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Three Trades (Proposal) Rebuttal to Monty


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Yes, I know you all love me! But hear me out. Today, we are tied for 15th spot overall in the NHL and yes we have games in hand. But as close as we are to 10th, we are just a close to 18th. (Figuratively speaking) 18th spot is an important spot. Remember it. I will get back to it.

The only questions I need are, are we competitive? Are we generally trending upwards or downwards?

I will leave that to you to answer....

I will make 3 deadline trades

#1. Hamhuis to Philadelphia for 2015 -1st and Robert Hagg

#2. Vrbata to Minnesota for 2015-2nd and 2016-2nd

#3. Lack and Higgins to Winnepeg for 2015-2nd and 2015-3rd

Yes, we are will be weak, and yes we will fall, but it will and should be short term. Of the roster players traded, only Hamhuis will sting. Vrbata never cost us a dime and came for the money.....he goes as the Sedin's go..........the deadline is the time to dump him, and will give us the biggest bang. Higgins and Lack are replacable.

Back to 18th overall..........you will never replace a front line center with an 18th pick unless you win the lottery.......get into the 5 to 8 spot and you will get your offensive center. Move some pieces with that pick and you may get a Elite center.

Just think entering the 2015 Draft with the following:

Van 2015-1st (7th) ..........Zacha or Strome

Phili's 2015-1st ( 12th to 14th )..........Roy or Kylington

Van 2015-2nd- (37th).............Best D man available

Minni 2015-2nd (38th) + 52nd to Edmonton for 2nd rd (31) Rantanen or Musil

Winn 2015- 2nd (52nd)

Winn 2015- 3rd (82th)

Plus Hagg

Pick up Franson in the Summer

Come on use your imagination......this isn't real!

Do you have better picks?

Yes, I know you all love me! But hear me out. Today, we are tied for 15th spot overall in the NHL and yes we have games in hand. But as close as we are to 10th, we are just a close to 18th. (Figuratively speaking) 18th spot is an important spot. Remember it. I will get back to it.

The only questions I need are, are we competitive? Are we generally trending upwards or downwards?

I will leave that to you to answer....

I will make 3 deadline trades

#1. Hamhuis to Philadelphia for 2015 -1st and Robert Hagg

#2. Vrbata to Minnesota for 2015-2nd and 2016-2nd

#3. Lack and Higgins to Winnepeg for 2015-2nd and 2015-3rd

Yes, we are will be weak, and yes we will fall, but it will and should be short term. Of the roster players traded, only Hamhuis will sting. Vrbata never cost us a dime and came for the money.....he goes as the Sedin's go..........the deadline is the time to dump him, and will give us the biggest bang. Higgins and Lack are replacable.

Back to 18th overall..........you will never replace a front line center with an 18th pick unless you win the lottery.......get into the 5 to 8 spot and you will get your offensive center. Move some pieces with that pick and you may get a Elite center.

Just think entering the 2015 Draft with the following:

Van 2015-1st (7th) ..........Zacha or Strome

Phili's 2015-1st ( 12th to 14th )..........Roy or Kylington

Van 2015-2nd- (37th).............Best D man available

Minni 2015-2nd (38th) + 52nd to Edmonton for 2nd rd (31) Rantanen or Musil

Winn 2015- 2nd (52nd)

Winn 2015- 3rd (82th)

Plus Hagg

Pick up Franson in the Summer

Come on use your imagination......this isn't real!

Do you have better picks?

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Huge under payment by us on the second and third trades.

holy we are getting 2015 2nd and 2015 3rd for Higgins AND Lack??!?!?

no to these trades.

edit: oh and I still luv you.

LOL..

this.

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The truth is Ghjffbali a real tank is selling off all your vets........when you really look at it

Is Hamhuis really our best Dman? I would say taking everything into consideration and the revival of Edler.....he is one of 3 good ones, not nessesarily the best.....he is however the oldest of the best

Exactly how long will we have Vrbata?.....Does he resign if we naturally fall.......remember he left Arizona for that reason....or was it the money?

Lack and Higgins?..............nothing special

Honestly....what's the problem?......

If we wait 3 years, all our vets will be retiring and not worth $hit...............and then you are going to wait a lot longer

How long did the Cubs wait for a championship?.............If all we want to be is average forever, just trade your first every year and up grade a little...............or suck it up and move players before they devalue.

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The truth is Ghjffbali a real tank is selling off all your vets........when you really look at it

Is Hamhuis really our best Dman? I would say taking everything into consideration and the revival of Edler.....he is one of 3 good ones, not nessesarily the best.....he is however the oldest of the best

Exactly how long will we have Vrbata?.....Does he resign if we naturally fall.......remember he left Arizona for that reason....or was it the money?

Lack and Higgins?..............nothing special

Honestly....what's the problem?......

If we wait 3 years, all our vets will be retiring and not worth $hit...............and then you are going to wait a lot longer

How long did the Cubs wait for a championship?.............If all we want to be is average forever, just trade your first every year and up grade a little...............or suck it up and move players before they devalue.

The team is in a playoff spot. As long as it is in a playoff spot it will not put the screws to the vets to waive their NTC's. Only if they are out of a spot and falling as hard as last year would it even be considered. Missing Hamhuis makes us look far worse because we have to dress 3 tire fire defensemen in Bieksa, Sbisa, Weber and have two of them at a time play large minutes.

Benning has already said he's not interested in trading his 1st round pick so I doubt we have to worry about that. Its been proven time and time again that its not necessary to be drafting in the top 5 to rebuild. The canucks have been accumulating top 10 picks the last two years anyways to rebuild the farm. 4 1st rounders in the last 2 drafts with one more from another deep draft is bound to pay dividends for us within a few years.

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#1. Hamhuis to Philadelphia for 2015 -1st and Robert Hagg

Philly says no. They are already quite far out of the playoffs at this point. And, if the standings stay roughly where they are, they would end up finishing lower than the Canucks. The general consensus around the NHL (according to reports) is that teams are generally going to to hold onto their 1st round draft picks in 2015, and for good reason.

While Philly does need a defenseman, they could work out a deal in the off-season, after the draft.

#2. Vrbata to Minnesota for 2015-2nd and 2016-2nd

Like Philly, Minnesota is also out of the playoffs at this point and would be more likely to hold onto their 2015 1st rounder. Also, majority of people expected the Wild to be a playoff team this year. Their problem has nothing to do with missing a winger like Vrbata, and more to do with goaltending, followed by coaching. Understandably, the Wild decline.

#3. Lack and Higgins to Winnepeg for 2015-2nd and 2015-3rd

I closely follow 6 teams (Jets, Canucks, Islanders, Wild, Red Wings, and the Panthers).

So, this is an absolute no from the Jets, and I'll start with Eddie Lack. If you follow the Jets, you'll know that they are currently running with a rotation of Pavelec and Hutchinson. Michael Hutchinson is 3rd in the NHL with a 2.00 GAA and 2nd in the NHL with a .931 SV%. Pavelec is 24th in the NHL with a 2.52 GAA and 30th in the NHL with a .909 SV%.

Lack is 18th in the NHL with a 2.41GAA and 17th in the NHL with a .914 SV%. Ryan Miller is 23rd in the NHL with a 2.48 GAA and 25th in the NHL with a .912 SV%.

This rotation is working right now for the Jets, getting Hutchinson the proper development time he needs, while still allowing him to rest up and not get too overworked. While statistically Eddie Lack is an upgrade over Ondrej Pavelec, financially the Jets can't make this trade, as they would then have to do something with Pavelec, as Hutchinson is not being sent down to the minors as he would have to clear waivers, which wouldn't happen. Also, the Jets goaltending in the future beyond Pav and Hutchinson is also looking bright, with Connor Hallebuyck in the AHL (name to the All-Star team) and Eric Comrie developing as well. There's just no room for Lack. Even if they could have him for a 6th round pick, they still don't need him.

As for Higgins, I will say that I like what he brings. Again, though, the Jets don't need him specifically. Their top 2 lines are set, with their bottom 6 being the biggest question mark at this point. Shown as follows:

Kane - Lowry - Halischuck

Thorburn - Slater - Peluso

Now, Kane and Lowry have been playing very well together and fit their roles fine. However, Lowry isn't a true center, and the Jets would like to move him to the wing and get a true 3rd line center. The plan going into the season was to have Mathieu Perreault play that role; however, the second line of Perreault, Scheifele, and Frolik as been working out so well, that the Jets are keeping that in tact. This said, the 3rd line been doing their part and chipping in offense as well as being incredibly responsible defensively. So if the cost is too high to upgrade it (i.e. 2nd rounder in 2015) then the Jets wouldn't do it.

However, the absolute must do for the Jets is to improve the 4th line, which has been discussed ad nauseam in Winnipeg over the past 2 months. The general feeling why this has not been addressed is because Winnipeg is waiting until all their defense is completely healthy. Once this happens their defense looks like this:

Chiarot - Byfuglien

Enstrom - Bogosian

Stuart - Trouba

Harrison

Postma

Pardy

The emergence of Ben Chiarot has not only been a welcome surprised, but has been such a terrific complement to Byfuglien's game. He also wouldn't clear waivers if sent down, so he's going nowhere.

Harrison is a solid, solid 7th defenseman, who the Jets acquired for a 6th round pick and were able to get the Hurricanes to retain some of his salary as well. He's also signed for one more season, so he's going nowhere.

Adam Pardy would clear, as he's garbage. However, he's a typical player to sit in the press box as well.

The biggest piece for the Jets to use in a trade is Paul Postma. For a 7th round draft pick in 2008 and almost 26 years old, Postma is contributing NHL defenseman who would not clear waivers. However, it would not be in his best interest to be a 7th or 8th defenseman on the Jets, as he's too good for that role; it's just that the Jets have better options at this point. Chances are that they trade Postma for someone that takes Anthony Peluso out of the lineup and gets a gritty player to take over his role, or take over Halischuk's spot on the 3rd line and push Halischuk down to the 4th.

While people not familiar with Postma may not agree, trust me when I say they can do better than a Postma for Higgins trade (even if Higgins would waive to go to Winnipeg). When I say better, I mean younger.

Now, if the Canucks were looking to get Postma, which is something to think about because the Canucks defense needs improvement, then the 2 forwards that the Jets would look at working out a return package on would be either Derek Dorsett or Zack Kassian. If Dorsett, that's almost a trade that would end up being 1 for 1. If Kassian, then the Jets would have to look at adding a mid-round draft pick in return. But that's assuming Kassian is in play, which is questionable based on what the Canucks ended up giving up to get him in the first place to get him at the time (though Hodgson is playing poorly now). That said, for (honest to themselves) fans of the Canucks and Kassian (myself included), Kassian's worth, if to be traded, is not what it once was.

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/\

Well laid out, Monty.

Another problem in Minnesota is both of their cornerstone players, Ryan Suter and Zach Parise had their fathers pass away this season. J.P. Parise was battling cancer for months. It has been particularly hard on Zach.

So combine that with the goaltending and coaching, and the team is a mess. But if they can add a steady goaltender in the offseason, and maybe get a better coach, they should be right back in the back next year.

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Yes, I know you all love me! But hear me out. Today, we are tied for 15th spot overall in the NHL and yes we have games in hand. But as close as we are to 10th, we are just a close to 18th. (Figuratively speaking) 18th spot is an important spot. Remember it. I will get back to it.

The only questions I need are, are we competitive? Are we generally trending upwards or downwards?

I will leave that to you to answer....

I will make 3 deadline trades

#1. Hamhuis to Philadelphia for 2015 -1st and Robert Hagg

#2. Vrbata to Minnesota for 2015-2nd and 2016-2nd

#3. Lack and Higgins to Winnepeg for 2015-2nd and 2015-3rd

Yes, we are will be weak, and yes we will fall, but it will and should be short term. Of the roster players traded, only Hamhuis will sting. Vrbata never cost us a dime and came for the money.....he goes as the Sedin's go..........the deadline is the time to dump him, and will give us the biggest bang. Higgins and Lack are replacable.

Back to 18th overall..........you will never replace a front line center with an 18th pick unless you win the lottery.......get into the 5 to 8 spot and you will get your offensive center. Move some pieces with that pick and you may get a Elite center.

Just think entering the 2015 Draft with the following:

Van 2015-1st (7th) ..........Zacha or Strome

Phili's 2015-1st ( 12th to 14th )..........Roy or Kylington

Van 2015-2nd- (37th).............Best D man available

Minni 2015-2nd (38th) + 52nd to Edmonton for 2nd rd (31) Rantanen or Musil

Winn 2015- 2nd (52nd)

Winn 2015- 3rd (82th)

Plus Hagg

Pick up Franson in the Summer

Come on use your imagination......this isn't real!

Do you have better picks?

now I know why I stopped reading proposals from you ........
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Monty, Monty, Monty! What a great response! Honestly, what you wrote, I can not argue, and I believe it is true. Your knowledge of the players, and in particular, these players is outstanding, and though it takes a lot of work, I appreciate your effort, honestly!

I do want to say firstly, that most of the non comments and comments like the one you posted are taken out of context. I have for most of last year and all of this year, supported a purging of old top end talent, mostly to do a very fast rebuild (4-5 years). I have attempted to show CDC why we need to do this. It is not that this trade or that trade is the best, matter of fact I would much rather you or someone like you that knows their way around the league, lead the suggestions of how to aquire"Young talent".

I just do not believe in luck, and skill and knowledge will beat out the former, 9 times out of 10. So, I don't believe that it is as easy as everyone says to draft an elite first line player. Matter fact, it is like throwing darts after the top 10, and when talking about elite, the stats show that top 3 picks in generally turn out the best, then top 5, then top 10 and so on.

As of today, I do not see any 1st line prospects in our stable(prospects)...maybe Virtanen, because of his speed and shot. Other than that, there is nothing that resembles a first line forward or defenseman. Maybe Demko if you count goalies. In any case, I believe in 2 to 3 years at best, if we stay status quo, we will be in the basement.

Yes, this is a deep draft, but "All" the bottom teams will reap the same benefit of that draft, and strengthen their teams equally, with the bottoms team having the edge in the top 3....(Being very generous here because if we stay at the 12 to 15 spot, the bottom 10 teams will all make larger leaps then we will, and the top 2 or 3 even better leaps with the likes of McDavid and such.

Look at out team in 3 years...............

first line 36years old 36 years old 36 years old

second line 36 years old 22 years old 34 years old

third line and fourth lines who friggin cares.....Bonino will be 29....again who cares!

Defense Bieska 36, Hamhuis 34, Edler 31, Tanev 27 (Thank God!)

And people want to hold on to these guys until their really throw a hip......from old age!

My only, and I stress only, wish is to keep the Canucks healthy (age and skill wise), and it is my belief that, if you don't move talent near or before the end of their useful life, you will get what you pay for..........or in this case you will get what they will be worth.

Do you honestly think that the Canucks have the talent to do this on the fly? Really......we will get mid level talent and be a mid level team, and everyone will pick on the talent that didn't turn into first line players (aka Kassian)

It amazes me that people can't see this???????

Your response was bang on! Thank you....I found it very insightful......Maybe you could think about where we do trade our aging stars and get those assets that could give us the ability to rebuild quickly.....

I use to be an advocate of trading Burrows, Dorsett and Richardson, but honestly......they are hardworking honest hockey players, ones that Edmonton would die for. Even Bieska's ability lies in leadership, something that is elusive these days.

Trade Hamhuis, Vrbata and a goalie or what ever, but I am telling you that if you don't in 3 years that is what you are looking at, and it will be worthless.........

Again.....thank's for your comments......post longer and more often!

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Uhm actually we got Jordan Subban, Hunter shinkaruk, Cole Cassels, Brendan Gaunce, Bo Horvat, Gustav Forsling, Jake Virtanen, Thatcher Demko, Dane fox, Franky Corrado, and yeah they are all good prospects, look up Jordan Subban you'll learn a lot about him, his older brother PK said he is going to be better then him , himself, I'm very excited and personally think this is the best pool of prospects we've had

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Yes, I did mention Virtanen, Demko and Horvat, but only one of them stands a chance at first line....I would like to be wrong. But!

As for Subban.........and the rest for that matter........good prospects, but right now, they don't have starting line up written on them.....hope I am wrong.....2nd liners , yes.......first liner......mmm......don't think so.......don't think Bo is a first liner either....very good 2nd liner....hell a lot better than Bonino....but not first liner

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He may not look it yet but give him time and Subban and forsling are definately capable of 1st pairing d men also Jared McCann I mean don't underestimate what we got now and can get this draft, i agree with you about moving all our older players with value while still possible except for Vrbata and Hamhuis espciqlly if we're still in the hunt for the playoffs come deadline day

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Forsling is a stud, did you not watch or pay attention to the juniors, Subban is still devoloping yes but he's a solid pmd with lots of offensive upside, his own brother said he will be better then him, and back to forsling, look what happened with edler whos to say we don't have a potential edler in forsling he put up good numbers in the jrs even tho Sweden bowed out early he was still pretty solid, and what makes you think their not? A true fan atleast a recognizes good potential when he sees it one would think..

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Yes, I know you all love me! But hear me out. Today, we are tied for 15th spot overall in the NHL and yes we have games in hand. But as close as we are to 10th, we are just a close to 18th. (Figuratively speaking) 18th spot is an important spot. Remember it. I will get back to it.

The only questions I need are, are we competitive? Are we generally trending upwards or downwards?

I will leave that to you to answer....

I will make 3 deadline trades

#1. Hamhuis to Philadelphia for 2015 -1st and Robert Hagg

#2. Vrbata to Minnesota for 2015-2nd and 2016-2nd

#3. Lack and Higgins to Winnepeg for 2015-2nd and 2015-3rd

#1 doesn't work with cap

#2 wild don't need another $5 million winger they need a goalie and a new coach the most

#3 Jets don't need lack they have hutchinson who's been playing great. as well Pavelec, and Budaj

A lot of effort to put into a proposal for 3 trades that don't work.

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