on that line, he needs to be the playmaker. His current line mates are lacking there too. So, we end up with a 2nd line that is OK defensively, but very inconsistent offensively. In this situation, I would take a chance and put Kassian on the 2nd RW. He could be the playmaker that's needed. Vrbata is not really a playmaker. He's more of a shoot-first guy. That's why he is such a good fit with the Twins. Burrows can be used anywhere, but would be best on that 3rd line They need some spark, as well as net presence. How many years were people complaining about Kessler not being a playmaker and not using his line-mates? Well, Bonino is not the improvement in that regard that we needed, unfortunately. I don't think we can expect him to suddenly become that kind of player. And I definitely agree that the big weakness in the current line-up is our D. We are going to get creamed in the playoffs. But that's OK. Making the playoffs would still be better than most people expected. So, it wouldn't be a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 How did I know this would be another poor Kassian thread ? More like a poor Canucks thread. They are doing themselves no favors trying to rely on 3rd line guys with no scoring upside to provide key consistent scoring on this team. I actually wonder what any of the 2nd line players have done to earn their cemented in spots? I watched Hansen coast back lazily on a goal either last game or the one before (can't remember which game) paying literally zero attention to defense. That is consistent and reliable to some? Worth PP time and one of the first moves up to the top 6? Higgins has literally been invisible for a huge stretch of games. I never notice him doing anything that could be described as earning top 6 minutes. The reality that the best teams in the NHL at developing young players understand is that sometimes you just have to put them in the spot to be successful and they will surprise you. The arrogance of the Canucks feeling that players have to produce before they are put into a position to produce is one of the real weak points in this team's philosophy. If we were a dominant team with certain players clearly doing the job in the top 6 it has much more merit than literally no one producing or earning anything but being cherry picked to play there based on reputation. The entitlement of the veterans on this team is (and has been for years) sickening. I am a lifelong fan and will always love them but honestly I am sick of watching the same movie every year. Torts is hated and there are a lot of good reasons to do so. But he had it absolutely right. This core as a group together is stale an needs some significant changes. As much as Canucks fans don't want to admit it that at least partially includes addition by subtraction. Getting some of those vets out now while they have value is the only way forward. Sink or swim time for some of the young guys. Too bad rebuilding the right way will cost the owners too much money to ever be considered. We are and probably will continue to be a tweener team that does little even if we make the playoffs ad either way never end up with a high enough draft pick to make a fast impact at the NHL level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry_Wilkins Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Totally agree about Higgins, WD is showing he cannot evaluate players properly by keeping him there and dragging that line down. As for the Sedans, I disagree, they are getting very very slow, cannot work the boards like they used too and unfortunately age is not being kind to them like some other players. They will be lucky to get 60 points this year. The best thing they could do is retire after this year, play in their homeland and the canucks will have some cap space. Kassian - pissed at team, not trying (easy to see) I know what you mean, I hate slow Chevy sedans. Higgins is like many other vets on this team -- a placeholder who performs a reasonable job until our young talent can develop enough to take over those spots. Not a 2nd liner. Not lately, for sure, and on a playoff team, not ever. But at 2.5 mil per, and unlike other vets here, he offers cap flexibility while not pooping the bed (or sheet of of ice) in some way every shift. If Benning starts turfing fat cats, Higgins wouldn't be on my first-line roster of those sent packing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckleHorse Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Our top 6 are way to easy to play against to easy to knock off the puck don't hit to make a heavy impact you can slap them around and they disappear no real speedy player that can back off the D! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormriders Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Higgins plays all 3 zones hard. I don't see why you are bustin' Higgin's balls when that whole line has dried up. I'd love to move Higgins to the third line but he's the best option for 2nd line LW and has done an admirable job there for a good while now. An 'admirable job there for a good while how' is not how I see it. Playing prime time on the 2nd line and 2nd PP, in the last 16 games he has 1 goal, 1 assist, and is -4. Equated to his current pace, he is on track for 12 goals for the year. You may want to use corsi to support him playing better, but at the end of the day, you have to put up points playing on the second line and this is more than a slump. That just isn't good enough and I just don't see why Higgins continues to get a pass. He is NOT a 2nd line player, never was, but could play there for a while with injuries. I think he is another player on the decline. He is 31 years old and is certainly not getting better. I like him and think he works hard, but on the 3rd or 4th line. He is another player that does not look dangerous most of the time. A good journeyman that can easily and should be replaced this year. His best years were in Montreal and he has looked better than he is on the Canucks because of lack of competition for the job. Think Derek Roy, who just got traded to the Oilers. Was a great player, great career numbers, same age as Higgins with a much better career. He has been on the decline since 2011-2012 season, it's just that most people don't see it until it's over, including the Canucks, who gave up Connauton and a 2nd round pick for the rental. Giving a younger player a chance, whether they 'have earned it or not' is what needs to be done for development. Certainly Higgins isn't earning it. He is there because he is a safer choice for WD right now, period, not because he is playing great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sockeye Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 i disagree, higgins isn't scoring but no one on that line is....i love higgy and would rather keep him with bonino ...i can see the whole line sliding down a spot or to, when they are not producing...we really don't have a second line....just 3 third lines....kassian has shown flashes of consistency but he has done that before and then fallen off the edge of the world...let's wait and see...i don't see higgins dragging that line down...they need a bonified scorer on that line...we don't have one right now...i don't know if jensen's that guy or if virtanen is the right guy....i think willie know what he is doing.... I agree. We don't have a bonafide 2nd line that we can count on for a goal every night or two. It doesn't mean that Higgins and Bonino are bad players, it means they might just be 3rd liners. I like what both bring. If anybody actually watched what Higgins does shift in shift out they'd realize he hustles and causes turnovers more that most of the Canucks. I like the skill set that Kassian brings but he hasn't earned a spot on the second line. I'm glad we didn't keep Torts but he got a few things right. Like when he told Kassian to watch Higgins if he wanted to know how he (Kassian) should play. If we could have three good lines (excluding the 1st line) that all play 12-15 mins per game, I wouldn't care if we had a 2nd line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnsey Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Kassian - I love the guy personally, and if we do trade him it will be a huge mistake. People want him to be getting 60pts or something, he is still young. Bertuzzi was in his mid-late 20's before he hit the 50pts mark (if I'm not mistaken). Some players especially ones that weren't in an environment to excel (Torts obviously didn't like him and AV gave him limited opportunities as well) will take longer to develop. He is not quite ready for top 6 minutes though, he is doing a good job this season on the 3rd line. Let him play there for the rest of the season before moving him up - like Burrows and Kesler. Higgins, is one of the hardest working players on the team imo. His stats may not show it, but he always puts in the effort. While I do agree he is more suited for a 3rd line role, at this time there really isn't any one else that can replace him on the top 6 - Matthias could although that 3rd line has been incredible so I'd prefer that to stay put. Lets not forget that the 2nd line as a whole hasn't been producing, 3 players not producing signifies that it's not just one player dragging them down. PS. I meant this to be a quick post, expanded and went a bit overboard here lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermanbieksa Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 - Higgins has produced approx 0.5p/game since his arrival in Vancouver, that is very acceptable numbers. - Kassian hasn't proved more than Burr/Higgins, only reason people think he should play top six is because his age and that we traded away a good prospect for him. - i think Higgins works his ass off and has a decent set of skills. that doesn't mean he electrifies me with his play, but I think he's a valuable player to the team. - Is that a question or a statement? I don't have a problem with him being on the 2nd line and I think he'd be a great thrid liner. He can be used in both roles IMO. - It would be worth a try. I do agree that Bonino is developable but he's 26, not 23. Big difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aqua59 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 - Higgins has produced approx 0.5p/game since his arrival in Vancouver, that is very acceptable numbers. - Kassian hasn't proved more than Burr/Higgins, only reason people think he should play top six is because his age and that we traded away a good prospect for him. - i think Higgins works his ass off and has a decent set of skills. that doesn't mean he electrifies me with his play, but I think he's a valuable player to the team. - Is that a question or a statement? I don't have a problem with him being on the 2nd line and I think he'd be a great thrid liner. He can be used in both roles IMO. - It would be worth a try. I do agree that Bonino is developable but he's 26, not 23. Big difference This is a what have you done for me lately league. Higgens has topped out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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