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[Value of] Getting Shane Doan+Boedker to Vancouver


apollo

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Can't quote everyone and reply.

1. I do think we're a contender

2. How about the first deal? I obviously made a typo... Phone auto correct. It's Boedker who is young and proven. His contract is expiring as well.

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We want to get younger don't we? How does Doan help us long term?

This all day long.

Value? 8th round pick for Shane "Old Balls" Doan. He doesn't bring anything to the Canucks that we don't already have. Giving up assets for someone who is good for 50 points one more time before retiring is useless in our position.

If he had signed here as a free agent instead of re-upping in Phoenix I'd have been all for it.

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Can't quote everyone and reply.

1. I do think we're a contender

2. How about the first deal? I obviously made a typo... Phone auto correct. It's Boedker who is young and proven. His contract is expiring as well.

We are not contenders. I know you cannot ever bring yourself to admit that but I am afraid it is true.

Doan doesn't bring anything much that we need at this point other than another huge contract for more than this year.

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Can't quote everyone and reply.

1. I do think we're a contender

2. How about the first deal? I obviously made a typo... Phone auto correct. It's Boedker who is young and proven. His contract is expiring as well.

Do you remember what it was that contributed to our severely depleted prospect pool the last forever? Dishing 2nd round picks+ for deadline rentals or plugs.

Doan may show up and not be a plug, but he sure as heck won't stick around as long as a well drafted prospect would.

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Do you remember what it was that contributed to our severely depleted prospect pool the last forever? Dishing 2nd round picks+ for deadline rentals or plugs.

Doan may show up and not be a plug, but he sure as heck won't stick around as long as a well drafted prospect would.

If we go the first deal then that pick only has 15% chance of becoming the player Boedker will... Well have Doan for 1.5 years too and could really use his leadership. He could groom a guy like Horvat, Vey, etc.

Boedker would be a great asset as well so we get younger too while getting more experience.

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We are not contenders. I know you cannot ever bring yourself to admit that but I am afraid it is true.

Doan doesn't bring anything much that we need at this point other than another huge contract for more than this year.

I think LA proved recently that any team that makes the playoffs can contend for the Cup as long as they make the playoffs. No, I don't think we are LA, yes I do think any team can win once in if the team gets hot.

Were we contenders in 94? Well, we lost but gave NYR a hell of a run.

Long winded, but I agree with you, also, anything can happen once you're in. I just don't wish to spend picks on rentals again either. We could do some more drafting this time around.

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If we go the first deal then that pick only has 15% chance of becoming the player Boedker will... Well have Doan for 1.5 years too and could really use his leadership. He could groom a guy like Horvat, Vey, etc.

Boedker would be a great asset as well so we get younger too while getting more experience.

The Sedins, whether everyone likes it or not, are fantastic leaders. I liked it when Mats came here to mentor guys like Kesler because he only cost $$$, no assets.

I am unwilling to move anything for Doan. Therefore, the proposal for me reads as "Border" for Kassian, Higgins, and a 2nd.

The value from our standpoint doesn't add up for me. Nothing against Boedker.

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^ lol yea major auto correct on Boedker. He is a former first round pick and has more points than Kass and higgy combined. He's young too which is what we need.

Ok I see everyone's point. Targeting both Doan and Boedker would be beneficial though.

Boedker is the young guy so we don't get much older. Doan is the additional leadership and mentor who can also contribute for 1.5 years.

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I think LA proved recently that any team that makes the playoffs can contend for the Cup as long as they make the playoffs. No, I don't think we are LA, yes I do think any team can win once in if the team gets hot.

Were we contenders in 94? Well, we lost but gave NYR a hell of a run.

Long winded, but I agree with you, also, anything can happen once you're in. I just don't wish to spend picks on rentals again either. We could do some more drafting this time around.

No, LA proved that a great team on paper that was underachieving could make a coaching change and a deadline deal for a true offensive top 6 guy and win a cup. The key difference there is that the Canucks are not a great team on paper nor have they seemed willing to make any moves to improve so far. Even if they did they need far more key pieces than just one to be competitive in the playoffs.

They have Doughty. We have Bieksa.

They have Carter. We have Vrbata

They have Kopitar. We have Henrik.

They have Brown. We have Daniel.

They have Toffoli. We have Hansen.

They have Pearson. We have Higgins.

See the pattern yet?

Comparing "94 to now is apples to oranges too. Not to mention we have a long way to go to match that team's determination, work ethic, and never accept losing attitude.

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No, LA proved that a great team on paper that was underachieving could make a coaching change and a deadline deal for a true offensive top 6 guy and win a cup. The key difference there is that the Canucks are not a great team on paper nor have they seemed willing to make any moves to improve so far. Even if they did they need far more key pieces than just one to be competitive in the playoffs.

They have Doughty. We have Bieksa.

They have Carter. We have Vrbata

They have Kopitar. We have Henrik.

They have Brown. We have Daniel.

They have Toffoli. We have Hansen.

They have Pearson. We have Higgins.

See the pattern yet?

Comparing "94 to now is apples to oranges too. Not to mention we have a long way to go to match that team's determination, work ethic, and never accept losing attitude.

You forgot Penner to our Dorsett.

Also, you responded as though you forgot to read the "No, I don't think we're LA" part.

Yes, no matter how much you disagree I think ANY team can win the Cup if they make the playoffs.

Realistically speaking, the current Canucks have a long way to go in order to get to the playoffs, let alone through the first round.

Sports do have patterns, yet every once and a while you get a surprise.

Regardless, the point of this thread is the trade. The trade neither of us are a fan of.

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Just ask yourself.

Why

Seriously...why?

If we were contenders as you say we'd have better 5v5 stats. When even Edmonton is outscoring you 5v5 since the end of Oct you are NOT a contender. When you only have 2 more points off the blueline than Edm you are not a contender

And throwing away picks/prospects and more for a 38 year old guy we CANNOT fit under the cap is beyond dumb.

Think of it like this, if we were talking about building a house, you'd have just suggested we start by building the roof instead of the foundation

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edited it... Let's shoot for Boedker too, this way we get younger as well. He's an upcoming UFA

Ok we lost again, trade proposal time! What would it take to grab Doan from the Coyotes??

1. Trevor and company will have to convince him this team is going to win. They must convince him that he's the missing piece. He could be.

2. Will the Coyotes even want to trade him within the division.

Now let's discuss the price. What do you guy think?

Shane Doan - $5.3 million cap hit

38 years old

6'2 and 228lbs

Locked up this season and next season

*contract would expire with Vrbata (good friends)

He's 38, and has declined surely. That being said he has enough game in him to be an asset on our top 6.

I'm thinking...

Kassian, Higgins, 2nd pick, lower grade prospect

for

Doan, Boedker, Summers (waiver contract drop)

This deal benefits us long and short term

Or

Doan for 2nd and Dane Fox

Or

Doan, Vermette for Demko, Kassian, 2nd

Or

Doan for Jensen and 4th

Our top 6 would look a lot better and so would the second powerplay.

Daniel - Hank - Burrows/ Hansen, Higgins, Kass,... Etc.

Vrbata - Bonino - Doan

Vrbata can be interchanged with the first line RW

It won't surprise anyone who's read posts from me that I don't take the same outlook as Apollo about trades.

Doan can still play. He'd be a great fit for this season on our top 6.

All of these proposals sell out the future to make a try for the present. imo that is always bad asset management, but for teams desperate for the Cup who are really, really close to winning it I can see why they'd do it to get over the hump, even if it means long term pain for short term gain (to paraphrase John Crosbie from when he was Canada's finance minister.)

I am of the view it almost never makes sense to take on the long term pain of gutting the future to get a very short term upgrade.

1. Kassian, Higgins, 2nd for Doan, Boedker, Summers.

I don't think Higgins would waive his limited ntc to go to Arizona and I don't think Doan would waive to go to Vancouver, so this appears to be dead in the water without even considering the cap hit or whether it makes sense.

The Canucks can't afford that trade right now-Doan's $5.3 million cap hit is too much-but could likely manage it at the deadline.

Summers has negative trade value to the Canucks. He's not an upgrade on any of our top 8 defencemen, just a contract the Canucks would have to eat by waiving him and sending him to Utica. Arizona just placed him on waivers and there's no reason for the Canucks to consider picking him unless Canucks' management knows something about him that isn't apparent to the rest of us.

Doan is no longer a good fit for Vancouver (and as others have pointed out probably wouldn't come.) He's the wrong age and carries a higher cap hit than anyone on our roster except the twins and Miller. At the age of 38 he had no future value, despite the fact he's aged well. I wouldn't want to give up any asset for him that is younger than he is (which means essentially there is no trade I'd think the Canucks should make for him. The Canucks already have several older players who would make good role models for young players. The Canucks might be able to manage his $5.3 cap hit this year if the trade was delayed to be near the deadline, but it would leave them problems for next year. They'll have numerous players to sign, some will want raises, and it will mean not having the space available for free agents next summer.

The original poster was Apollo, who is still very high on the Canucks' Cup chances this year, so he'd assign Doan some positive value in a trade. I'm delighted that the Canucks have done what they have so far this season but am absolutely against making any deal that isn't a long-term asset-management gain. I don't want the long-term pain that comes from selling the future for the present.

With Doan's cap hit continuing into next season, I wouldn't assign Doan any positive trade value at all for the Canucks-in fact, I'm more inclined to make his value to the Canucks negative because of loss of cap space for 2015-2016. He can still produce and there would be teams that Doan would make lots of sense for, but I don't think the Canucks are among them.

That leaves Boedker, a good target. Whether he's worth Higgins, Kassian and a 2nd is something people can argue about-I tend to think it's close but a slight overpayment by the Canucks even without taking on the contracts of Doan and Summers.

2. Doan for a 2nd and Dane Fox

It will be apparent from what I've written above that I think this is tantamount to give up a 2nd round pick for virtually nothing. It gives up some chance at a player for the future for someone we know won't be around in the future.

3. Doan, Vermette for Kassian, Demko, 2nd

Now we get a 38 year old and a 32 year old and give up even more future assets. I like Doan and Vermette as players, but this sells the future to get something for the present. I think Arizona might get a better offer from a different team, but also think it would be absolutely crazy for Vancouver to consider it.

Kassian may not improve, but has potential to be very good.

Demko is only a prospect but appears to be a top-notch goalie prospect. As with any prospect he may or may not make the NHL, but he also could potentially be great.

The 2nd has some potential.

Making this deal would give up a lot of potential for a very short term gain. Keep giving future potential and eventually the present becomes the past and the future becomes the present-with nothing left. It's essentially saying long-term asset management isn't important at all, let's just go for the present.

4. Doan for Jensen and a 4th.

I think Jensen, who is 17 years younger than Doan, is at the very least very close to stepping into the Canucks lineup, though they likely won't really have room for him until next season. The net gain from the very short time with Doan rates to be much, much less than the expected value of Jensen over the course of his career, even if Jensen doesn't ever blossom into more than a journeyman (and he still has at least some potential to be much better than that.) This is the proverbial there is no future beyond right now approach.

<edit-changed "management" to "lineup" in #4

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Fair enough tyhee. Honestly, I was really angry at last night's loss. Just wanted to compensate somehow and get my mind off of it.

We're at the 41 game mark and have been slumping of late. So I agree with you that at this time, we shouldn't make any of those deals.

There's 21 games left until the trade deadline, March 2nd I think? Let's say the canucks go 14-4-3 for a total of 31 points. At that point, then I think these trades would make sense. If we go 10-8-3 on the other hand... Then obviously not and we'd most likely fall out of the playoffs.

As it stands, I believe we can somehow mustard 30 points. I believe we're in a rut and will rebound. I sure hope I'm right and it's not the latter.

Doan and 2x 1st rounders and Max Domi for Bo Horvat Zach Kaesion Thacher Domko H Sedin and Dan Cloutier

Nty Dan Cloutier has higher value.

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