We need more defense than offense.

[Monty]

Ehrhoff-14 g 36a 50 points

Bieksa - 6 g 16a 22 points

Christian finishes the season as the seventh highest scoring d man in the NHL.

Conveniently neglected to mention that, in the playoffs that year, Bieksa (who I should add I am no fan of) was a +6 player. Ehrhoff, on the other hand, was a -13.

There was a reason Gillis offered him the amount he did. Since then, Ehrhoff has:

1. Seen himself get bought out by one of the worst teams in the NHL.

and

2. Currently playing on one of the best teams to succeed offensively, AND HE'S NOT.

Can you imagine had Gillis given Ehrhoff what he wanted and he ended up playing like he currently is? The team would have another massive problem on their hands.

[aGENT]

We need more offense from our defense. The defense just aren't producing enough points.

The thing that I don't understand is why people want a "big mean stay at home D" we need defense who are mobile and can move a puck, I rather have defense who can move the puck out of the zone under pressure, than a defense who can't move a puck and have to keep defending.

Even big Z, he's tough and mean, but he's a far better puck mover than people give credit for. Since he can make good plays with the puck and move it. That puck movement makes him, and his team better.

Doughty, Keith, Karlsson, Weber, are all better with the puck than without it

Because guys who can move the puck as well as they shut down can be counted on one hand, are called #1 D and aren't available.

People don't want a shutdown guy OVER an offensive D, they want both given the reality I posted above.

So given that reality, we would ideally get an offensive D to play with Edler and a good, big, mean shutdown guy to play third pairing with the ability to occasionally move up to second pairing in case of injury. Or even better, we build a time machine and draft Shea Weber as you'd like

[sedinsforever]

All the D-men we've drafted or acquired became busts under Gillis because he saw one good season or potential from them. Garrison was obviously a bust. Salo as well.

I hope Benning knows his D-men very very very well.

[alfstonker]

Conveniently neglected to mention that, in the playoffs that year, Bieksa (who I should add I am no fan of) was a +6 player. Ehrhoff, on the other hand, was a -13.

There was a reason Gillis offered him the amount he did. Since then, Ehrhoff has:

1. Seen himself get bought out by one of the worst teams in the NHL.

and

2. Currently playing on one of the best teams to succeed offensively, AND HE'S NOT.

Can you imagine had Gillis given Ehrhoff what he wanted and he ended up playing like he currently is? The team would have another massive problem on their hands.

There lies the problem in your logic.

Are you seriously saying Ehrhoff was thinking of what an extended stint in Buffalo would do to his game (or Hodgson for that matter) He went for the money and his performance level finally mirrored the team he was playing with. (as is Hodgson's)

Don't get me wrong, on that move I refuse to blame Gillis, Ehrhoff was asking too much and it would have had a knock on effect.

Having said that it became obvious what his contribution was worth to the team and I suspect we would have been a more formidable unit for his presence.

[wallstreetamigo]

Conveniently neglected to mention that, in the playoffs that year, Bieksa (who I should add I am no fan of) was a +6 player. Ehrhoff, on the other hand, was a -13.

There was a reason Gillis offered him the amount he did. Since then, Ehrhoff has:

1. Seen himself get bought out by one of the worst teams in the NHL.

and

2. Currently playing on one of the best teams to succeed offensively, AND HE'S NOT.

Can you imagine had Gillis given Ehrhoff what he wanted and he ended up playing like he currently is? The team would have another massive problem on their hands.

The irrefutable fact in all this is that the Sedins and our offense and PP in general were at their very best with Ehrhoff there, not Bieksa. Ehrhoff on his own may not have been an elite dman but his chemistry and fit with the Sedins style both 5 on 5 and on the PP is not even debatable.

Teams generally find success because they become the sum is more than the parts. Chemistry and fit is much more important than it is given credit for by many on CDC.

Look at our previous defense as another example. Hamhuis, Edler, Bieksa, Garrison, Tanev, Ballard, etc. All good players in their own way but as time has worn on we have seen that some of these guys just do not fit with certain partners to make effective pairings. Individually they are good together not so much.

The Sedins relied heavily on Ehrhoff on the PP especially because he could hit the net and be an actual threat to score from back there so it forced other teams PK units to treat him as such. 5 on 5 his ability to both skate the puck out and transition the puck quickly and accurately drove a lot of our 5 on 5 success.

He didn't do it alone but I don't think we have ever had a dman as complimentary to the Sedins as Ehrhoff was. And it shows.

Gillis should have gotten rid of Ballard and kept Ehrhoff as everyone knew Ballard would never be used as a replacement despite being a great skater and solid passer (not nearly as good of a shot though). It also had a negative effect on both Edler and Bieksa because they were then expected to fill that spot and neither is really that type of player. So it wrecked a great shutdown pairing in Hamhuis/Bieksa too and left Edler to find his way. Salo was always a good partner for Edler but not the same way Ehrhoff was.

Overall Gillis screwed that one up big time.

[aGENT]

The irrefutable fact in all this is that the Sedins and our offense and PP in general were at their very best with Ehrhoff there, not Bieksa. Ehrhoff on his own may not have been an elite dman but his chemistry and fit with the Sedins style both 5 on 5 and on the PP is not even debatable.

Sure it is. The team did just as well with Salo in that role after Ehrhoff left.

The problem was that Salo wasn't replaced either.

Ehrhoff wasn't some unique beautiful snowflake. He had a a somewhat unique skillset that once Salo also left we had no one else to replace.

We're still waiting.

[jejejester]

Because guys who can move the puck as well as they shut down can be counted on one hand, are called #1 D and aren't available.

People don't want a shutdown guy OVER an offensive D, they want both given the reality I posted above.

So given that reality, we would ideally get an offensive D to play with Edler and a good, big, mean shutdown guy to play third pairing with the ability to occasionally move up to second pairing in case of injury. Or even better, we build a time machine and draft Shea Weber as you'd like

I just think we have too many guys who are that shut down defensemen as is (some don't seem to be very good at it)

We have Hamhuis, Tanev, Stanton, and Bieksa (sometimes) who are more shut down defense types. That leaves Weber, Sbisa, Edler, and Corrado to handle the offensive load. Only Edler is able to produce points on a regular basis.

If the team is to make a trade for a Defensemen it would be the far better choice to use the assets we can to get a "PMD" who can play in the top 4. That would push a stay at home defensemen out of the top 4 and give you that defense who can step into the top 4 in case of injury

[aGENT]

I just think we have too many guys who are that shut down defensemen as is (some don't seem to be very good at it)

We have Hamhuis, Tanev, Stanton, and Bieksa (sometimes) who are more shut down defense types. That leaves Weber, Sbisa, Edler, and Corrado to handle the offensive load. Only Edler is able to produce points on a regular basis.

If the team is to make a trade for a Defensemen it would be the far better choice to use the assets we can to get a "PMD" who can play in the top 4. That would push a stay at home defensemen out of the top 4 and give you that defense who can step into the top 4 in case of injury

Completely agree with your second paragraph as I've been pushing for exactly that since Salo left.

Your first paragraph makes me think you're only aware of two "types" of d-men and are confused on what those terms even mean....

[I.Am.Ironman]

What we need is more offense FROM the defense.

We are 28th in the NHL in points from defense. After Edler there is nothing

[sedinsforever]

What we need is more offense FROM the defense.

We are 28th in the NHL in points from defense. After Edler there is nothing

That's kind of sad....wow.

[sedinsforever]

Additionally, other teams have figured out how to shut down the Sedins now. Whether it was under AV, Torts, or Willie, the Sedins don't seem to do anything different since whenever.

I mean, 3-4 years is more than enough time for 29 teams to eventually figure out what the Sedins' tactics are with their other partner and shut the top line down.

Needlessly to say, Boston pretty much got that downpat in 2011 after Game 2. They recognize how deadly the Sedins can be with Kesler (on PP) or Burrows (regular) and probably studied their butts off on how to shut'em down.

It worked.

Vrbata is a good change since he's a RH shooter, but how much difference will it make?

[cbdoubleu]

Kevin Connaughton now has 7 goals.

[DefCon1]

Personally I think the Canucks have enough creative offensive skill and team defense. I think they lack the right kind of support.

Guys like Hansen and Santorelli, puck hounds who keep the puck in the offensive zone. Or Samuelsson who was good at making sure the goalie stopped play and got an offensive zone face off. Or Salo who made sure the puck got to the net not off the back boards turning the play around.

As simple as it sounds, keeping the puck away from your own net is the best way to increase offensive chances and the best way to decrease chances against.

Mason Raymond was the opposite of this, he would skate up the ice attempt to score every time and end up circling the net skating back at full speed. It's not at all Raymond's fault because he was under a lot of pressure to put up numbers and it's what coaches wanted from him. It's just not the right kind of support this team needs IMO.

On paper Raymond is a better scoring option than say Hansen. But he would need to be used accordingly, getting him space, offensive zone starts, PP time, etc... OTOH a player like Hansen is most effective in a supporting role and much better at creating his own chances. I think VAN needs more players like that.

I strongly disagree, I think the Canucks have lost lots of offense from the back end with departures of Salo, Ehrhoff and Garrison. The fact that with don't have a good PP QB or the fact that we have the worst point production from the backend all points to the fact that we need to get a offensive defenseman that can put up point. We already have enough shut down D in Hamhuis, Tanev, Stanton etc. even though the only good ones are Hamhuis and Tanev. Weber, Bieksa and Edler are mediocre to average when it comes to producing offense. I think if we had a trade like the Islanders early in the season to get Boychuk and Leddy, we would be much higher in the standings.

[DefCon1]

Kevin Connaughton now has 7 goals.

MIke Gillis big mistake of trading him. We miss him big time.

[GreyHatnDart]

All the D-men we've drafted or acquired became busts under Gillis because he saw one good season or potential from them. Garrison was obviously a bust. Salo as well.

I hope Benning knows his D-men very very very well.

Salo was a bust? When was he a bust? In bizarro world? Salo consistently was very very good. His only problem was staying healthy.

[aGENT]

Salo was a bust? When was he a bust? In bizarro world? Salo consistently was very very good. His only problem was staying healthy.

Yup

[Nblumer]

I know our D could use a Calgary style transformation but I think a lot of the Canuck weakness is still about the 3rd line, which continues to be among the worst in the NHL - I know there's a thought that having Higgins on that line should improve things but putting Matthias on the 2nd just make things worse for the one line that has looked better this year. I would rather just trade off Kassian, Matthias and Richardson as fast as possible and just keep the 2nd line strong (ie Higgins, Bonnino, Burrows). The 2nd line has improved this year and the 4th is slightly better, but without improvement on the 3rd line we are either going to just barely make the playoffs or not make them at all Yes, Sbisa needs to be benched - but for whom? I say take a gamble and put in Corrado (we can't judge him too harshly for the two lousy games he put in this year). I know its a wasted 2.9 million but it's, as they say in business, a sunk cost. Also I could be wrong, but I think a $575,000/yr youngster will be hungrier to improve his stock than an overpaid D man who still seems to miss his Anaheim teammates and can't seem to communicate well with Bieksa.

[CanuckGAME]

All the D-men we've drafted or acquired became busts under Gillis because he saw one good season or potential from them. Garrison was obviously a bust. Salo as well.

Are you serious?

Please tell me this is a joke. Salo a bust? This is BY FAR the absolute worst post ive ever read on CDC and that says alot.

Salo a bust. Wow. Cant even believe i read this garbage.

[Baggins]

Additionally, other teams have figured out how to shut down the Sedins now.

People have been saying that for 8 - 10 years now.

[ice orca]

I know our D could use a Calgary style transformation but I think a lot of the Canuck weakness is still about the 3rd line, which continues to be among the worst in the NHL - I know there's a thought that having Higgins on that line should improve things but putting Matthias on the 2nd just make things worse for the one line that has looked better this year. I would rather just trade off Kassian, Matthias and Richardson as fast as possible and just keep the 2nd line strong (ie Higgins, Bonnino, Burrows). The 2nd line has improved this year and the 4th is slightly better, but without improvement on the 3rd line we are either going to just barely make the playoffs or not make them at all Yes, Sbisa needs to be benched - but for whom? I say take a gamble and put in Corrado (we can't judge him too harshly for the two lousy games he put in this year). I know its a wasted 2.9 million but it's, as they say in business, a sunk cost. Also I could be wrong, but I think a $575,000/yr youngster will be hungrier to improve his stock than an overpaid D man who still seems to miss his Anaheim teammates and can't seem to communicate well with Bieksa.

Yeah just trade off the whole 3rd line :picard:what are we supposed to do, play 9 forwards for the rest of the year? jesus.