We need more defense than offense.

[Canuck Surfer]

No, just no.

First off you can have your forwards help the defense out. Secondly I don't wanna watch a bunch of 2-1 games, boring!

The other thing is the team is only 1 quality top 4 dman away from looking ok, whereas the entire offensive core needs to be changed. It's not just about the lack of offense it's also about being hard to play against and the 2 top lines are soft serve.

Drafting a Dman is ok since it'll be a whole new team by the time he's a big contributor.

Not sure I agree.

There is a succession plan in place up front which is fairly straight forward.

Higgins and Burrows might be considered less exciting than Patrick Kane, or Marty St Louis on a second line. They are not 2knd liners on top teams. I can grant that. But they are actually on par statistically as second liners. Bonino has upside. We hope anyway. All of (all star) Vrbata, Danny & Hank have above average scoring for first line players. People are spoilt in complaining. There are also at least candidates to replace them as top 6 forwards amongst Jensen, Horvat, Shinkaruk, Virtanen, Vey, Kassian and possibly Cassels?

To me Edler and perhaps Hamhuis could be considered the secondary pairing on a top 2. Neither a true top D. Tanev is a second pairing guy. A good one, but? Bieksa is a perfect 5th D man. But no one, like Danny and Hank, is remotely close to being a top 30 NHL performer. Dorsett, Richardson, Mathias and Hansen are all higher quality depth up front than Weber, even Stanton or Sbisa on the back end. There are probably more questions than with our forward prospects to be answered by Tryamkin, Forsling, Subban, Hutton or Pedan before we can have as much confidence that any will ever suit up in the NHL. Let alone meet their potential, although there is some of that.

I am convinced we have substantially bigger holes on D in both our line-up and prospect pool compared to our forwards.

[aGENT]

I am convinced we have substantially bigger holes on D in both our line-up and prospect pool compared to our forwards.

Same.

[StarGirl]

Defense is certainly a problem for us...

Having Edler and Tanev as the best pair of D for us on our team, means that the whole D needs to be better.

[wallstreetamigo]

Edler is not the same player he has been the last few years. His play has been quite amazing to see this year, him and Tanev make the perfect duo for us. Then when Hamhuis gets back we should be pretty good. I mean lets face it Sbisia and Weber are getting more opportunities with the injury but they are not ready for it quite yet.

As for the Ehrhoff debate, well he rejected the same (or at least similar) deal to what Bieksa got. I understand that Ehrhoff had more points (although he and Bieksa were pretty close in the playoffs) and was the better player but when a player rejects a 4.6M deal for a team that came one game from winning the cup, you can see truly what he wants....money over winning.

Not ideal to be honest. I would rather the guy that takes a pay cut to help the team than a guy that thinks he should get more than his teammates - just my opinion of course!

Or maybe he wanted recognition from management that he was just a little bit more important in the grand scheme of things than Bieksa was (which we both knew at the time and also has been seriously proven since).

Look at the contract Bieksa signed compared to the one Hamhuis signed and ask about what the motivation was there to make just that little bit more than Hamhuis. I can guarantee that was not a coincidence. Of course, being Kevin Bieksa this will be discounted but an argument could be made that he did the exact same thing Ehrhoff was trying to do.

[RonMexico]

I disagree to an extent with the notion that any of top 16 teams in April have a chance to win in the playoffs. While it is true that any team, whoever it is, does have a chance to win the Cup, some teams have a better chance than others. That's just simple fact.

Well no kidding some teams are better than others but as we see time and time again, certain occurences like a hot goalie or a hot line can carry a team all the way.

[nuck nit]

As for the Ehrhoff debate, well he rejected the same (or at least similar) deal to what Bieksa got.

I understand that Ehrhoff had more points (although he and Bieksa were pretty close in the playoffs) and was the better player but when a player rejects a 4.6M deal for a team that came one game from winning the cup, you can see truly what he wants....money over winning.

Not ideal to be honest. I would rather the guy that takes a pay cut to help the team than a guy that thinks he should get more than his teammates - just my opinion of course!

Ehrhoff-14 g 36a 50 points

Bieksa - 6 g 16a 22 points

Christian finishes the season as the seventh highest scoring d man in the NHL.

Gillis offers Ehrhoff the Bieksa deal and then berates him publicly after Christian rejects it.

Despite injury in the San Jose series,Ehrhoff continued to play and led all Canucks d men in scoring in 2010-11.

12 points-Ehrhoff

11 points-Edler

10 points-Bieksa

6 points-Hamhuis

5 points-Salo

1 point-Rome

0 points-Tanev,Ballard,Alberts

The team needs an offensive d man in the worst way. Benning knows he has to provide one so it's a waiting game to see how he provides one.

[Quoted]

Well no kidding some teams are better than others but as we see time and time again, certain occurences like a hot goalie or a hot line can carry a team all the way.

Though it can and does happen, no one should expect it. The LA example a lot of people use is a bit misleading as they were a very good team heading in and their position in the standings was only due to a bad start (pre-trade) that they couldn't recover from (points wise)

[MoneypuckOverlord]

Edler is not the same player he has been the last few years. His play has been quite amazing to see this year, him and Tanev make the perfect duo for us. Then when Hamhuis gets back we should be pretty good. I mean lets face it Sbisia and Weber are getting more opportunities with the injury but they are not ready for it quite yet.

As for the Ehrhoff debate, well he rejected the same (or at least similar) deal to what Bieksa got. I understand that Ehrhoff had more points (although he and Bieksa were pretty close in the playoffs) and was the better player but when a player rejects a 4.6M deal for a team that came one game from winning the cup, you can see truly what he wants....money over winning.

Not ideal to be honest. I would rather the guy that takes a pay cut to help the team than a guy that thinks he should get more than his teammates - just my opinion of course!

In my point of view he's worth more then Bieksa, since Ehrhoff is beyond just an offensive guy, he was part of the teams number 1 power play unit and penalty kill. He just literally did everything better then Bieksa, of course he deserves more. Ever since he left, our offence and power play dropped, everyones offensive numbers drop, because we have no dmans that know how to hit the net, or get pucks near the net, we also don't have the dmans that are confident enough to skate it up, or even have Ehrhoffs speed with the puck. Although someone just mentioned that he only has 12 points, In pittsburgh, sures why not... hindsigh 20/20, look at Bieksa's stats. Was given the role to take over for the Vancouver Canucks while Hamhius is out and has failed in every aspect of leading the team back there. Team continues to lose, he generates no offence, his predictable play of going along the boards when pressured, utterly useless, did we even try to Give Ehrhoff a counter offer, or do we expect offensive dmans to play for 4.5 million? yea, thats right, should have dumped Ballard earlier, and sign Ehrhoff, but oh well.

tank time. Defence sucks. Bieksa is gone after his contract.

[RonMexico]

Though it can and does happen, no one should expect it. The LA example a lot of people use is a bit misleading as they were a very good team heading in and their position in the standings was only due to a bad start (pre-trade) that they couldn't recover from (points wise)

I didn't use the LA example or any specific example. I have been a hockey fan for over 30 years. There are more than just recent examples of low seed teams having success. But here's a homer example: '94 Canucks were the 7th seed and were lead by Linden, Bure and McLean.

Yes you should expect it with the current state of parity. I fully expect to see many more low seeded teams succeed.

[Carl's Jn]

I honestly think the lack of scoring isn't the main problem.

It's our defense. Hamhuis is obviously our best D-man and with him out, we have to rely on others who aren't as good as him.

Let me get this out of my system.

Edler tries too many drop passes which end up being intercepted or not being connected fully. He definitely is not a playoff performer, as we've seen in the latter half of 2011, 2012 and 2013.

Bieksa, from what I've seen, tries to be fancy with his stickhandling. Hey, buddy, you're awesome and all, but you're not Duncan Keith or Pavel Datsyuk. You're a bloody D-man so stick to your job.

Tanev is actually pretty good. Sbisa is turning out to be a bust. We should've kept Ehrhoff.

sorry disagree.... we need goals.. where not scoring look at the scores of the games of late as proof'

[spliced]

2-1 games is what we're watching (lately on the wrong side) now because our offensive players are forced to play too much defense and there's no offensive push from the back end.

You hockey wrong.

How dare they make the Sedins leave the offensive zone.

Get a clue please, just for a change.

Not sure I agree.

There is a succession plan in place up front which is fairly straight forward.

Higgins and Burrows might be considered less exciting than Patrick Kane, or Marty St Louis on a second line. They are not 2knd liners on top teams. I can grant that. But they are actually on par statistically as second liners. Bonino has upside. We hope anyway. All of (all star) Vrbata, Danny & Hank have above average scoring for first line players. People are spoilt in complaining. There are also at least candidates to replace them as top 6 forwards amongst Jensen, Horvat, Shinkaruk, Virtanen, Vey, Kassian and possibly Cassels?

To me Edler and perhaps Hamhuis could be considered the secondary pairing on a top 2. Neither a true top D. Tanev is a second pairing guy. A good one, but? Bieksa is a perfect 5th D man. But no one, like Danny and Hank, is remotely close to being a top 30 NHL performer. Dorsett, Richardson, Mathias and Hansen are all higher quality depth up front than Weber, even Stanton or Sbisa on the back end. There are probably more questions than with our forward prospects to be answered by Tryamkin, Forsling, Subban, Hutton or Pedan before we can have as much confidence that any will ever suit up in the NHL. Let alone meet their potential, although there is some of that.

I am convinced we have substantially bigger holes on D in both our line-up and prospect pool compared to our forwards.

You can't just look at everything individually like that. Higgins may be ok if he's playing with really good players, but he's not and thus you have to look at the line as a whole. Throw Malkin in between and you got something, or maybe have an insane first line and you can get away with a weaker second line.

Bonino is getting pretty old to think he has much upside left in him. The Sedins put up some numbers but they do very little else. They're easy to play against, slow, have to play together, got all the good PP time for years, rack up lots of easy points but often get shut down and or get exposed defensively in the big games. The one time they've won more then one playoff round they were carried by the second and third line for all but the SJ series. The Sedins aren't true first liners, they're second liners now and the line is weak for a 19 million dollar line.

The young prospects for the future are really a different topic.

[bluesman60]

I believe the most pressing need is goal scoring on the top 2 lines. You aren't going to win many 1-0 games and you for sure are not going to win any if you score 0 goals. It doesn;t much amtter if the offense comes from the forwards or the dmen but the offense has to be there. This season is so far playing out like last season, if we can't score, we will be picking top 10 again.

[KING ALBERTS]

We need both, a PMD and 1 or 2 legit top 6 guys. We have the Sedin line which should be a very good 2nd line instead of a meh top line... And then we have a bunch of 3rd/4th liners.

No point argueing which we need more, cuz we need both to be a real threat again.

[pmalina]

Rate the Players

VAN @ NSH 1-5, vote here:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1tZjyuodzYepbDjtsrtmuCk2lNJMCNQDkF75AwBLUXqk/viewform?usp=send_form

The idea comes from here: http://forum.canucks.com/topic/363875-rate-the-players-concept/

[supermanbieksa]

we're lacking both. For this team to contend we need another top 6 forward and top 4 d who can produce some points.

With the addition of a 20-30 goal scorer we have a great balance of offensive threat and defensively responsible forwards to both outscore and shut down others top lines. Add a good two-way defenceman and a healthy Hamhuis this is a contending team IMO.

Question is if it's worth trading away picks and prospects to get there. Because it would be a short term solution

[alfstonker]

The problem as I see it was from 2009 onwards Gillis didn't restock the larder in prospects. These guys would have been about ready to step in now but they were never there.

Our past scouting and picks combined with the Chicago fiasco has left us running on empty. We have no one ready to boost the team and it is obvious that we don't have faith in Jensen, Archibald and before that Schroeder and Sweatt or any of the other faceless wonders.

We must be just about the worst performing team out of the draft in the 4/5 years prior to 2014. Even Bo was the result of a massive over compensation with the trade of Schneider.

Gillis gambled with his NTC's thinking they would still be able to carry us on for the length of their term but they are coming up short and seemingly running out of gas.

Obviously from what I've said above there is no way I would trade picks to improve the team now. Let the chips fall where they may and collect our picks at the end of the year or we will just extend our purgatory.

Maybe when Hamhuis gets back things will improve and I do think some of our players are probably playing while ill, we can only hope that we can turn it around when we are back to full fitness.

We should also not make the mistake of judging the team at this time of the year playing against the best team in the league. By the time the playoffs come round we may well have improved markedly while Nashville could be slumping.

"Bonino is getting pretty old to think he has much upside left in him."

Bonino is only 26 for goodness sake.

[D-Money]

The funniest thing in this thread are the people saying that Gillis should have offered a similar contract to Ehrhoff...one that the worst team in the league just bought out.

[aGENT]

How dare they make the Sedins leave the offensive zone.

Get a clue please, just for a change.

You can't just look at everything individually like that. Higgins may be ok if he's playing with really good players, but he's not and thus you have to look at the line as a whole. Throw Malkin in between and you got something, or maybe have an insane first line and you can get away with a weaker second line.

Bonino is getting pretty old to think he has much upside left in him. The Sedins put up some numbers but they do very little else. They're easy to play against, slow, have to play together, got all the good PP time for years, rack up lots of easy points but often get shut down and or get exposed defensively in the big games. The one time they've won more then one playoff round they were carried by the second and third line for all but the SJ series. The Sedins aren't true first liners, they're second liners now and the line is weak for a 19 million dollar line.

The young prospects for the future are really a different topic.

Nice strawman. No one said they (or anyone else) shouldn't have to contribute in the d-zone. That's fundamental hockey.

And ~1PPG in the playoffs is hardly sub par in "big games". As always, depth wins championships, not how flashy your first line is. Surround the twins with quality depth (something they had in 2011 as you poorly pointed out with your "carried" comments) and they could still help lead a team to a championship even now.

It's a team sport, not a my first line is flashier than your first line sport.

[jejejester]

We need more offense from our defense. The defense just aren't producing enough points.

The thing that I don't understand is why people want a "big mean stay at home D" we need defense who are mobile and can move a puck, I rather have defense who can move the puck out of the zone under pressure, than a defense who can't move a puck and have to keep defending.

Even big Z, he's tough and mean, but he's a far better puck mover than people give credit for. Since he can make good plays with the puck and move it. That puck movement makes him, and his team better.

Doughty, Keith, Karlsson, Weber, are all better with the puck than without it

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

As much as Sbisa has been horrific this year, he has shown some bright spots.

He has all the skills to be a top 4 dman and live up to the potential when he was drafted, still relatively young. He just needs to harness all that skill and use it all together. As hard as it is now to see him struggle, I think in the long run he could be a decent guy for us. Something about his game I really like, just really needs to harness all of his skills together.

I occasionally will dump upon him for stupid plays but I think he has what it takes to be a good player, just needs to focus a little bit better