new look 'nucks Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Two words.. Edmonton Oilers... They are in 1st right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Spoken like a true loser. Ask Edmonton how having the philosophy of losing to get better works, Then ask Detroit how the opposite philosophy works!I've no words for this Can you address OPs points at all or will you just ignore a well founded argument that in all honesty in no way suggests tanking? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I guess the Canucks with their aging stars are going to go through this process of rebuilding whether the fans see that or not, but at this point it might be better to jump-start that process. As good as getting wins against weak eastern teams looks at the moment, they're pretty meaningless in this new playoff format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagorim Jarg Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Hits. The Canucks do not have a single player ranked in the top 60 in hits. Derek Dorsett leads the team tied for 65th in the NHL with 94 hits. The league leaders have 180-200. Want to know who is next in the standings on this team? Kevin Bieksa and Luca Sbisa tied at 123rd in the NHL. I'm sorry this seems to have fallen inbetween the cracks but you simply cannot ice an intimidating team and win with such passive play. Special teams are nice but you have to make yourself some space to play by throwing the bodies. Make guys afraid to descend on you in battles- there is none of that. Teams pile on us like it was a football game because there is absolutely 0 threat there. I say it makes more of a difference than special teams play. Drawing penalties: You don't when you aren't skating, instead of drawing some interference or hooking slashing by being out of reach the Canucks are happy to be a bit slower and not move feet, just letting stick checks in, and their passing isn't accurate enough to make up for their loss of speed. The puck should be moving faster than the other teams players when we control the posession but it rarely is and that is why there are fewer offensive opportunities than there used to be. You either make space by being fast, by having accurate passing, or by hitting alot, or by having a good amount of two of these things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagorim Jarg Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I want to see guys finish checks more often. The team stats are laughable and I see it consistently guys peeling away or bumping up against the opposition as if to nudge and say how's it going. Use them as a springboard or something, somebody needs to teach these guys how to impart momentum. Fly bys and howyoudoings are not going to make anyone any extra room. Remember Raffi Torres? People take for granted how important that presence is. This is what I find the most frustrating about Kassian. See him gliding staring at the play agape way too often. Guys with elite skill can glide when they have the puck and some space and the other team is backing off or they can avoid a check. They keep saying 'physical play' but it isn't just that the guy should be moving his feet ALL THE TIME and the only way he should be stopping or gliding is by making a hit. In other words doing one of two things- skating into somebody, or getting open. The only time to even think of gliding is the moment you look up to take a shot or make a pass, never while a teammate or the other team has posession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 #2. Now people will say that yes, but we are 10th in the league in Power Play %, and again, that is true, but is misleading, as the more telling stat is how many chances we actually get the Power Play compared to everyone else. In that stat, we are ranked 25th in Power Play Opportunities, which is a far more important stat. I'd like to know how the number of power play opportunities outweigh power play percentage in importance. All this really tells me is opposing teams do not take as many penalties when playing the Canucks but, when they do, we capitalize on it. If you compare it to other teams, more than half the other teams that have a higher PP% than the Canucks are in the bottom half in power play opportunities. I really think what happens is players realise how good an opposing team is on the powerplay, so they avoid taking penalites as it's on their mind during that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Hits. The Canucks do not have a single player ranked in the top 60 in hits. Derek Dorsett leads the team tied for 65th in the NHL with 94 hits. The league leaders have 180-200. Want to know who is next in the standings on this team? Kevin Bieksa and Luca Sbisa tied at 123rd in the NHL. I'm sorry this seems to have fallen inbetween the cracks but you simply cannot ice an intimidating team and win with such passive play. Special teams are nice but you have to make yourself some space to play by throwing the bodies. Make guys afraid to descend on you in battles- there is none of that. Teams pile on us like it was a football game because there is absolutely 0 threat there. I say it makes more of a difference than special teams play. Drawing penalties: You don't when you aren't skating, instead of drawing some interference or hooking slashing by being out of reach the Canucks are happy to be a bit slower and not move feet, just letting stick checks in, and their passing isn't accurate enough to make up for their loss of speed. The puck should be moving faster than the other teams players when we control the posession but it rarely is and that is why there are fewer offensive opportunities than there used to be. You either make space by being fast, by having accurate passing, or by hitting alot, or by having a good amount of two of these things... I'm hoping that prospects like Virtanen, Pedan, Tryamkin, etc make it onto the team and prove to be hitters. I think that's partially the intention of acquiring those players. I do agree that we need more hits. It's very possible that Kassian could grow into such a role as well, but the jury has yet to assemble in the court just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagorim Jarg Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Maybe if you actually read things your English would improve. I stopped reading at the barely grade school level writing but the sentiment in your first sentence is enough to ignore your content as well I'm not even reading the post to long sorry OP, if your looking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William_Clarkson Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Pretty much every thread you post has the same message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagorim Jarg Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 It's very possible that Kassian could grow into such a role as well, but the jury has yet to assemble in the court just yet. The jury is still out technically but I'm not convinced just by watching what he does when he doesn't have the puck. It almost seems like he really has no clue what to do next and when/if a play happens it's by accident. Some have called that 'creativity' but I'm willing to call it what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 Great Debate! Look here is my position on this #1...The numbers don't lie.......if you don't understand the numbers I can't help you #2...As someone said above..........the whistle gets put away in the playoffs #3...In no way am I ignoring our prospects, but if you think that Bo Horvat is a #1 center..well good on you..and he is our best forward prospect. #4. In general.......the NHL is full of 1st round picks.......disproportionately #5 Statistically.......elite prospects come from the top 10........again disproportionately #6. Even.....Even if we had 3 picks in the 2015 first round and 2 more in 2016....even if we did have all that, it will take time to ripen all those and the ones we already have.....we are in a different position than Detroit.....our previous GM's left our cupboard pretty bare, as well as being competitive for a long time......but really it was the drafting and trading away of picks #7. Let's address this "Tanking" notion.........as is, we may still end up with a 11 to 14 pick....it could happen even if we play at current levels with the current players............but what I am saying is, in 2 to 3 years, we will not have Hank or Dank, and Vrbata, Hamhuis will be 34 and a slightly above average #3/4, with no near the value he has now. we will have no one to take over for our #1 line..........do you see a #1 center...a number #1 lw and #1rw..........maybe one!. I.don't see any #1 defenseman either! #8........and make no mistake on this.......unless we trade youth for upgrades, we will be loser's next year regardless.....so much for having our prospects growing up in a winning environment #9. I am totally against trading any prospects for vets.........Totally against it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 At least I was being honest, and regards to my spelling I never paid attention in high school in English and I'm not afraid to admit it, I learned most of my spelling after high school on my own. I still don't know everything, and probably won't in my life time, but I really don't care, plus this is a social media board not a spelling test. Not everyone is the same in the world and it actually pisses me off on this site, where everyone compares people on here, because of their spelling, which is stupid. It's a discussion board, if you don't want to read the first post because it's too long then why bother replying? Are you going to just discuss what you think it's about based on the title? Good for you (seriously) if you've learned on your own after high school, but if you do reply, it suggests you'd want people to read your post as well. Why would they when you won't read the very first one in the thread you're replying to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagorim Jarg Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 In a discussion board your use of the English language is like your personal appearance in a first impression. Honesty isn't worth a damn when your post comes across like a projectile in a vomiting contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 The jury is still out technically but I'm not convinced just by watching what he does when he doesn't have the puck. It almost seems like he really has no clue what to do next and when/if a play happens it's by accident. Some have called that 'creativity' but I'm willing to call it what it is. This is why we need patience with these kind of players. It's about what he can potentially become. If one thinks he'll never get better, then one might as well not have any faith in the Horvats or the Virtanens, etc. It's not about the here and now. It's about the future. And just to clarify what I'm saying: He might not get better, but you can say that about anyone in the present. Horvat might not get better. Ekblad might not get better. Yakupov might not get better. All of those statements are possible and some may even happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 #1...The numbers don't lie.......if you don't understand the numbers I can't help you If that's your response to people debating your numbers, then I question your understanding of the numbers. This is like waving a white flag while pointing a gun with no bullets at the opposing enemy still. Laziness does not make you right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagorim Jarg Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 This is why we need patience with these kind of players. It's about what he can potentially become. If one thinks he'll never get better, then one might as well not have any faith in the Horvats or the Virtanens, etc. It's not about the here and now. It's about the future. And just to clarify what I'm saying: He might not get better, but you can say that about anyone in the present. Horvat might not get better. Ekblad might not get better. Yakupov might not get better. All of those statements are possible and some may even happen. I get that too, it's just that with many guys there is visible change in some way over time and the things about his game that I find frustrating have always been there, he's always had that (gliding without the puck and not getting open, not trying to hit like we know he can) in his game and it just shows so much when he's on one of the 3rd lines. I just want to see him do something about it, like you do, but what have we seen since 2012? He pronounced to the world he'd be impossible to remove from the lineup and since then he's been mostly invisible, for almost 67 minutes played over 5 games he's a -1 with 2 minors and 3 shots. Meanwhile Bo Horvat is quietly learning to be an NHL player instead. Matthias is proving to be a bigger smarter and more invested version of the Kassian role on this team so I think Kassian's days are numbered, unless he flips a switch. If he manages that then you have to wonder what's been going on all this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckNORRIS4Cup Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Maybe if you actually read things your English would improve. I stopped reading at the barely grade school level writing but the sentiment in your first sentence is enough to ignore your content as well Well take your own advice then and ignore me and don't respond to my posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckNORRIS4Cup Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 It's a discussion board, if you don't want to read the first post because it's too long then why bother replying? Are you going to just discuss what you think it's about based on the title? Good for you (seriously) if you've learned on your own after high school, but if you do reply, it suggests you'd want people to read your post as well. Why would they when you won't read the very first one in the thread you're replying to? I based it off reading the first line in his post about rebuilding that was enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I get that too, it's just that with many guys there is visible change in some way over time and the things about his game that I find frustrating have always been there, he's always had that (gliding without the puck and not getting open, not trying to hit like we know he can) in his game and it just shows so much when he's on one of the 3rd lines. I just want to see him do something about it, like you do, but what have we seen since 2012? He pronounced to the world he'd be impossible to remove from the lineup and since then he's been mostly invisible, for almost 67 minutes played over 5 games he's a -1 with 2 minors and 3 shots. Meanwhile Bo Horvat is quietly learning to be an NHL player instead. Matthias is proving to be a bigger smarter and more invested version of the Kassian role on this team so I think Kassian's days are numbered, unless he flips a switch. If he manages that then you have to wonder what's been going on all this time. If he flips a swtich, then he's learned something vital about his game. He's learned something that took him 2 years in the NHL to learn. That's great. That's why he's playing. I wouldn't exactly be asking "what's taken so long?" This is the reality with prospects and why we develop them from the start: so that they learn the game and flip that switch. Horvat's switch just seems more like a dimmer that's gradually being turned on. The biggest factor with Kassian I think is he's the kind of prospect that's almost irreplaceable. His potential is very different from most other prospects. IF he develops into his potential projection, he becomes a rare commodity that very few teams can say they have. I also think that uniqueness means he's more likely to develop differently from other prospects. It's easy to want to compare him to Horvat or our other prospects, but they are different players and it's been evident that need to develop differently in order to achieve their goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I based it off reading the first line in his post about rebuilding that was enough. And I based your post off your first line. That was enough as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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